HODL mentality destroys the currency aspect of Bitcoin - page 8.

galkinn

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 07:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

Currently, everyone wants to be paid in bitcoins only but does not to spend his bitcoins. This will never result in mass adoption.

mostcrack

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 07:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

Exactly, people tend to hold their coins when the price is very low and if there is a very high rise, they will sell it on a large scale and continue like that, and there more precisely people are crazy about it very much money.
for me it will not be used as a legitimate payment tool to buy my favorite items with bitcoin, more precisely to invest only, for the real world there is Fiat.

komjhq

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Quote from: BUK2016 on March 24, 2018, 01:18:07 PM

Well, your submission is not far from the truth and that is the only factor that will help grow the market value of bitcoin not doubt.

I think that only positive information movement around Bitcoin can increase the demand for this coin, and it is tantamount to increasing its price. Well, while the popularity of Bitcoin is below the level, When it was back in 2017.

BUK2016

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Well, your submission is not far from the truth and that is the only factor that will help grow the market value of bitcoin not doubt.

eminemcookie

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Quote from: carlisle1 on March 23, 2018, 07:56:40 AM

Quote from: eminemcookie on March 23, 2018, 07:10:59 AM

Spot on and I don't think that will ever change, it's why I see bitcoin as becoming more in line with gold that is spendable. It won't be used as a daily currency but more for one off purchases etc. Unless the price was relatively stable this will always be the case.

yes mate,though i think this is not what satoshis plan,than this great coin will stay longer in wallets or storages than in market circulation,but we can't change the fact that this is what happening,and even OP if he will only be real and not hypocrite he will choose to hold bitcon than to sell it,and besides i see no wrong about this and i find this as reason why market goes high and low,

It wasn't, Satoshi's plan was for it to be used as a currency in the day to day sense but we are so far from that being a reality right now. The blockchain technology is great for facilitating digital currencies that can do that but the decentralized nature contributes in large parts to the price swings. I can make many arguments against central banks but one thing they are good for is controlling money supply to limit inflation.

pitiflin

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Quote from: Panda Trump on March 23, 2018, 04:46:14 PM

I think he means that the speculative mentality is destroying the currency aspect of Bitcoin: The fact that most of the people are buying Bitcoins only to sell them later.
Sadly, that does destroy the main purpose of Bitcoin and other CryptoCURRENCIES.

You say Bitcoin is being used very well as a currency, but that is just plain old nonsense.
Let me ask you this:
What do most people use currencies, like USD, EUR, etc... for? They buy things with it.
What do most people use Cryptocurrencies, like BTC, XRP, etc.. for? They buy it to make more money through selling it later.

See the difference?
Bitcoin isn't used very well as a currency. Not even close.

What can you do. People think of bitcoin as an investment. You can't change their minds and nor can I. People hate crypto currency, they think of it as a stock. Though not all people don't spend bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency for regular purchases, some make do.
Having said that, hodling is not going to help, and I say that instead of supposedly hodling, mobilize your crypto across the markets, the more liquid the markets get, better becomes our experience and people's stupid conspiracies and shit goes down for real.

seoincorporation

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I don't completely agree with you. Ok, you made a point here, but, to me, the point is btc is still "too young" in the market, for you can't buy or sell stuff by using it (yet). If we see something just like an investment or saving, we are not moving it, of course, so the price will not rise soon. In that, I agree. but I don't think the heart of the problem resides just on the "hodling situation", but on the alternative uses of bitcoin. As long as we become able to buy and sell, to access to common products of need by using crypto, it will be finally into the economy. But, for the moment, we need to wait 'till enterprises take the risk and btc actually becomes a payment system.
For now, this is just being used for trading or investing, and the hold problem is just a temporary result of the December's bubble, where many people bought bitcoin as an investment, and they just don't want to lose their money.
Now, the moment btc will be seen as a tool instead of an investment, well, it will change forever the game.

