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Topic: How can we take Bitcoin Talk back into the Bitcoin community? - page 2. (Read 1608 times)

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 4265
eXch.cx - Automatic crypto Swap Exchange.
I found the video interesting, although it includes a number of items with which I would disagree. It includes a reference to Reddit, but no mention of Bitcoin Talk - the forum that started the Bitcoin revolution.

Here's the catch, reddit and other social media needs publicity that's why they get mentioned in bitcoin related video as the video you saw above did. Bitcointalk doesn't need a promotional helps from those video because it promote itself. If I'm not mistaking, BT has over 2million+ registered account and they got that without a single advertisement. Any new investor/user interested in bitcoin will end up hearing about bitcointalk one way or the other that, this was the forum everything started from. Therefore i think the forum is doing good although there's some wisdom for improvement, lets leave others medias to enjoy the spotlight while we focus on maximising the potentials of BTC

Bitcointalk is already holding her position as the major contributor (as the growth ground for bitcoin) what else are we asking from the platform, she is doing great the way she is. That's just the fact.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1775
I'd like to see Bitcoin Talk regain its position as a significant contributor to the growth and acceptance of Bitcoin. What can I/we do to achieve this?
Hello, Jet Cash, there are many things that can be done to convince the Bitcoin Community, for now you can start the extent to which this community has been running :Bitcoin_Wiki:Community_portalthis really helps you where you are,
As you mentioned: BITCOIN COMMUNITY, which was created in 2009 by Satoshi Nakamoto.

The name is linked in software that he designed, as well as peer-to-peer networks which are connected all of them. With a database, when transactions spread to P2P, I make sure that bitcoin can be spent by people who have it.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 526
It is difficult to find good topics and good discussions in the forum. Social Networks seeks to offer something that will grab the user's attention within the first two minutes of their visit.

They do this by using algorithms that expose what the supposed user will most like to see or read. Many people complain, say they prefer chronological order or something close to it. But this works. In Reddit, the function of downvote and upvote serves to offer you what is more popular and that you would probably like to see.

Social networks work by turning your visit into an addiction. And they do this by creating a sense of urgency. You need to comment or share that immediately. Also, in cases like Twitter, when you're an influencer, you're always on some kind of stage. It's not a discussion. This for people who work with their image, whether they are speakers or members of important companies, is much more rewarding than participating in a forum.

The forum is the opposite of all this. It is a place that allows continuous discussions, which can be extended for years, in a single topic. It is a place where the moment is not as important as in a chat room.

But if there is a will to attract more users, it need to be simpler for the person, who does not participate in the forum with some frequency, to be able to find good topics and good discussions. Perhaps an "all" or "popular" section where a list with no more than 30 topics would be organized using some algorithm. Gathering topics from all over the forum. Of course, this could attract spammers to those topics, but that's another problem that also needs to be solved.
copper member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 2348
Bitcointalk was something that helped get Bitcoin off the ground and sparked adoption from near zero levels. While Bitcoin was very new, most people involved in Bitcoin (and the forum) largely valued their privacy/anonymity and had high levels of technical expertise. Companies had a fairly small customer base and as such did not need to communicate with customers as efficiently as possible.

Today, many Bitcoin (and crypto) users have much less technical expertise and value privacy less. Being that Facebook, Twitter and reddit are already used by many, newer Bitcoin users are likely to already have accounts on these platforms, and as such, to interact with others in regards to crypto. With bitcointalk not being very good to communicate with customers efficiently, companies will not push their customers onto bitcointalk to communicate, but rather to platforms such as FB, telegram and zendesk.

Having many people labeled as scammers by people who are not held accountable, and are labeled as scammers for arbitrary reasons, often unrelated to being a scammer is not helping anything.

