How bitcoins get confiscated? | Bitcointalksearch.org

spazzdla

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Quote from: jjacob on April 02, 2015, 08:57:34 PM

Quote from: yvv on April 02, 2015, 08:53:35 PM

A red-hot soldering bar in the ass of bitcoin holder makes miracles. )))

We are assuming that most modern governments (at least the US) wouldn't use violence/threat of violence to extract information.
At least from what we have heard until now, the seizure of bitcoins has been due to mistakes committed by the holders.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH

LMAO OHH BAHAHAHAHAHA.

That was a good one.

(Yes they will and they will use things you can't even imagine in darkest depths of your brain)

The guys in charge and their pigs are the worst types of humans on the planet.. many get off to watching you scream in pain.

Wary

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Quote from: OROBTC on April 06, 2015, 12:54:36 PM

...

Scatter your Bitcoin around to at least four wallets ( I would have two or so online and two or so on hardware like Ledger or Trezor). Save two of them (say) for .gov when they come calling. And have other BTC hidden away. Make sure they are mixed to cover the trail.

When The Man starts threatening, give up the smaller wallets (if you have covered your trail well).

Almost NO ONE can withstand torture. If giving away the decoy BTC wallets does not stop .gov, then nothing will. Once the torture starts for real, you would give them the others.

But, it is worth a try to let them have the decoys first.

To save yourself from torture, don't let anybody know (or even suspect) that you may have coins.
To protect coins from extracting by torture, use
-Timelock, set for years
-Multisig, with co-signers out of reach of police.

Wary

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Quote from: Shogen on April 06, 2015, 01:38:21 PM

Quote from: chmod755 on April 06, 2015, 01:05:41 PM

Quote from: OROBTC on April 06, 2015, 12:54:36 PM

Almost NO ONE can withstand torture. If giving away the decoy BTC wallets does not stop .gov, then nothing will. Once the torture starts for real, you would give them the others.

But, it is worth a try to let them have the decoys first.

If I was working in law enforcement I guess I would tell my co-workers to increase the use of torture against Bitcoin users who are under investigation for serious crimes after reading your post.

This comic strip comes to my mind right after reading OP's post. Tongue

Probably because one of answer options was the 5$ wrench

Shogen

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Quote from: chmod755 on April 06, 2015, 01:05:41 PM

Quote from: OROBTC on April 06, 2015, 12:54:36 PM

Almost NO ONE can withstand torture. If giving away the decoy BTC wallets does not stop .gov, then nothing will. Once the torture starts for real, you would give them the others.

But, it is worth a try to let them have the decoys first.

If I was working in law enforcement I guess I would tell my co-workers to increase the use of torture against Bitcoin users who are under investigation for serious crimes after reading your post.

This comic strip comes to my mind right after reading OP's post. Tongue

chmod755

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Quote from: OROBTC on April 06, 2015, 12:54:36 PM

Almost NO ONE can withstand torture. If giving away the decoy BTC wallets does not stop .gov, then nothing will. Once the torture starts for real, you would give them the others.

But, it is worth a try to let them have the decoys first.

If I was working in law enforcement I guess I would tell my co-workers to increase the use of torture against Bitcoin users who are under investigation for serious crimes after reading your post.

OROBTC

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...

Scatter your Bitcoin around to at least four wallets ( I would have two or so online and two or so on hardware like Ledger or Trezor). Save two of them (say) for .gov when they come calling. And have other BTC hidden away. Make sure they are mixed to cover the trail.

When The Man starts threatening, give up the smaller wallets (if you have covered your trail well).

Almost NO ONE can withstand torture. If giving away the decoy BTC wallets does not stop .gov, then nothing will. Once the torture starts for real, you would give them the others.

But, it is worth a try to let them have the decoys first.

El Emperador

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Easy scenario: the BTC owner puts his wallet ( core, multibit, electrum ) on an external Hard disk or on his computer hard disk.
The police simply seizes the whole hardware.

