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Topic: How about this Bitcoinica strategy? - page 2. (Read 3457 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Drunk Posts
January 07, 2012, 04:10:52 PM
#35
e.g. from selling down a previously leveraged long position



If I took this down to just 1 BTC the base price would be miniscule

Otoh: you have no margin balance.. how did you get that position?!

He must have cashed out after he opened the position, it lets you use your profit as margin
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
January 07, 2012, 04:09:57 PM
#34
e.g. from selling down a previously leveraged long position



If I took this down to just 1 BTC the base price would be miniscule

Otoh: you have no margin balance.. how did you get that position?!
edit: never mind, it's obvious now.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
January 07, 2012, 04:05:52 PM
#33
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.
The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme.  if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

Exactly.  The idea is to keep my base price high on this account so I can have it locked & loaded when we reach the peak.
donator
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1167
January 07, 2012, 03:26:46 PM
#32
I found all my limit orders were executed in a fast moving market at much better prices than I had booked them in for which was an unexpected bonus

edit: sry actually those were some market sell orders where I noticed this
legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1311
January 07, 2012, 03:24:07 PM
#31
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.
The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme.  if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

thanks for the clarification.

Proudhon:  notme is correct but do realize that liquidation means you'll accept any price to get out of your position even if it means a loss.  limit orders are more safe and allows you to choose at which price you want your order executed.

Thank you.  I'm going to mess around with limit orders now.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
January 07, 2012, 03:16:02 PM
#30
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.
The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme.  if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15

thanks for the clarification.

Proudhon:  notme is correct but do realize that liquidation means you'll accept any price to get out of your position even if it means a loss.  limit orders are more safe and allows you to choose at which price you want your order executed.
donator
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1167
January 07, 2012, 03:15:28 PM
#29
e.g. from selling down a previously leveraged long position



If I took this down to just 1 BTC the base price would be miniscule
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
January 07, 2012, 03:00:20 PM
#28
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.
The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme.  if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

He dint short at $18 (was bitcoinica open then?), he shorted at a much lower price and the closed out all but 1BTC

The way bitcoinica works is it recalculates the base price when you add or reduce a position.

e.g. Short 2BTC at $10, bid drops to $5
bitcoinica shows: Base price $10

Buy 1BTC @ $5
bitcoinica shows: Base Price $15
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
January 07, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
#27
Liquidate, or use a limit order to achieve the same.  When your position is back to zero, profits are "realized" and added to your reserve balance.
legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1311
January 07, 2012, 01:00:20 PM
#26
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.
The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme.  if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.

Super n00b question...When you say "close" do you mean "liquidate"?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
January 07, 2012, 11:50:42 AM
#25
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.
The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.

first of all congrats on what looks to have been a tremendous short from $18.

i agree with notme.  if u believe we're headed back up towards $18, why not close the 1 BTC short now, then re short @ $18?

in fact, if you had closed this 1 BTC short @ $2, you would have made an additional profits by this point.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
January 07, 2012, 11:28:50 AM
#24
Best Bitcoinica strategy = owning it.

Whats the best way to rob a bank?  Own It.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
January 07, 2012, 06:21:30 AM
#23
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=1j0o0m1qhmfdqdn

I thought it was rather clever, considering where I think price is headed.  Whaddya think?


Looks like you found a way to game the system.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
January 06, 2012, 01:51:23 PM
#22
My general strategy is to take an expected future value, something simple like a linear interpolation from the past week or so. When the price jumps higher sell, when it's lower buy, but only a little bit. In the inevitable situation that the price jumps again, sell/buy more. Make sure you have enough reserves to double down 3 or 4 times. If you predict it wrong 4 times in a row, well then you lose.
That's called Martingale strategy and is an absolutely certain (probability=100%) way for anyone to go bust. Read any book on trading.

I would say this is gambler's strategy.

With unlimited reserves and zero trade commissions, your overall winning is guaranteed.

With limited reserves and some trade commissions, your overall losing is guaranteed.

The chance of blind predicting wrong 4 times in a row is 1/16 and you would lose the entire investment. The profit of predicting correctly after 1, 2 or 3 jumps will always be less than 1/16 of your entire investment.

So:

P=15/16 -> profit less than 1/16
P=1/16 -> lose 1


...assuming that jumps are random independent unrelated events. But they aren't.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
January 06, 2012, 04:17:16 AM
#21
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

This is a short position, I bought back all but 1 at the bottom of the spike.  The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.
I'm hoping that I understand the forced liquidation calculations enough to keep this hedging account from getting Zhoutonged.