If bitcointalk is going to grow, there will need to be better tools for companies to interact with customers. One solution might be to allow multiple people access a single PM inbox without having to share a single password. For example, "cryptostore" might have their customer send a PM with a problem, one employee might respond, and when the customer responds, a different employee could respond. This could be done by allowing multiple login credentials to access a single account, with different access levels (such as the ability to post, send PMs, and add/revoke access to either of these). The "mother" account could be a premium (paid) account and PM limits to these types of accounts could be lifted.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 4085
Farewell o_e_l_e_o
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
IMO the meat grinder of scams and trust conflicts has been a large source of these issues. I know a lot of really good people this community could have used that just bailed because they got tired of being at the mercy of bored little OCD children with police hats running around often inventing crimes where there was none, punishing rivals, selectively enforcing, and just general childish control seeking behavior. If you have a community where some idiot can take your ability to trade on a whim, that doesn't exactly foster an environment people want to dedicate much time to, and just breeds general contempt.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 2472
https://JetCash.com
Can some of you guys start some profound threads in Ivory Tower. At the moment the top 4 threads were started by me, and I haven't bumped them. It's a bit embarrassing really.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
I agree, even though AFAIK there's sub-reddit option to remove downvote option.

There isn't, some subreddits just use CSS to hide the downvote button, which is stupid because it advantages the people who "break the rules" by turning off custom CSS so that they can downvote people.

Reddit, like all popular social media, sucks for real discussion. It strongly promotes a groupthink/bubble mentality, and furthermore people/organizations are constantly manipulating the system in order to fabricate a "groupthink". But people find it easy and satisfying to use, so they use it.

Using Machine Learning to detect spam sounds good even though it's expensive

Current machine learning tech is OK at answering questions like "does this contain ". So it's OK at detecting clear-cut things like spam and obscenity (though dealing with an intelligent adversary makes the task much more difficult), but it's nowhere near being able to answer more abstract questions like "is this post off-topic?". This is why Twitter & friends keep failing to reliably detect things like "hate speech", since that's too abstract a concept for current ML tech.

I don't think that the hardware costs would be particularly expensive for any plausible bitcointalk.org usage of ML, but I don't think that it's worthwhile currently. Maybe if there was a massive influx of blatant spam. When you hear about big companies pouring tons of money into machine learning, I think that's almost entirely them trying to make the tech less terrible by hiring either ML experts or people who help produce training data.
hero member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 756
Bobby Fischer was right
A relic that gains value over time is a static object. A community is a living organism. If a community website doesn't adapt to the ever changing landscape of both the internet and society at large, it'll suffer a slow and painful death. I'm not saying Bitcointalk should do a 180 and change it's entire identity, but feature-full (as in by today's standards), easy to use and stable software as well as fostering a community are probably 2 of the few objectively beneficial things to strive for in an online forum.
It's not static, metals cover with patina, paintings get pale and so on. Sure maintenance is needed but custodians have this iron rule to never repair, only conserve. Of course it's a bad idea to apply this to computer code however preservation of the original experience can not be a bad thing... right? I do agree that it needs to stay on par with the technology, period. Only solution seems to be emulation Smiley New soft, old looks.

It's not a backstory if it's still the same as it used to be. A backstory is a tale of progression and change - how an object / person / event / platform evolved, not how it remained the same for eternity.
It is a backstory to me. Not only words but also those old obsolete signature codes, that link to non-existent places. Would be a shame to loose all that as it is a story. Sotory of change because of the medium, because it wasn't changed 5years ago in to something else. Call me sentimental but I truly believe in the power of traditions and those can't be built of liquid-like changes. This of course if preserving any satoshis spirit is our goal...

