HODL mentality destroys the currency aspect of Bitcoin - page 9.

KrishaBitcoin

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

I think we should accept the fact that we joined Bitcoin as investment to earn more fiat for our future spending not as a currencies to be use for everyday spending. Holding our coins is the right thing to do in order for the Bitcoin demand to increase, to become expensive and earn bigger profit in the future not to dump it thru spending it. These is why i don't believe that fiat can be replace by Bitcoin except if the value will ratio to 1BTC is equal to 1$.

Sadlife

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It's because of your an idiot and decide's to sell out your bitcoin because of panic or FUD you will lose money instead. That is the concept of profiting. We tell people to hodl they're money cause bitcoin will surely recover and thus will enable them to profit when the price gets higher. That's is why it is important to hodl to actually regain the that you've lose money from the dips.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

Agreed, however, there's not much you can do to change that. It will always be like that, in almost any cryptocurrency. I'm both a holder and a trader, I keep a small amount of BTC and LTC aside while I trade Bitcoin on a weekly basis. Moreover, as you've already said, almost no one actually spends their Crypto on products or services, since that does not make sense.

Janation

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Quote from: ylnar123 on March 23, 2018, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

I guess not. Holding your Bitcoin or other crypto currency is a best way for them to earn in their investment. It would be dumb if you invest on something and you will not gain from it. If fell like selling your bitcoins at a lower price then go ahead and lead the pack. Just don't regret it in the future.

That is the point of the OP, Bitcoin is made so people can have the financial freedom and not really relying on the banks and other third parties in terms of transacting. It is made to be a currency but it ended up an investment. If you are Satoshi Nakamoto, and made the first digital currency on the Blockchain, what will you feel that you made a currency that ended up being an investment material? You see, it goes in the other direction.

I am not saying that I am not the same but I do HODL since I also want to earn some but what the OP's saying is really true.

Thirdspace

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

exactly, well said conclusion. but please don't give up hope yet,
as we nearing (in 20 years? Cheesy

) the maximum number coins mined, we will see some definite direction
either the price will stabilized and turned bitcoin (crypto) as one of many common used digital currencies
or... bitcoin will be the next substitute of gold for use as hedging and/or commodity
or the worst... bitcoin will dies slowly Cry

clickerz

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Quote from: Andrej Peiboski on March 23, 2018, 07:14:34 PM

The point is that many are betting on future growth, so they retain what they have.
And the others - those who bought in December - hope they can recover - sooner or later - the losses ....

This future growth, trigger people to hold their bitcoin. I am holding too because of this,because bitcoin is very promising. Once this regulations issues is addressed there a possibility to go up. Now, its stake on $8,000 range. When many are holding, demand becomes limited and prices will go high.

player514

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

I agree with this. Bitcoin needs to be used more often to be considered a currency. It's similar to gold when you think of it as a currency, but it's significantly more versatile than gold is. People have been using it to actually buy things, unlike gold more recently. However, I guess one benefit of "Hodling" is that bitcoin ends up being more like an asset. You can see it as a stock now, because there is supply and demand for it, and there are active exchanges that are willing to link those who want to sell with those who want to buy.

jameshowlett

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I used to think that holding bitcoin was a way to destroy its value. However, people do not think the same as me. They keep buying bitcoin and holding bitcoin as if it is gold. They believe that holding bitcoin can bring them a large profit in the future. Well, actually, it is not a bad idea. Bitcoin is becoming slowly and slowly day by day and it has no usage at all in the real world. People can not use bitcoin to make transaction anymore because it consume a big fee and take so much time to proceed

Tyrantt

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That's what I've been saying for quite some time now Grin

That's why I think that BTC will, most likely, abandon the whole crypto-currency idea and just become an investment asset. While some alt-coins will replace it as currency in various means of spending.

thefaucetrunner

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 01:00:18 PM

Quote from: TheQuin on March 23, 2018, 12:23:05 PM

You might find this an interesting read.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-16/bitcoin-bubble-or-hyperdeflation

It's a report about a research paper by Incrementum, an independent investment and asset management company.

The key point is they highlight 3 outcomes:

1.) Bitcoin Becomes A Store of Value
2.) Bitcoin Becomes A Store of Value and a Medium of Exchange
3.) Bitcoin Becomes Neither and Collapses

What you are observing is that at the moment Bitcoin is mainly a store of value (digital gold) and used a little as a medium of exchange (currency). It is very early to say where it will end up but I'd back scenario 2 in the long run.

Myself, I can't possibly accept this view, to wit, that Bitcoin is a store of value. If you bought the coins at 19k and right now you keep them at half that price, it is anything but a store of value. You are a bag holder by any appropriate definition, and someone who tries to persuade you to the contrary is either delusional or a hypocrite of the highest caliber. Comparing Bitcoin to gold is actually a disgrace to gold.

