How can exchanges find out Bitfinex funds if "hacker" runs them throught mixers?

Katadin

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Quote from: Patatas on September 16, 2016, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: pereira4 on August 06, 2016, 10:29:17 AM

So in this situation... how can they find them? I wish they find them and people can recover funds but what if he runs coins through mixers?

Tracing coins through exchanges will lead you nowhere!The source of incoming coins would still be hidden if they're not part of a famous wallet which I believe hacker will be smart enough to not list any details on the blockchain.By now,the coins would be mixed already and maybe even I've a part of it bought through exchanges.

If the exchanges can cooperate with the authority, it will help a lot to find the criminals and the hacking will reduce.

Patatas

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Quote from: pereira4 on August 06, 2016, 10:29:17 AM

So in this situation... how can they find them? I wish they find them and people can recover funds but what if he runs coins through mixers?

Tracing coins through exchanges will lead you nowhere!The source of incoming coins would still be hidden if they're not part of a famous wallet which I believe hacker will be smart enough to not list any details on the blockchain.By now,the coins would be mixed already and maybe even I've a part of it bought through exchanges.

veleten

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don't you think mixer services are not exactly swiss banks
oh wait ...even swiss banks are obliged to give their customer's account info to the authorities nowadays
long gone the times when the anonimity of your deposit and identity was the swiss banks trademark
what I'm trying to say,that there are concrete people behind every mixer service and sometimes they just could not say no to guys with guns and FBI or ANB
letters on their vests

TraderETH

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I think exchange can not find out if hacker use bitcoin mixing services, it will be hard to track and bitcoin mixing services will not give their users who has done bitcoin mixing. It is just my opinion if It is happening.

amacar2

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Quote from: Bitcoinpro on September 15, 2016, 03:08:48 AM

If they where hacked it means that somehow the private keys where hacked

who on earth would put the private keys online anyway, surely for a meagre

amout of funds and to do some automation some private keys would be online

though the majority should be in paper wallets inside safes with insurance,

The way bitfinex was hacked was not published yet by bitfinex which make it quite doubtful that it may be hack by some insider. How bitfinex can be so careless in putting funds in online storage from which it can easily get hacked.

n691309

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Quote from: pereira4 on August 06, 2016, 10:29:17 AM

If a mixer receives coins that are from a known theft, as far as I know they remain neutral to the whole thing and limit themselves to do their job (mix the coins). There are certain sites like Helix that as far as I know are fully automatized, run on a onion tor website and deliver clean coins, after that I would say it's impossible to find, so he would proceed to sell in exchanges. Of course if he isn't a total idiot, he will not dump and will sell slowly so he doesn't get caught.

So in this situation... how can they find them? I wish they find them and people can recover funds but what if he runs coins through mixers?

The mixers does not have the potential to mix all the bitcoins that were hacked so probably the hacker will start mixing the hacked bitcoin by starting with a small amounts so they can't be traced, I don't think that the bitcoin mixers will blacklist these addresses like the exchanges because they have profit from this.

Bitcoinpro

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If they where hacked it means that somehow the private keys where hacked

who on earth would put the private keys online anyway, surely for a meagre

amout of funds and to do some automation some private keys would be online

though the majority should be in paper wallets inside safes with insurance,

Katadin

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Quote from: Kprawn on September 03, 2016, 10:25:01 AM

Quote from: Katadin on September 03, 2016, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: marky89 on August 20, 2016, 03:26:57 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on August 06, 2016, 12:25:09 PM

It's hard to do that, considering that Bitcoin is anonymous. And I think that they won't use that kind of public service, they will probably make their own mixer and use it by their own.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. It's pseudonymous. While an address is not by definition linked to a human identity, it certainly can be in many ways if a user is not very careful to cover all tracks.

Making your own mixer with that amount of hot coins would just put a target on your back when everyone realizes that you're delivering tainted coins from the Bitfinex heist to your customers.

So it is better to use a existing big mixing service. But how can you make your coin safe without being identified by the mixer?