This place is alive because it was the first and only official Bitcoin forum. In an alternate universe, if this forum wasn't the first one and thus in competition with all the other copycats, it probably wouldn't fare as well.
That's true. I don't know where I was going with this ;_p
As someone who moderates the place as well as an active user of the forum, there are many, many broken things about the forum. There's a reason I barely venture outside Meta if I just want to chill and read some interesting content. Or maybe that's just me.
Obviously you know better. I saw this pattern couple of times though, owners decide to refresh UI, users complain, small part of them leaves never to return. Owners perform more updates to introduce fancy stuff -> dégringolade, downfall etc.
In my opinion this is the purest, most legible classic-forum around, basically the last page that does not make my eyes tired after 15 minutes of reading and so, I'm a little worried when I hear some staff member mentions drastic changes. Eh...can't stop progress, I guess, emulate  Cool
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 554
I prefer the old look of bitcointalk and I don't think it is an issue.  Craigslist still has the same layout from years ago and looks like something out of the 1990s, yet it is still one of the most visited websites on the internet for commerce.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 2472
https://JetCash.com
@ETFbitcoin

Thanks for the link to that thread. It's massive, so it will have to wait until tomorrow for me to read it. Smiley
member
Activity: 560
Merit: 14
Although I think bitcoin talk is popular to an extent it has more than 2million registered(i stand to be corrected) but compared to bitcoin it's lacking behind.
What if bitcoin talk can have it own social media accounts on social media platforms.
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
Reddit's threaded structure tends to water down discussions, splitting them up into numerous sub-discussions, as well as making it harder for the reader to easily read through a topic. It's upvote / downvote based comment and topic sorting and filtering essentially introduces censorship by democracy - unpopular opinions get pushed down and filtered out, while regurgitated popular opinions consistently get pushed to the top. I'm not particularly fond of Reddit's social media like site design either.

I agree, even though AFAIK there's sub-reddit option to remove downvote option.

As for quality:

1. less strict moderation
2. spam eradicated
3. not spending massive amounts of money and effort on numerous staff, machine learning based detection systems, etc.

Pick 2

By removing signature and bounty child board, 3 of them can be achieved (or partially achieved) at cost forum activity significantly decreased.

Using Machine Learning to detect spam sounds good even though it's expensive, but it's possible if deleted posts because spam is preserved as training data, there's category option when report post and few people with such expertise.

I'm not sure where to discuss Lightning - would Bitcoin discussion be a good place? I want to start to use it to accept payments.

Not bad idea if you self-moderated the thread. You also can check https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4638321.320, but it's technical oriented discussion rather than general discussion
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 2472
https://JetCash.com
I can't get on with Reddit's format, and I think that Facebook and Twitter users are either kids, tossers, or politicians.

I really like the structure here, and there are some great members. I'd love to be able to interact with them, but it is pretty difficult at the moment. I think it is sad that more of the senior members don't use Serious discussion,and Ivory Tower.

I'm not sure where to discuss Lightning - would Bitcoin discussion be a good place? I want to start to use it to accept payments.
global moderator
Activity: 3766
Merit: 2610
In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce
I'm probably giving away my age by saying that I am quite comfortable with the current forum layout. Of course there could be some minor changes, but in the main it is holding up well.
I'd say the issue isn't with the layout, but rather functionality. If one was able to choose (or create) his own layout for the forum, everyone could be satisfied. Technically, SMF 1.X supports custom themes but, as with many other features, it's been disabled for security reasons (possibly unsafe implementation or at least a massive attack vector).

Another potential for Bitcoin is the provision of rewards for content producers. Brave and Steemit are trying this. Where could one discuss this in relation to Bitcoin in the current forum?  The Lightning network is another important development for Bitcoin - should we have a Lightning board?
AFAIK any Bitcoin-related tech discussion should reside in "Development & Technical Discussion". As for the Lightning Network, unless discussions on it are pushing down every other type of topic in one of the forum's boards, it's unlikely it'll get it's own section. In most cases, boards are only created when a subset of a board's topics pushes down the rest of them.

