Topic: Hey Theymos, There Should Be a Demotion Button - page 3. (Read 1322 times)

OP looks like you are concerned that some members here did not worked hard to get merits and were promoted to higher ranks before merit system was introduced. But what benefit they have? If they are not able to get recent merits, they will not be accepted in current or new signature campaigns. This is because recent merits are requirements to get accepted in most of signature campaigns.

I can understand that these feelings might be coming because of jealousy and it is natural. We just need to behave more mature and be accommodating and kind to the world.

This has been proposed in various forms over the years but theymos has always been against them and for good reason. Certain people would just downvote posts by users they don't like regardless of how valid the post is.

As much as I do think the same regarding this suggestion, I believe that this suggestion came from a good intention and I do see what's the point of doing this but one thing that OP has missed is the human nature factor, when this system is implemented as you've already said will cause drama and more than that, this forum is going to be a wasteland filled with people doling out demotes/demerits to others and then retaliation from another, there's a lot that would probably survive the demotion abuse but there's even more that's going to be affected and I don't believe that it will even resolve what OP is trying to say that will solve using this system. Either people will leave this forum or the spamming would get even worse because they've got nothing left to lose.

As much as I agree with you that there are high-ranking members who don't live up to their rank, the demerit or demotion idea isn't it for me. It leaves so many holes to be exploited.
So what happens if along the line we have a disagreement and I feel disrespected and I decide to take the merit I gave to you? Or if I have the power to remote you and I do it because you said or did something that upset me?
We've heard of stories where people allegedly abused the trust system, so why do you think it won't be the same with the demerit or demotion system?

Also, merit is something you earned for a particular post. If along the line that the user does something silly, it doesn't make sense to take away what he has earned. If the offense is serious, he can be red trusted or if it required his account to be banned it would be banned. If it's not an offense that requires any of this but to you, the user spills trash most of the time, you can use the "ignore" feature.

This should also tell you that because an account is high ranking account doesn't mean the person is a god. They're just humans like you who have been on the forum way longer than you. Respect everybody. When you respect everybody, there would be no need to give some people special respect.
IMO, the ranking system is okay as it is.

It's really necessary to compare this forum with Altcoinstalks when you want to propose something? you need to know if Altcoinstalks is a copycat forum of Bitcointalk, not the other way around.

No worries, user who have de-merit isn't only one random user, the de-merited user can create a thread against the sender and if the sender is abusing de-merit, many users will meriting the de-merited user and there's a chance they would de-merit you.

 I read the opening lines of the Op's thread and I was really in sync with what he was saying till he got to the part where he said something along the lines of legendary ranked members posting like 12- year olds. That sounded funny but come to think of it, since the forum operates on anonymity, there's the possibility that an actual 12 year old could be behind the ownership of the account and again, what you might deem as shit post or not passing the message across enough could mean a lot to the next person.
 Secondly according to what a user pointed out, the Op made said suggestion simply because he was aggrieved and not because he wanted the progress of the forum and it's sad that he's acting up because he was called out on his posts.
Making provision for a demotion button in my opinion is totally unnecessary because it doesn't guarantee that those posters who don't make good posts will be flushed out, rather it will be a means for those who are eligible to use it and have beef with others to misuse it.
 @JollyGood was kind enough to bring out your alts, so should this demotion button be activated, don't you think you'd be most affected, Op? No need to drag unnecessary attention to your corner because you may not like the resulting effects when the whole thing is done.

What makes no sense is to presuppose veracity to what the OP says, and what you say is only part of it. He says:


From someone who has been caught breaking the rules, such as having joined campaigns with his alts and says this:


I wouldn't presume much veracity in anything. This thread and the other's responses are full of excuses of a little kid who has been caught red handed and doesn't know how to get out of the situation.

Well, if this is implemented then there would be a problem with it and I think someone will surely take advantage of it and abuse it to demote or demerit if it's about demerit button like they just don't want that forum member to rank up (there are good points to this though it's already a different topic so I won't delve further into that topic). Let's say it is implemented then I could just use it to demote your accounts or demerit your accounts if it is about implementing demerit button. What do you think what will happen to your accounts especially your account having negative trust already. For other forum members who already reached legendary rank and didn't start from newbie with merits required to rank up then it is because they are much earlier to be here in the forum even though they aren't posting high quality posts (not all though because some are even contributed to the forum). Anyway, if that really happen then all your accounts would be newbies right now and with negative trust score.