MegaFall

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Quote from: coinableS on April 02, 2015, 08:57:38 PM

This is how you confiscate bitcoins:

"You know you are facing 20-25 years, right?! If you co-operate and provide us with your bitcoins we will make sure you only see 5 years in prison. If you don't play ball, we will also charge you with obstruction of justice and that will get you another 10 years".

And that's when you implement your 5th amendment right... oh, yeah they arbitrarily got rid of that without passing a new amendment. "obstruction of justice" charges are blatant violations of the 5th amendment. The government just doesn't give a fuck.

Wary

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Quote from: ed_teech on April 06, 2015, 03:47:12 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ed_teech on April 05, 2015, 03:28:59 AM

They simply can't confiscate anything unless they are given the private keys. Theoretically impossible.

That's what some people commenting here fail to understand. None of the confiscated Bitcoins were taken by force, i.e. cracked. I doubt they (the authorities) would even try to break into your wallet. They would rather pressure you into giving it up, just as they did with DPR.

That is different. Imagine a criminal who stole some BTC from you. If he/she gets killed during the arrest, the government can't possibly give your BTC back.

What percentage of your income were stolen from you by criminals, then taken from them by government and returned to you?
Compare it with percentage of your income that is taken by government as taxes.

ed_teech

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Jahaha

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ed_teech on April 05, 2015, 03:28:59 AM

They simply can't confiscate anything unless they are given the private keys. Theoretically impossible.

That's what some people commenting here fail to understand. None of the confiscated Bitcoins were taken by force, i.e. cracked. I doubt they (the authorities) would even try to break into your wallet. They would rather pressure you into giving it up, just as they did with DPR.

That is different. Imagine a criminal who stole some BTC from you. If he/she gets killed during the arrest, the government can't possibly give your BTC back.

IDKwhatimdoing

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Easy: the owner of the coins is tortured for the password Grin

Or yes, the security is very low in some cases...

harrymmmm

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Quote from: jjacob on April 02, 2015, 08:47:54 PM

Quote from: Lorenzo on April 02, 2015, 07:45:28 PM

When the feds confiscated Ross Ulbricht's coins, what they actually got were the coins held by users of the site. His personal coins were protected with far better security and despite their best attempts, they are still inaccessible to this day:

Quote from: The Guardian

When Ross Ulbricht, known as Dread Pirate Roberts to users of the site, was arrested last week, the FBI seized 26,000 Bitcoins belonging to Silk Road customers. But it also attempted, unsuccessfully, to claim the nearly 600,000 - thought to be worth around $80m - which Ulbricht himself is thought to be holding...

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/07/fbi-bitcoin-silk-road-ross-ulbricht

The number of bitcoins seized from Ross' computer is definitely more than 26,000. It was 144,000 coins. The silkroad coins were sold immediately, while Ross' personal coins were sold at a later stage. The sale of silkroad coins was immediate, while the sale of Ross' coins hinged on the government being able to produce enough evidence to convict him.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2015/02/18/following-silk-road-trial-u-s-marshals-to-auction-off-nearly-12-million-of-ulbrichts-bitcoin/

The government and Ulbricht agreed to the sale of these Bitcoins on January 27, 2015, during Ulbricht’s trial in New York City. One week later, Ulbricht was found guilty of seven drug trafficking and money laundering charges after only 3.5 hours of jury deliberation. Had Ulbricht been found not guilty, the money earned by the government in the auction would have been returned to him in cash. Instead, the money will go to the Department of Justice’s asset forfeiture fund, according USMS spokesperson Lynzey Donahue.

The silk road coins were sold in June, 2014. ok.
But the first of ross's coins were auctioned in Dec, 2014. Before the trial.
As I recall, there was a statement somewhere that said he agreed to this at the beginning of 2014. It also said the proceeds were to be held in escrow, etc.

calme

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Powerful government types would typically view bitcoiners as stupid liberals/libertarians. The government types are typically neither party of the sort. Studies both in the UK and abroad have shown republican brains to be biologically wired differently and that they're generally more forceful, more impulsive and typically less intelligent. I'd wager they're less creative and open minded as well. No need to categorize humans into just a couple or few political parties but it does demonstrate that we're not dealing with our own kind. Basically, they're thieving aliens who do onto liberals/libertarians what liberals/libertarians would be less likely to do onto others.

ed_teech

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Jahaha

They simply can't confiscate anything unless they are given the private keys. Theoretically impossible.

fox19891989

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Police will ask criminals password according to the laws, the dirty money must be confiscated, that's normal.