Then it will stop being bitcointalk, at least for me.
There is this thing about relicts, they tend to gain value with time. I think it will happen here also.
A relic that gains value over time is a static object. A community is a living organism. If a community website doesn't adapt to the ever changing landscape of both the internet and society at large, it'll suffer a slow and painful death. I'm not saying Bitcointalk should do a 180 and change it's entire identity, but feature-full (as in by today's standards), easy to use and stable software as well as fostering a community are probably 2 of the few objectively beneficial things to strive for in an online forum.

I think bitcoin needs this place to stay a little archaic, out of time, mostly because it needs backstory. Some sort of a background.
It's not a backstory if it's still the same as it used to be. A backstory is a tale of progression and change - how an object / person / event / platform evolved, not how it remained the same for eternity.

In modern era conservative nature seems old-fashioned, pase even but nevertheless rock solid. Most stable constructions are built on bedrock, not sand and that's why this place is still alive, thriving in fact.
This place is alive because it was the first and only official Bitcoin forum. In an alternate universe, if this forum wasn't the first one and thus in competition with all the other copycats, it probably wouldn't fare as well.

There also this; don't fix, what is not broken; rule, so in my mind this place is bitcoin Smiley the other side of the same coin, in some sense.
People just don't seem to realise this.
As someone who moderates the place as well as an active user of the forum, there are many, many broken things about the forum. There's a reason I barely venture outside Meta if I just want to chill and read some interesting content. Or maybe that's just me.

For quantity (just like r/bitcoin), Bitcoin Talk UI/UX should evolve just like Reddit.
For quality, spam should be eradicated and less strict moderation.

But i don't see both option will happen anytime soon.
Reddit's threaded structure tends to water down discussions, splitting them up into numerous sub-discussions, as well as making it harder for the reader to easily read through a topic. It's upvote / downvote based comment and topic sorting and filtering essentially introduces censorship by democracy - unpopular opinions get pushed down and filtered out, while regurgitated popular opinions consistently get pushed to the top. I'm not particularly fond of Reddit's social media like site design either. As for quality:

1. less strict moderation
2. spam eradicated
3. not spending massive amounts of money and effort on numerous staff, machine learning based detection systems, etc.

Pick 2

Quality and usefulness (which compete with freedom) are things that are always on my mind, but I'm not bothered by popularity. Most people will always use the big, popular platforms, and bitcointalk.org will never compete with them. Trying to compete with them would require totally changing how the site works, not just tweaking around the edges and adding a fresh coat of paint. (Our next-gen Epochtalk software works fundamentally the same way as the current software, just better.) I tend to agree with poptok1's post.
The point is not to compete with social media but be the best you can be in the category you're already competing in - online forums. Epochtalk's development is coming along at a painfully slow pace (see: code frequency; similar patterns in other repositories) with no end in sight for many onlookers. There's a clear systematic issue of incentivized spam, especially in the altcoin sections. Both of these situations indicate that there's a lack of manpower in tackling these issues, be it through oversight, coming up with intelligent and thought out solutions or preparing and applying detailed implementation plans. I'm not saying there are easy solutions (that keep in mind the core values of the Bitcointalk community), but there are many really smart people around the world who, when given sufficient compensation for their work and time, can sooner or later work out the way to properly mitigate these issues.



approximate tl;dr of the entire post: keep core values at heart and improve within the framework they've set up.
hero member
Activity: 1680
Merit: 655
I don't think Bitcointalk as a forum could regain something back to the way it was 10 years ago, by now Bitcointalk will be competing a lot of websites for its members. We have users who are loyal to specific Facebook groups, Subreddit pages, Telegram/Discord Channels, and of course other crypto-focused forums as well. To top it off not all people at this day in age are into forum like interactions, I don't know but I myself is not comfortable on using other forums because of their layout, luckily BCT is not one of them.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 2073
Try to compare forum usage and for example Reddit. It is more convenient for many people to communicate in social networks, and not on forums. Today, there are many other platforms where cryptocurrencies are discussed. The forum will be competitive if it is here that new information will appear.
full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 172
I agree with what mprep said, all the forums I used to visit on the internet are dead or extremely inactive.  Everyone has moved over to reddit, there is a category for everything on reddit.  It is much easier to just create one reddit account and discuss anything you like.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
Quality and usefulness (which compete with freedom) are things that are always on my mind, but I'm not bothered by popularity. Most people will always use the big, popular platforms, and bitcointalk.org will never compete with them. Trying to compete with them would require totally changing how the site works, not just tweaking around the edges and adding a fresh coat of paint. (Our next-gen Epochtalk software works fundamentally the same way as the current software, just better.) I tend to agree with poptok1's post.