The mixer service will not reveal your identity to anyone, if they not forced to do that through legal means. So your coins are safe, if you send it

through these mixers. Even if your coins are clean, it might be mixed with coins that were acquired by illegal means... Nobody knows where their

money came from and how it was used, and this fits with what is happening with fiat money too. Freshly mined coins are the only clean coins. Roll Eyes

Which authority can force the mixer to reveal the identity of the users? Can the police in China to force them?

Kprawn

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Quote from: Katadin on September 03, 2016, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: marky89 on August 20, 2016, 03:26:57 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on August 06, 2016, 12:25:09 PM

It's hard to do that, considering that Bitcoin is anonymous. And I think that they won't use that kind of public service, they will probably make their own mixer and use it by their own.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. It's pseudonymous. While an address is not by definition linked to a human identity, it certainly can be in many ways if a user is not very careful to cover all tracks.

Making your own mixer with that amount of hot coins would just put a target on your back when everyone realizes that you're delivering tainted coins from the Bitfinex heist to your customers.

So it is better to use a existing big mixing service. But how can you make your coin safe without being identified by the mixer?

The mixer service will not reveal your identity to anyone, if they not forced to do that through legal means. So your coins are safe, if you send it

through these mixers. Even if your coins are clean, it might be mixed with coins that were acquired by illegal means... Nobody knows where their

money came from and how it was used, and this fits with what is happening with fiat money too. Freshly mined coins are the only clean coins. Roll Eyes

traderbit

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Quote from: Katadin on September 03, 2016, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: marky89 on August 20, 2016, 03:26:57 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on August 06, 2016, 12:25:09 PM

It's hard to do that, considering that Bitcoin is anonymous. And I think that they won't use that kind of public service, they will probably make their own mixer and use it by their own.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. It's pseudonymous. While an address is not by definition linked to a human identity, it certainly can be in many ways if a user is not very careful to cover all tracks.

Making your own mixer with that amount of hot coins would just put a target on your back when everyone realizes that you're delivering tainted coins from the Bitfinex heist to your customers.

So it is better to use a existing big mixing service. But how can you make your coin safe without being identified by the mixer?

Nowdays there aren't many bitcoin mixer but some that I know are bitcoinfog, bitmixer, cryptomixer and a mixer with .se domain(can't remember now), but how it works are that you send your coins to bitcoinmixer and they send you coins that someone else sent to them, so your coins will go to somewhere else and someone's else coins will go to you minus the mixer fees.

Katadin

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Quote from: marky89 on August 20, 2016, 03:26:57 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on August 06, 2016, 12:25:09 PM

It's hard to do that, considering that Bitcoin is anonymous. And I think that they won't use that kind of public service, they will probably make their own mixer and use it by their own.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. It's pseudonymous. While an address is not by definition linked to a human identity, it certainly can be in many ways if a user is not very careful to cover all tracks.

Making your own mixer with that amount of hot coins would just put a target on your back when everyone realizes that you're delivering tainted coins from the Bitfinex heist to your customers.

So it is better to use a existing big mixing service. But how can you make your coin safe without being identified by the mixer?

marky89

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Quote from: Jeremycoin on August 06, 2016, 12:25:09 PM

It's hard to do that, considering that Bitcoin is anonymous. And I think that they won't use that kind of public service, they will probably make their own mixer and use it by their own.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. It's pseudonymous. While an address is not by definition linked to a human identity, it certainly can be in many ways if a user is not very careful to cover all tracks.

Making your own mixer with that amount of hot coins would just put a target on your back when everyone realizes that you're delivering tainted coins from the Bitfinex heist to your customers.

illyiller

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Quote from: pereira4 on August 06, 2016, 10:29:17 AM

If a mixer receives coins that are from a known theft, as far as I know they remain neutral to the whole thing and limit themselves to do their job (mix the coins). There are certain sites like Helix that as far as I know are fully automatized, run on a onion tor website and deliver clean coins, after that I would say it's impossible to find, so he would proceed to sell in exchanges. Of course if he isn't a total idiot, he will not dump and will sell slowly so he doesn't get caught.

So in this situation... how can they find them? I wish they find them and people can recover funds but what if he runs coins through mixers?