The merit system is enough to handle all the issues raised and it's handling them. The difficulty in ranking up will enable us not to have incompetent legendaries in the future. If there were others promoted to legendary before the merit system, they should enjoy it. I have read people proposed that all airdropped merits be retrieved, I don't support that, that is part of the forum history and shouldn't be distorted.
If accounts changed hands, it's also part of the system as no system is without a flaw. Besides, I do not think there are still good accounts without tags that are still up for sell these days. So, those few ones will extinct with time.

could be because the OP didn't want to be extremely obvious on what his motives are, I mean the fact that he left negative feedback on decodex after he exposed his alt account shows that he is pissed about what decodex did and this thread is just a continuation of that. but then again, I could be wrong since I am just making an assumption.

Since you created this thread with the intention of attention-seeking and not really because of the question you asked, I would like to ask if you have any opinion regarding what should happen to the following accounts (including your OP account) if any sort of demotion button were ever to be added:

~OddJobsForBitcoin
~Newchanka
~Michael63
~Cyberczar

For obvious reasons it might be difficult for you to take a purely impartial view on the above mentioned accounts but nevertheless your views would be interesting to read.

We have reputation and common sense for that. If an account has 1000 merits and is 7+ years old, then it is clear their merits were airdropped. You can also look on the merits that were earned in the last few months, to get a better picture.

Ranks exist for discouraging shitposting. Not for certifying competence.

I actually liked this idea but I don't think we need it here, for example on ALTT doesn't have a feedback or trust system like we (BTT) have, so what they do is deduct all of the karmas of spammers, just like there is a new case where 5 accounts were linked to single user and most of them were good profiles (means some are ranked) so what admin did is just reduced there karma (merits) to zero but no Trust or feedback (AFAIK). But here if you think someone is doing nothing, just trolling, no contributing, nothing no but sits with high merits then you don't have to demerit them for that because the merits they must have earned are on the posts that one might have found contributing.

But what you can do is give them neutral if that's according to the rules of the trust system. And what ratio do you propose, like 2 merits make 1 smerits so to give demerits (Dmerits) how many merits you should have, or you just be given the ability to demerit anyone, that will create more work for the moderators which I think they don't want, (just think). As merits, spamming is a thing and after this, they have to deal with the demerits of spamming too.

That's a good way to try and stay in the good books of reputable members but I'm not sure if that would work, especially after what Poker Player have posted.  

So we have two discussions coming from OP that backfired on him and exposed him, I could have agreed if it was coming from a different account and not from someone who got exposed, the timing is bad, I also like OP's idea but it seems there's a hidden agenda behind it.

I agree with the OP, but if that button will be used first on him and all his alt accounts that would have exactly 0 merit after that.

Considering that the story is repeated again that those who ask for some strange things (or make unnecessary excuses) actually draw attention to themselves and their shady actions, maybe someone will find some OP alt account that is permanently banned, and then we know what that means for all other accounts.

Happy hunting guys

Well, this explains a lot about why OP is dissatisfied with the current merit system and why he came up with this idea. Usually, people who are against the system are also the ones who are trying to abuse it.  I'm sure he would put his alt account farms to good use if we actually had de-merit or demote buttons.

Blackrock's interests are most likely the opposite of my own interests. That should not be a reason to do anything here.

That doesn't make sense, decodx created his account after the introduction of the Merit system, and earned all his Merit by himself.

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I created LoyceV's deMerit source application in 2018. TL;DR:
OP should read that topic.

This was my stand on the idea of demotion or deranking with emphasis on members that ranked up before the merit system was introduced and it still is today.

A demerit option is extreme and would definitely be abused affecting members all around the board.

This is not school or politics that ranks is earn solely through merits. This is a public forum dedicated for discussion anything about Bitcoin. Being an OG user is enough to become legendary due to the time they spend here in the forum. Not all people can be knowledgeable on Bitcoin because we can contribute in different ways here.

I believe you should look on the merit rather than the rank of you want to find a user that really knows  what they are talking. Demoting just because you didn’t like their opinion is nonsense and will make this forum more controlling.