joebrook

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 07:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

That's very true, initially when most people didn't know that the value of bitcoins would be able to rise as more and more people started investing into it, then they got to know that bitcoins would be able to rise and they started to develop the mentality to hold rather than use it to purchase goods and services.

camito

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Yes, most of us user will choose to HODL bitcoin rather than spend it and use it as a currency to buy goods, etc. The reason why most of us do this is because we believe that it will rise and increase in more coming years. It's concept as a currency is not well used because of its volatility that makes it hard for users to let go of their precious satoshis and bitcoin. It is really hard to know when is the price going down or rise up to any level we don't expect, so people tend to just HODL it and wait for the right time they think is enough price to sell their bitcoins. With this concept, it looks like bitcoin is just a storage of fiat money which people converts to bitcoin and is converted back to fiat after earning big profit.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: darkangel11 on March 24, 2018, 10:33:27 AM

Quote from: TheQuin on March 24, 2018, 10:18:55 AM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 24, 2018, 10:07:05 AM

The only way to earn profit in this fashion is to sell your coins to someone else at an extra price. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that this process cannot keep on forever, and someone will necessarily be left standing holding the bag as in musical chairs.

I would expect Einstein to be smart enough to know that there are different possible scenarios as to how this plays out. We don't know whether Bitcoin will become a sustainable long-term asset or not. That's why it is a high-risk investment with possible high returns or losses. To say that the value of an asset cannot continue to rise in dollar terms is simply not true and flies in the face of data.

Our OP's understanding of cryptocurrency is very limited. It's possible he lives in an area where there's no adoption and you actually can't do anything with your coins. It's only hold or sell for fiat. Thankfully it's much different in other parts of the world where you can buy recharge your phone, order food, buty gift cards, shop at amazon and many smaller online stores. Exchanging for fiat is for traders, the rest of you should avoid fiat at all cost and either hold BTC or spend it.

If you have solid evidence that there is significant Bitcoin adoption among retailers and merchants who are accepting bitcoins while people actively spending a lot of bitcoins - or any other coins, for that matter - I'm all years, really. Obviously, the question is about genuine adoption, not pseudo-adoption when you seemingly pay with bitcoins but merchants still accept only fiat. Just provide reliable sources. You know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all that. And don't forget that in the end it all comes down to users actually spending crypto, not just someone officially accepting it. You simply don't buy bitcoins with fiat to spend them when you can spend fiat instead.

nightxglow

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It's true, i'm also the type that will hold my bitcoin, and if the price go down, i'll keep and hold my coin instead.
Of course i'll do that, and everyone else as well. Because we bought the coins in higher price, why should we sell them and get loss if in the lower price?
I think most people here invest to gain profits, it's very understandable and logic. We can't blame if people don't want to sell their coin and make the market drop. And there are many people that can't spend or use bitcoin because there aren't any way to do so, so the only thing to make use of bitcoin is as investment.

Bardman

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Only 2 types of people hold forever, idiots and people that forgot they had bitcoins. You can certainly see thousands of posts saying ''HODL'' and ''bull run incoming'' however most of them eventually do sell. Holding like an idiot isn't going to magically make bitcoin useful. If people stop buying then it's never going to reach 20k again no matter how many people hold.

Sir Cross

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Well that is the case because of the current condition that bitcoin is in. With high transaction fees and long confirmation times, it’s going to be hard to adopt bitcoin as a currency. It may be possible for bitcoin to function as a currency in the future however it is better to hodl it now. People choose to just buy bitcoin and hodl it because they know that they will profit in the years to come.

papashark

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Dont worry Mr. OP, not all people are holding their BTC. Just like me, I keep spending the half of my BTC payments I got from freelance design. BTC must circulate. I am using my BTC to pay my electricity, pay my bills, etc.

zigfridna

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 07:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

It is one of the biggest problems with bitcoins, it is not being used as a payment medium. Even the developers did not invented it to be used for investment purpose only.