You can't run 120,000 BTC through mixers. There just isn't enough liquidity in the world across all mixers to even begin to launder that amount of bitcoin. Sure, if he wanted to mix 50 or 100 BTC here and there -- and he would probably want to run them through multiple mixers -- he could maybe do that. But he would need to be very, very careful. Several blockchain analysis firms are watching those coins, and once they start moving, clues start being given away.

zend7

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Hackers please hack me .... if you can :)

Once the coins are mixed in a very good service like Bitmixer, Cryptomixer or another mixer in the deep web which I don't recall now chances are small that the exchangers finds out who is the hacker. Mixers are the perfect place when you want to make "money laundering" in the bitcoin cryptocurrency but are also something that helps criminals a lot like the story of hackers or people who are involved with shady things over the dark net. For the moment if someone looks under an address of bitcoin they need a lot of tools to only have a small chance to find out to who this address belongs. Not even law enforcement agencies can help in this case even if they are involved.

ajaxmoor

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on August 20, 2016, 12:21:14 PM

Quote from: ajaxmoor on August 20, 2016, 11:42:31 AM

He doesn't really have to run it through mixers. He can just start going through different sites and it will be mixed by themselves.

any "site" or service out there that is accepting bitcoin as payment can be keeping logs, so you see coins moving out of 1HackersBTCAddress... and check who the other address belong to and go to that "site" and ask them who did this and they will give the information to the authorities.
this is the way they caught kickass owner Cheesy

he was using coinbase and also he was buying stuff from itunes

Coinbase is a different case. If the Kickass owner was to use something like Bitmixer, they would probably not have figured it out.

Quote from: amacar2 on August 20, 2016, 01:32:26 PM

Quote from: ajaxmoor on August 20, 2016, 11:42:31 AM

He doesn't really have to run it through mixers. He can just start going through different sites and it will be mixed by themselves.

Mixing themselved all 1,00,000BTC+ from where i don't think this is possible. I have seen somewhere actually hacker is trying to agree upon legally owning some % of stolen fund and returning remaining back to bitfinex. If this happen than it will be good for all including price of bitcoin may go up.

I am not saying he has to mix that much amount of BTC. He can just mix some now, and some later through different mixers or exchanges. You don't have to relate your identity on all sites to withdraw coins.
That was a proposition made by bitfinex, but I doubt he would agree to that in any case.

Kprawn

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These Mixer services can be subpoenaed to give up the information, if needed. It all depends on what the law wants to do, and if they want to take it further. As far as I know, nobody has laid a formal

charge at a Police station or given proof that they did? Some people even think, some of these services are honeypots for government agencies. As far as I know, nobody has ever received information

from the company in my signature space, so it's safe to say, they are not one of them. Wink

amacar2

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Quote from: ajaxmoor on August 20, 2016, 11:42:31 AM

He doesn't really have to run it through mixers. He can just start going through different sites and it will be mixed by themselves.

Mixing themselved all 1,00,000BTC+ from where i don't think this is possible. I have seen somewhere actually hacker is trying to agree upon legally owning some % of stolen fund and returning remaining back to bitfinex. If this happen than it will be good for all including price of bitcoin may go up.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: ajaxmoor on August 20, 2016, 11:42:31 AM

He doesn't really have to run it through mixers. He can just start going through different sites and it will be mixed by themselves.

any "site" or service out there that is accepting bitcoin as payment can be keeping logs, so you see coins moving out of 1HackersBTCAddress... and check who the other address belong to and go to that "site" and ask them who did this and they will give the information to the authorities.
this is the way they caught kickass owner Cheesy

he was using coinbase and also he was buying stuff from itunes

ajaxmoor

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He doesn't really have to run it through mixers. He can just start going through different sites and it will be mixed by themselves.

Katadin

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I think the hacker has already made a lot of money by shorting the bitcoin before the hack news leaked out. So there is no immediate need for him to spend the stolen money now.

Topic: How can exchanges find out Bitfinex funds if "hacker" runs them throught mixers? (Read 2228 times)