  The profit is not really the point here; you could say I already locked in this profit by buying back in all but one.  AT least that's the way I'm understanding it right now -- I am very sleep deprived though.

Corrections are welcome, suggestions too.

I was making the (sarcastic) suggestion we would be passing $18 soon.  I believe your strategy is valid, although I don't see why you don't close out your position at the bottom and convert the profits to btc.

Reducing the position to one sort of "locks in" profits up to that point, then if the market surprises you you can use that last one to scrape out additional profits  Grin

A 1 BTC short position will earn you a whole 20 cents for every 20 cent price drop.  If you believe it's the bottom, why lock in your profits in USD instead of BTC?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
January 06, 2012, 04:14:11 AM
#20
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

This is a short position, I bought back all but 1 at the bottom of the spike.  The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.
I'm hoping that I understand the forced liquidation calculations enough to keep this hedging account from getting Zhoutonged.

  The profit is not really the point here; you could say I already locked in this profit by buying back in all but one.  AT least that's the way I'm understanding it right now -- I am very sleep deprived though.

Corrections are welcome, suggestions too.

I was making the (sarcastic) suggestion we would be passing $18 soon.  I believe your strategy is valid, although I don't see why you don't close out your position at the bottom and convert the profits to btc.

I did close it :-)
Reducing the position to one sort of "locks in" profits up to that point, then if the market surprises you you can use that last one to scrape out additional profits  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
January 06, 2012, 04:07:18 AM
#19
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

This is a short position, I bought back all but 1 at the bottom of the spike.  The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.
I'm hoping that I understand the forced liquidation calculations enough to keep this hedging account from getting Zhoutonged.

  The profit is not really the point here; you could say I already locked in this profit by buying back in all but one.  AT least that's the way I'm understanding it right now -- I am very sleep deprived though.

Corrections are welcome, suggestions too.

I was making the (sarcastic) suggestion we would be passing $18 soon.  I believe your strategy is valid, although I don't see why you don't close out your position at the bottom and convert the profits to btc.
legendary
Activity: 1692
Merit: 1018
January 06, 2012, 04:06:18 AM
#18
My general strategy is to take an expected future value, something simple like a linear interpolation from the past week or so. When the price jumps higher sell, when it's lower buy, but only a little bit. In the inevitable situation that the price jumps again, sell/buy more. Make sure you have enough reserves to double down 3 or 4 times. If you predict it wrong 4 times in a row, well then you lose.

Have you ever played roulette?  On a French wheel you have approximately a 48% chance of winning by betting on red/black, high/low, etc.  I have seen someone lose 10 spins in a row.  Very unlikely, but it did occur.  Imagine if they tried to Martingale their bets.  They would either run out of money really quickly, or (100% likelyhood) hit the table's bet limit.

"In the inevitable situation that the price jumps again".  Why is it inevitable?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
January 06, 2012, 04:03:12 AM
#17
You should buy back in before your profit evaporates.

This is a short position, I bought back all but 1 at the bottom of the spike.  The idea is to keep it open so that when we spike back up, I can sell again, then buy out when we spike down again, lather rinse repeat.
I'm hoping that I understand the forced liquidation calculations enough to keep this hedging account from getting Zhoutonged.

  The profit is not really the point here; you could say I already locked in this profit by buying back in all but one.  AT least that's the way I'm understanding it right now -- I am very sleep deprived though.

Corrections are welcome, suggestions too.
vip
Activity: 490
Merit: 502
January 06, 2012, 03:56:37 AM
#16
My general strategy is to take an expected future value, something simple like a linear interpolation from the past week or so. When the price jumps higher sell, when it's lower buy, but only a little bit. In the inevitable situation that the price jumps again, sell/buy more. Make sure you have enough reserves to double down 3 or 4 times. If you predict it wrong 4 times in a row, well then you lose.
That's called Martingale strategy and is an absolutely certain (probability=100%) way for anyone to go bust. Read any book on trading.

I would say this is gambler's strategy.

With unlimited reserves and zero trade commissions, your overall winning is guaranteed.

With limited reserves and some trade commissions, your overall losing is guaranteed.

The chance of blind predicting wrong 4 times in a row is 1/16 and you would lose the entire investment. The profit of predicting correctly after 1, 2 or 3 jumps will always be less than 1/16 of your entire investment.

So:

P=15/16 -> profit less than 1/16
P=1/16 -> lose 1
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