How about this Bitcoinica strategy? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 07:49:25 PM

Quote from: notme on January 07, 2012, 07:28:21 PM

Displayed base price you are correct

Base price when you calculate in the loss from holding short all the way up to 18, cyperdoc is correct.

if the displayed base price doesn't change, that is misleading to the acct holder and could result in miscalculations if he doesn't know this fact.

and that doesn't change the fact that he should cover now if the price does indeed go straight up to $18.

The base price changes.
And this short account IS my cover.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: notme on January 07, 2012, 07:28:21 PM

Displayed base price you are correct

Base price when you calculate in the loss from holding short all the way up to 18, cyperdoc is correct.

if the displayed base price doesn't change, that is misleading to the acct holder and could result in miscalculations if he doesn't know this fact.

and that doesn't change the fact that he should cover now if the price does indeed go straight up to $18.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Displayed base price you are correct

Base price when you calculate in the loss from holding short all the way up to 18, cyperdoc is correct.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 07:21:48 PM

first of all, if the price goes to $18, your base price for this 1btc will come down.

I don't think this is correct. Base price only changes when you buy/sell.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 07, 2012, 06:43:31 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 06:15:29 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 07, 2012, 04:05:52 PM

Quote from: sgbett on January 07, 2012, 03:00:20 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 11:50:42 AM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 06, 2012, 04:03:12 AM

Quote from: notme on January 06, 2012, 03:49:10 AM

You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme. if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

Exactly. The idea is to keep my base price high on this account so I can have it locked & loaded when we reach the peak.

this still doesn't make any sense. if u think the price is headed to say $15, you're best off buying to cover this 1 BTC short, keeping all your profits in USD until we hit $15, then re shorting from there.

My base price isn't necessarily always this high ;-)

first of all, if the price goes to $18, your base price for this 1btc will come down.

if you then short 100 btc @ $18, your base price will then be less than $18, when added to the base price of the 1btc.

if u close the 1btc short now, wait until the price hits $18, then short 100 btc @ $18, your base price will then be $18.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: notme on January 07, 2012, 06:49:36 PM

I don't understand what holding the 1btc short gains you.

It's not necessarily 1btc. But to my way of thinking (which may be flawed, but I will find out through trial and error), it is easier to keep an open position with a known base price to work with, rather than guessing where to start. Because I am not good at tech analysis yet ;-)

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

I don't understand what holding the 1btc short gains you.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 06:15:29 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 07, 2012, 04:05:52 PM

Quote from: sgbett on January 07, 2012, 03:00:20 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 11:50:42 AM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 06, 2012, 04:03:12 AM

Quote from: notme on January 06, 2012, 03:49:10 AM

You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme. if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

Exactly. The idea is to keep my base price high on this account so I can have it locked & loaded when we reach the peak.

this still doesn't make any sense. if u think the price is headed to say $15, you're best off buying to cover this 1 BTC short, keeping all your profits in USD until we hit $15, then re shorting from there.

And that's exactly the strategy, but the way Bitcoinica works, it does not require you to close the position.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 06:15:29 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 07, 2012, 04:05:52 PM

Quote from: sgbett on January 07, 2012, 03:00:20 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 11:50:42 AM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 06, 2012, 04:03:12 AM

Quote from: notme on January 06, 2012, 03:49:10 AM

You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme. if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

Exactly. The idea is to keep my base price high on this account so I can have it locked & loaded when we reach the peak.

this still doesn't make any sense. if u think the price is headed to say $15, you're best off buying to cover this 1 BTC short, keeping all your profits in USD until we hit $15, then re shorting from there.

My base price isn't necessarily always this high ;-)

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 07, 2012, 04:05:52 PM

Quote from: sgbett on January 07, 2012, 03:00:20 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 07, 2012, 11:50:42 AM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 06, 2012, 04:03:12 AM

Quote from: notme on January 06, 2012, 03:49:10 AM

You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme. if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

Exactly. The idea is to keep my base price high on this account so I can have it locked & loaded when we reach the peak.

this still doesn't make any sense. if u think the price is headed to say $15, you're best off buying to cover this 1 BTC short, keeping all your profits in USD until we hit $15, then re shorting from there.

Otoh

donator

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1167

Ah home at last & I looked out of my total piece of shit & marvelled at the amazing crap to be seen there

mac auto correct for windows & vista

Otoh

donator

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1167

http://damnyouautocorrect.com/13603/the-25-funniest-autocorrects-of-dyacs-first-year/

sgbett

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1087

haha yes it must be. if i miss the 's' off applies it does become apple

Otoh

donator

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1167

"Of course this only apple for long positions."

apple - is that the mac auto correct, I've just got my first one & it keeps doing this, Gox it turns in to box etc

I expect as you say it wouldn't be a problem to move in to negative base price, I've put a limit sale order in for higher up the line though as until I close out the position I am still $567 down from my previous losses, though I'd be interested in any advise about why it might be advantageous to just hold it

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

My understanding of a negative base price is this: you have the bitcoins in the position for free, plus bitcoins*abs(baseprice) base profit. Therefore, your unrealized profit is this base profit plus the value of the coins.

sgbett

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1087

If I have the formulas right, then it means you can't get zhoutongued. Even if the price goes to $0. Your unrealised profit and loss is greater than the max possible loss you could incur.

Of course this only apple for long positions. Short positions are always at risk of zhoutonguing!

Otoh

donator

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1167

thanks for the tip, I may sell another 28 if when we go over $7 again just to see, then eventually limit sale the rest all as one lot as I don't have a clue what a negative base price may result in, yep originally I opened the long position after depositing 300 BTC for margin (about $1,000 att), I sent them back to Gox once there were sufficient unrealised profits to act as margin, basically it's now a play with the house's money or more exactly zhoutonged shorter's money, less $567 I paid in to cover leveraged losses from shorting with those 300 over thanksgiving in order to play round 2 with them & I do appreciate that while I was down that much Bitcoinica let it ride & didn't foreclose my 300 BTC as it was a week or 2 before I could raise that amount of $ to cover my gambling losses there

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: sgbett on January 07, 2012, 04:25:47 PM

otoh - if you sold 28 at that price your base price goes to ~$0.029

any more and it goes negative! (don't ask me, I'm just the messenger!)

sell 242 at that price and your base price will be -$1424.41
)

Yes, this is true -- I have generated negative base prices on my own positions at times. I don't know what this would mean, if anything -- maybe if you profit from there too much, you get Zhoutonged? Huh

sgbett

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1087

otoh - if you sold 28 at that price your base price goes to ~$0.029

any more and it goes negative! (don't ask me, I'm just the messenger!)

sell 242 at that price and your base price will be -$1424.41
)

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: mb300sd on January 07, 2012, 04:10:52 PM

Quote from: ineededausername on January 07, 2012, 04:09:57 PM

Quote from: Otoh on January 07, 2012, 03:15:28 PM

e.g. from selling down a previously leveraged long position

If I took this down to just 1 BTC the base price would be miniscule

Otoh: you have no margin balance.. how did you get that position?!

He must have cashed out after he opened the position, it lets you use your profit as margin

Right -- if you think the trend won't continue, or you just want to withdraw profits without closing the position, you can sell down some of your position (buy down when going short), which will lower your base price and lock in your profits.

Topic: How about this Bitcoinica strategy? (Read 3453 times)