Not only BTC, if criminals have bank accounts, they(court) will freeze the account and money.

yvv

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Quote from: jjacob on April 04, 2015, 07:07:22 PM

Quote from: teukon on April 03, 2015, 01:53:13 AM

Quote from: jjacob on April 02, 2015, 08:57:34 PM

We are assuming that most modern governments (at least the US) wouldn't use violence/threat of violence to extract information.

Where did you get that idea from? The US is pretty big on torture all things considered.

Even for white collar crimes? If you are suspected of being part of Al-Qaeda, then it is a different story.
Wasn't Guantanamo Bay set up because they couldn't torture prisoners on US soil?

You are so naive. Guantanamo is not a prison, it is a concentration camp. People are kept there with no legitimate grounds there. This would be possible, but more difficult under US jurisdiction.

As for tortures, interrogators do not care, who the fuck are you, white collar, or rainbow ass. They use the same tactics against everybody: kind interrogator changes rough interrogator. They repeat the cycle until a subject of interrogation brakes.

Blackbird0

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on April 03, 2015, 06:45:28 PM

Quote from: yeponlyone on April 03, 2015, 07:49:44 AM

The person might not have used a password on the wallet. Even if used, the person must not secure it with weak algorithm or guessable passwords like your cat's name or your mother's name. Usually, the person has to turn over the Bitcoins if not additional charges might get pressed.

Well a good password would help against hacking, but if the goverment forces want to get in and you don't tell your password I assume you would get into trouble anyway?

If the government served a subpoena duces tecum on you to provide an unecrypted wallet.dat or to simply provide a wallet password, and one refused the grand jury subpoena, one could be found in contempt of court and imprisoned for the duration of the session of the grand jury that is sitting. At least, that's my tentative thinking on the matter.

jjacob

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★Nitrogensports.eu★

Quote from: teukon on April 03, 2015, 01:53:13 AM

Quote from: jjacob on April 02, 2015, 08:57:34 PM

We are assuming that most modern governments (at least the US) wouldn't use violence/threat of violence to extract information.

Where did you get that idea from? The US is pretty big on torture all things considered.

Even for white collar crimes? If you are suspected of being part of Al-Qaeda, then it is a different story.
Wasn't Guantanamo Bay set up because they couldn't torture prisoners on US soil?

XCASH

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Quote from: countryfree on April 04, 2015, 01:40:12 PM

It's becoming more and more common that police seizes all computer equipment. A quick check will reveal if there's some kind of BTC software in it (or frequent connections to blockchain.info), and if there's any, they will dig further.

That would work for most legit bitcoin users who don't bother covering their tracks. However, the bad guys are likely to go to extreme lengths to cover their tracks and hide their wallets/keys from seizure.

Mikestang

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Quote from: Cult on April 03, 2015, 06:01:23 PM

Quote from: Mikestang on April 03, 2015, 05:16:00 PM

It's called asset seizure. The feds coming in and confiscate ALL of your possessions that they can link to your crime. They don't need ~~much~~ any evidence, just a feeling that the property was acquired through ill-gotten means and they take it from you. You do not have a choice. You don't get to "hide some for later". I've watched this happen first hand to a life-long family friend and it's not pretty. They say "You got XYZ by being a bad guy, so we're taking it from you." and there's not really anything you can do about it.

That's just stupid, the burden of proof is on the side of the accusation, if you can prove your stuff was legitimately obtained, it will be returned.

Do you keep receipts for everything you own? Most people don't. What you say is, in theory, how it should work, but in real life it doesn't.

Topic: How bitcoins get confiscated? (Read 3036 times)