Topic: High transaction fees - page 2. (Read 655 times)

Gotcha , you think blockstream can do no wrong.
Most Bitcoiners think that way.

As far as LN goes, keep your eyes on it,
in time it will be apparent to all , that only Banks are suitable to use LN, and since they will be running the LN hubs,
they will earn those fees, that you think they can't afford.

Have  a Nice Day. 

Higher Bitcoin price brings us higher transaction fees. No one likes that but U guess at the current Bitcoin transaction concept this is something that can't be avoided and some price has to paid.
However, I don't think that high fees are showstopper for Bitcoin and that it will not affect the overall volume of transactions.

Don't get too comfortable with any coin forked from bitcoin, and bitcoin isn't overrated, maybe you just don't understand or have a clue of why you should buy some, at this time there's no point arguing, you can just go to CoinMarketCap and choose between the 6,000+ altcoins we have in the market and buy one instead of fudding about bitcoin here.
also I don't see how bitcoins transaction cost will limit its growth in the future, a few months ago Ethereum was charging higher and no one said anything.

With high fees or funny LN you have no P2P transaction system any more

Introduces counterparties to pay, interface whatever nonsense

When you say 11 Sat/Byte in fee, how much satoshi is that and how much USD is that approximately?


So you could send a transaction right now with 2 sat/byte and it would work but take very long?

Yes, it is a higher transaction fee for smaller amounts.  BTC prices are high now,  The higher  price is a reson of higher transaction fee. However, I think the price and demand of BTC will not decrease due to its high transaction fees.  When we want to buy something with cryptocurrency, most of the time we have to pay with BTC. BTC is always in demand

Yeah.. a few hours back, some of my transactions got confirmed immediately, after paying as little as 11 Sat/Byte in fee. The Mempool is still quite bit, with 100 MB of transactions pending to be confirmed. But this is a big improvement when compared to the situation we had two weeks ago, when the size had swelled to around 250 MB. I hope everyone makes use of this opportunity to combine their smaller outputs, so that the fee can be reduced in the future.

4 sats per byte fees are now confirming. The mempool is much clearer than it’s been for some time, might be a good idea to consolidate smaller amounts now if you want to.

High transaction fees is something else, mostly on ethereum blockchain, the charge fees is too much, secondly, which Binance Smart chain has made it easy for Binance network.

At this point I understand that the trafficking in cryptocurrencies is getting much,so before this will come down according to op it will take some period of time, and I was told that while the fees is getting higher is because  of lack of developers but is not quite understanding that a developers determine the charges of any cryptocurrencies.

You've got a point. Buying and sending small amounts of BTC is not profitable. But for this cases you should use altcoins. BTC is for HODLing.

Even though you are starting to become offending, I will clear up things for you about Lightning:


If you are an enduser, you might want to open a channel for more than just 50$ and the fee to open that channel depends on what the actual fee for a btc tx is. So right now you pay about 1000 Satoshis btc tx fee to open a channel, which will save you alot of fees in the future.
You don't need to open a channel to every coffee shop you are going to, but you would have a channel open to a well connected node and all of your payments will be forwarded by that node to your favorite coffee shop (if he is also well connected to other lightning nodes which I assume)

Nobody incl Bitcoin cares about what this company and its individuals are doing (or not)


You don't understand Lightning. A transaction this big would cost a fortune on Lightning, because the fees on Lightning depend on the number of Satoshis you are sending, while Bitcoin transactions depend on their size in bytes. As I said, Lightning is a solution for the enduser and not for banks.

Hmm,
I know you are only 12,  it is stupid to pay $18 to lock up $50, which is why the LN coffee shop myth is blown.
Which was the point , junior.

Banks are the only ones, that LN or Liquid could ever be feasible to use , as they are the only one that make enough transactions between other banks that it could be viable at even $1000 onchain fees. They do still teach math to 12 year olds, or do you skip school alot?