That's a good point. If you buy something at 19k and it drops to 8k, it has retained less than half its value and isn't "storing" the value very well. This is true for fiat currency as well however. Gold does share a great deal with Bitcoin. They must both be mined and the supply of both is dependent upon the investment in energy to mine it, which requires that there be sufficient reward for doing so. Consequently, the supply for both is fairly gradual over time. But gold is very mature and there aren't media frenzies over it like there are over Bitcoin.

dollarneed

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Quote from: SixOfFive on March 23, 2018, 07:33:15 PM

Rightly said, HODL has destroyed the real purpose of Bitcoin. BTC originally invented as the alternative payment source not as a Financial saving instrument. Rising Price of BTC made people forget the concept behind it and start buying and HODL it to earn huge profit.

This is so sad, in addition so many people used centralized exchange or service to transact with bitcoin which against the concept of the bitcoin. People nowadays prefer to HODL their coins rather than spending them, they will buy as much as they can then HODL waiting for the right moment and then sell it as soon as possible and the cycle will repeat, we can't force them to spend those coins since they have ultimate control over the money.

SixOfFive

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Rightly said, HODL has destroyed the real purpose of Bitcoin. BTC originally invented as the alternative payment source not as a Financial saving instrument. Rising Price of BTC made people forget the concept behind it and start buying and HODL it to earn huge profit.

Andrej Peiboski

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The point is that many are betting on future growth, so they retain what they have.
And the others - those who bought in December - hope they can recover - sooner or later - the losses ....

Jlimao28

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

Yes, because bitcoin is not just a means of currency. Bitcoin can be also a means of asset, storage of value and so on. The mentality of holding is just to prevent people from getting lost. And its up to the person who holds the bitcoin to spend it.

andreijoaquin

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

For me holding bitcoin does not destroy its being a currency, still people know what's the use of it, it was just that bitcoin is more than a currency which makes it a special one, it appreciative feature makes is more popular that's why many consider it as an asset. If bitcoin value is not fluctuating, I think it will be just a normal currency and will not gain the popularity it gets right now.

Panda Trump

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Quote from: pitiflin on March 23, 2018, 04:36:19 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

How exactly do you think bitcoin is bought if it's not earned. They are interrelated. And as for the currency factor of bitcoin, when people say they hodl, they don't hold it for 1 year or more than that. They do sell. They cash out. They buy back their investments. Hodl actually makes people more of a hypocrite than they already were. They say they hodl, they say they do shit but all they do is avoid losses. Bitcoin is being used very well as a currency, you'll get around how exactly as time flies.

I think he means that the speculative mentality is destroying the currency aspect of Bitcoin: The fact that most of the people are buying Bitcoins only to sell them later.
Sadly, that does destroy the main purpose of Bitcoin and other CryptoCURRENCIES.

You say Bitcoin is being used very well as a currency, but that is just plain old nonsense.
Let me ask you this:
What do most people use currencies, like USD, EUR, etc... for? They buy things with it.
What do most people use Cryptocurrencies, like BTC, XRP, etc.. for? They buy it to make more money through selling it later.

See the difference?
Bitcoin isn't used very well as a currency. Not even close.

richardsNY

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Gold is a speculative tool as much as it is a long term store of value tool, and that while it's actually a currency, but it barely enjoys any usage as such. It didn't harm its market at all, but enhanced it to the fullest extent. I think it's pretty safe to say that Bitcoin will follow this pattern in the coming years, because let's be honest, it has far more similarities with gold than actual fiat. I don't know how lightning network will change people's stance on the currency aspect, because being able to instantly move value from one place to another, and that at ultra low cost, is definitely a motivator to at least transact more. Obviously, time will tell, but I definitely believe it will give people more incentive to become more active in spending/transacting....

Koadharber

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Quote from: eminemcookie on March 23, 2018, 08:10:59 AM

Spot on and I don't think that will ever change, it's why I see bitcoin as becoming more in line with gold that is spendable. It won't be used as a daily currency but more for one off purchases etc. Unless the price was relatively stable this will always be the case.

Bitcoins price would never ever be stable which means we would really able to stay on the range on where bitcoin can really be compared and treated just much as gold.You can stop those people who do hold for the sake of profits for long term since they do know the capacity and capability of bitcoin when it comes to rising prices where they dont even think on that coins should circulate for it to progress even more.

pitiflin

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

How exactly do you think bitcoin is bought if it's not earned. They are interrelated. And as for the currency factor of bitcoin, when people say they hodl, they don't hold it for 1 year or more than that. They do sell. They cash out. They buy back their investments. Hodl actually makes people more of a hypocrite than they already were. They say they hodl, they say they do shit but all they do is avoid losses. Bitcoin is being used very well as a currency, you'll get around how exactly as time flies.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 23, 2018, 08:06:34 AM

However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Ok, I see what you're getting at, but take a different approach for a second. My coins are my investment, i have enough fiat to live by and knowing that it depreciates in value the obvious choice would be to spend it, not BTC. Looking at the big picture, my coins from 2014 have increased in value about 15 times (current price not ATH), so it gives me about 500% a year. Why would I get rid of something like that? Maybe if I had no fiat and was living in a 100% crypto economy...

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