Topic: Hey for the love of Satoshi can I PLEASE pay a tx fee? - page 2. (Read 4282 times)

Why is the maximum size for a block 500kB? Doesn't that pose a scalability problem?

Optimally I would say a bitcoind tailored to all merchants & service providers.  Something designed to communicate only via API and using an enterprise DBMS as its datastore and log output. 

While we are writing a wish list incorporate some method for strongly signing inter-node messages (Possibly using public/private keys).   That would allow my node to identify other nodes it trusts.  If Gox, BlockChain.info, and DeepBit all ways I received a 1-confirm tx I have a higher confidence I am not being subject to an isolation attack then is 6 random unknown and untrusted nodes (which may be the same attacker) say so.

sendmany would be probably something useful for deepbit + satoshi's dice...

There needs to be a bitcoind tailored for pool operators, so they can automaticallly include their payouts for free in their own blocks, set cutom fee inclusion rules etc.

Adding clarification on satoshi default dust & low priority rules.
Good idea on pool's adding a section for them.

Not quite right, I just had to look through my posting history for the appropriate informative post...

The above is for determining when a fee will be required by the client and miners that use standard Bitcoin rules. In addition, amounts below 0.01 always require the minimum fee (0.3.21).


There are also some odd rules mentioned in the Wiki that increase fees when the queue of transactions gets too deep. I haven't reviewed the Bitcoin code to comment further how these are enforced by miners and when sending in the client:
"If the blocksize (size of all transactions currently waiting to be included in a block) is less than 27 kB, transactions are free.
If the blocksize is more than 250 kB, transactions get increasingly more expensive as the blocksize approaches the limit of 500 kB."

The size of the queue of unconfirmed transactions waiting for inclusion is known by your client but can't be viewed. It can be seen here: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/txlist/. At this immediate moment, there are 2763 unconfirmed transactions (1454847 bytes). That would seem to me to be larger than the maximum blocksize indicated above, so the above rule about higher transaction fees may be kicking in on the miner's side for inclusion of transactions (but the client isn't prompting).

The amount of the per-KB minimum fee for low-priority transactions was reduced from .01 BTC to .0005 BTC in Bitcoin 0.3.22 (for relay and inclusion in blockchain) and Bitcoin 0.3.23 (when sending). The reduction decision was made when Bitcoin was $30 and increasing exponentially.

The problem clogging up Bitcoin is that xx dice is sending and resending and resending coins with no confirmations. It becomes a house of cards where hundreds of transactions are funded by earlier transactions still waiting for inclusion in the blockchain with some confirmations.

Pool withdraw fees can go into this list of "who's not paying fees" too. There are many "where's my deepbit withdrawl" threads, caused by deepbit not sending with fee, and sometimes even sending immature coins.

As I understand, the Satoshi client selects a fee based on transaction data size, priority, and dust outputs. Only the data size fee is user-selectable; the client will enforce a minimum fee on low-priority transactions and transactions with dust outputs, but high-priority transactions with no dust outputs can be sent with no fee if the data size fee is set to zero (at least, I think that's how it works).

Just FYI, easywallet.org includes always fee of 0.0005 BTC in the outgoing transactions. Maybe at later point I will add feature which allows to choose without fees.

Satoshi's Client has a set fee of 0.0005 BTC, although it enables you to "choose the fee". If you choose a lower one, youll get an error message once you actually try to send a tx. Sometimes you also have to pay more, like 5 times as much as the minimum fee (0.0005), dont know if that is somehow part of change?

Even though this issue has become a priority at this time only because of SatoshiDice, it is what it is. This is quite important now, we need better fee detection algorithm's and better fee settings.

afaik MtGox has a contract with Luke-Jr's pool for including its transactions.
so they dont need to pay a fee (dont know if they do)

Electrum client has adjustable fee.

I think the reason that no one gives users the option is because it is not supported in bitcoind. We would if it was possible.

Using settxfee opens up issues with concurrency errors. Say user1 sets a 0.0005 fee and user2 sets a 1 btc fee. RPC commands arrive at bitcoind in this order,

User1 settxfee
User2 settxfee
User1 sendfrom
User2 sendfrom

I would call that "fixed fee 0.0005 BTC".  Updated.

Not sure how you'd want to classify BitcoinSpinner (an Android app.) It charges a set fee of 0.0005 BTC per transaction, all of which goes to the miners.

We use a standard bitcoind with the coincontrol patch. Outgoing transactions use whatever fee it chooses, sometimes it is 0, other times it can be as high as 0.002, but the majority have been 0.0005.

If someone patches bitcoind so that you can set the fee in sendfrom, sendmany, or sendtoaddress please let us know because we are more than willing to add an option on our site.

Nice cite.  Updated.

MultiBit has an adjustable fee, minimum 0.0001 BTC.
All the fee goes to the miners.

SatoshiDice:

I am not 100% certain but looking over my tx history I have never seen a fee.   Still if I am wrong I will happily update the list.

My theory is that exchanges tend to have lots of old coins.  They can use old coins in outgoing tx (high priority) and overtime the new coins become old.  It worked fine until recently.  They got high priority without ever paying a cent (except maybe the occasional "spam" tx).  Now a tx w/ old coins and no fee may get bypassed for 2 to 20 blocks due to the number of unconfirmed tx with a fee.  


Yhe point of the thread was to create a discussion and hopefully encourage providers to give the users THE OPTION.  Sometimes I may want to pay nothing and be comfortable knowing it gets into the block eventually.   Sometimes like when paying a sale I want it in the next block.  Period.  If that takes 0.0001 or even 0.01 BT I would rather pay it then wait an unknown number of blocks.  Even if the default is no fee, users should always have the option of paying a fee (or an increased fee) otherwise they have no control over their transactions.

Are you certain the exchanges don't pay any fees to miners?