Maybe you should ask Maxwell to explain it to you.
Blockstream is partnering with Banks to use Liquid.
https://www.coindesk.com/unpacking-the-avit-avanti-banks-new-digital-asset-being-built-with-blockstream

https://www.coindesk.com/in-first-pure-crypto-hire-silvergate-bank-recruits-blockstream-liquid-network-exec

FYI:
By Blockstream artificially limiting bitcoin onchain transaction capacity which keeps the fees high.
This gives them the potential to create profit for their company by creating offchain networks for banks.
Oh, you thought they made LN for the little guy, and you were wrong.  
No worries the banks will still drive the price of BTC higher, but don't expect to be sending alot of bitcoins onchain unless you are rich or a bank.

Who said banks would practically pay $1,000 for a “locking fee”? That’s based on assumptions, and your own biased assumptions at that. Bitcoin Exchanges, which should be, in my opinion, the biggest liquidity providers for Lightning has not adopted it yet.


Are you listening, or getting the context of AGD’s post? Who would be so stupid to pay $18 to open an channel for $50?

For the majority $1000 locking fee is a deal breaker,
but a bank can pay that $1000 locking fee and perform 1 million transactions with another bank in a month.
Which puts the banks cost per transaction at only $ 0.001 per transaction.
So for a Bank using LN, Bitcoin is still usable because of the # of transactions they can generate between other banks.
For the normal person, they make less than 50 transactions per month, and those are not between the same person or service.
Which is why LN or Liquid works best for Banks.

Now say you lock $50 away in LN for your Coffee shop, and you paid the current $18 transaction fee.
As you can see LN, already makes no sense for the normal person, due to overly high transaction fee.
You need to be sending like $10K worth of btc for a $20 transaction fee not to bother you, so the rich will use btc, but the rest,
hell, I just write a check and mail it off , or even pay with visa extra $5 fee and come off cheaper than LN with Bitcoin.
So LN won't be the solution for the little guy , LN & Liquid are the solution for the banks, which they probably let people open direct offchain accounts with then and use their LN Bitcoins, but that won't be any better for us than fiat was.

The solution for the little guys that wants to use crypto, is altcoin with ample onchain transaction capacity such as Doge, LTC, BCH, or any other altcoin that their developers have not artificially limited their blocksize and speed.

I agree with you, that a tx fee of 1000$ would make Bitcoin unusable. Not just for the lightning network, but for everybody. Now tell me, why should somebody (incl a bank) pay 1000$ tx fee? Just a rethorical question, of course nobody is going to pay a fee that high. Exactly because of this, your scenario is not going to happen, of course unless inflation ate the $ value and you pay 1000$ for a loaf of bread.

Bitcoin fees depend on people paying that fee, so we have a free market here, esp. when the 2nd layer (Lightning) fees are competing with the mainchain. Right now you can send Bitcoins for 4Sat/vb which is like half a dollar for an average tx and on Lightning this would be way cheaper.

Lightning is a solution for small payments, like buying a coffee and the mainnet has its advantages with big payments.

This has been a problem seen by a few people in the early conception of bitcoin. Perhaps Satoshi believed that bitcoin wouldn't be used as a store of value and instead as a full-pledged currency instead which of course will not cause problems with transaction fees. Then again if that's the case he allowed a very big flaw in his otherwise perfect invention. Hopefully some day someone does something about this, since if transaction fees reach 1k, lightning network wouldn't be able to help us anymore.

If the Bitcoin deposit/locking fee reaches $1000, then lighting would not be a usable alternative.
It still forces people into lower fee altcoins with ample onchain capacity.

Also if you look at Offchain Solutions such as lighting ,
to truly take advantage you need 100s to 1000s of transactions,
which the only ones that would have that many transactions monthly are corps and banks, not a normal person.

Which would be Lightning.

I can't agree with this. So currently the Bitcoin exchange rate is $50,000 per coin and the average transaction fee is around $20. You are saying that if the Bitcoin exchange rate climbs to $250,000, then we can expect a fee of $100 per transaction. And if by some miracle the price hits $1 million per coin, then the fee will be $400 per transaction. Are you really fine with this? Because I'm not. If the fee climbs to such levels, then I am afraid that I need to look towards other alternatives.