Quidat

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Quote from: darkangel11 on March 24, 2018, 10:33:27 AM

Quote from: TheQuin on March 24, 2018, 10:18:55 AM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 24, 2018, 10:07:05 AM

The only way to earn profit in this fashion is to sell your coins to someone else at an extra price. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that this process cannot keep on forever, and someone will necessarily be left standing holding the bag as in musical chairs.

I would expect Einstein to be smart enough to know that there are different possible scenarios as to how this plays out. We don't know whether Bitcoin will become a sustainable long-term asset or not. That's why it is a high-risk investment with possible high returns or losses. To say that the value of an asset cannot continue to rise in dollar terms is simply not true and flies in the face of data.

Our OP's understanding of cryptocurrency is very limited. It's possible he lives in an area where there's no adoption and you actually can't do anything with your coins. It's only hold or sell for fiat. Thankfully it's much different in other parts of the world where you can buy recharge your phone, order food, buty gift cards, shop at amazon and many smaller online stores. Exchanging for fiat is for traders, the rest of you should avoid fiat at all cost and either hold BTC or spend it.

This would vary on case to case basis and as being mentioned usage of bitcoin would depend if the place do have a small range or big range of adoption.Its normal for us to use or spend bitcoin if we do saw that there are other options on how to use it instead on directly converting it.If theres no merchant or any services then the options would only be either hold or sell to fiat.

darkangel11

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Quote from: TheQuin on March 24, 2018, 10:18:55 AM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 24, 2018, 10:07:05 AM

The only way to earn profit in this fashion is to sell your coins to someone else at an extra price. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that this process cannot keep on forever, and someone will necessarily be left standing holding the bag as in musical chairs.

I would expect Einstein to be smart enough to know that there are different possible scenarios as to how this plays out. We don't know whether Bitcoin will become a sustainable long-term asset or not. That's why it is a high-risk investment with possible high returns or losses. To say that the value of an asset cannot continue to rise in dollar terms is simply not true and flies in the face of data.

Our OP's understanding of cryptocurrency is very limited. It's possible he lives in an area where there's no adoption and you actually can't do anything with your coins. It's only hold or sell for fiat. Thankfully it's much different in other parts of the world where you can buy recharge your phone, order food, buty gift cards, shop at amazon and many smaller online stores. Exchanging for fiat is for traders, the rest of you should avoid fiat at all cost and either hold BTC or spend it.

TheQuin

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 24, 2018, 10:07:05 AM

The only way to earn profit in this fashion is to sell your coins to someone else at an extra price. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that this process cannot keep on forever, and someone will necessarily be left standing holding the bag as in musical chairs.

I would expect Einstein to be smart enough to know that there are different possible scenarios as to how this plays out. We don't know whether Bitcoin will become a sustainable long-term asset or not. That's why it is a high-risk investment with possible high returns or losses. To say that the value of an asset cannot continue to rise in dollar terms is simply not true and flies in the face of data.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: KrishaBitcoin on March 23, 2018, 09:11:25 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 07:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

I think we should accept the fact that we joined Bitcoin as investment to earn more fiat for our future spending not as a currencies to be use for everyday spending. Holding our coins is the right thing to do in order for the Bitcoin demand to increase, to become expensive and earn bigger profit in the future not to dump it thru spending it.

This is a very simplistic approach which almost never works in real life for long, let alone indefinitely. In a nutshell, holding the coins works until it doesn't, and we may have already hit the roadblock. The only way to earn profit in this fashion is to sell your coins to someone else at an extra price. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that this process cannot keep on forever, and someone will necessarily be left standing as in musical chairs, holding the bag.

handsomes

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I think yes because if you see the many people hold the bitcoin for many years and the value raise up to higher than $20,000 or more the currency possible will appreciate because they are hardwork and patient.

Topic: HODL mentality destroys the currency aspect of Bitcoin - page 8. (Read 1033 times)