does anyone have any idea if the number of new members is stagnating (significantly), or not?

We're at a local minimum, but registrations jump around a lot:
Code:
+---------------------+---------------+
| 30day starting      | registrations |
+---------------------+---------------+
| 2009-11-02 00:00:00 |             3 |
| 2009-12-02 00:00:00 |             8 |
| 2010-01-01 00:00:00 |             8 |
| 2010-01-31 00:00:00 |            22 |
| 2010-03-02 00:00:00 |             5 |
| 2010-04-01 00:00:00 |            22 |
| 2010-05-01 00:00:00 |            15 |
| 2010-05-31 00:00:00 |            33 |
| 2010-06-30 00:00:00 |           325 |
| 2010-07-30 00:00:00 |           159 |
| 2010-08-29 00:00:00 |           148 |
| 2010-09-28 00:00:00 |           190 |
| 2010-10-28 00:00:00 |           204 |
| 2010-11-27 00:00:00 |           383 |
| 2010-12-27 00:00:00 |           384 |
| 2011-01-26 00:00:00 |           938 |
| 2011-02-25 00:00:00 |          2202 |
| 2011-03-27 00:00:00 |          2737 |
| 2011-04-26 00:00:00 |          4936 |
| 2011-05-26 00:00:00 |         14048 |
| 2011-06-25 00:00:00 |          6250 |
| 2011-07-25 00:00:00 |          3903 |
| 2011-08-24 00:00:00 |          2938 |
| 2011-09-23 00:00:00 |          1983 |
| 2011-10-23 00:00:00 |          1965 |
| 2011-11-22 00:00:00 |          1835 |
| 2011-12-22 00:00:00 |          1812 |
| 2012-01-21 00:00:00 |          2082 |
| 2012-02-20 00:00:00 |          1901 |
| 2012-03-21 00:00:00 |          2158 |
| 2012-04-20 00:00:00 |          1969 |
| 2012-05-20 00:00:00 |          2057 |
| 2012-06-19 00:00:00 |          2040 |
| 2012-07-19 00:00:00 |          2145 |
| 2012-08-18 00:00:00 |          2419 |
| 2012-09-17 00:00:00 |          2661 |
| 2012-10-17 00:00:00 |          2958 |
| 2012-11-16 00:00:00 |          2763 |
| 2012-12-16 00:00:00 |          2611 |
| 2013-01-15 00:00:00 |          3320 |
| 2013-02-14 00:00:00 |          4933 |
| 2013-03-16 00:00:00 |         13816 |
| 2013-04-15 00:00:00 |         18162 |
| 2013-05-15 00:00:00 |         11318 |
| 2013-06-14 00:00:00 |          8095 |
| 2013-07-14 00:00:00 |          6703 |
| 2013-08-13 00:00:00 |          5505 |
| 2013-09-12 00:00:00 |          4137 |
| 2013-10-12 00:00:00 |          5632 |
| 2013-11-11 00:00:00 |         26804 |
| 2013-12-11 00:00:00 |         28776 |
| 2014-01-10 00:00:00 |         29576 |
| 2014-02-09 00:00:00 |         29839 |
| 2014-03-11 00:00:00 |         22534 |
| 2014-04-10 00:00:00 |         18065 |
| 2014-05-10 00:00:00 |         13071 |
| 2014-06-09 00:00:00 |         12180 |
| 2014-07-09 00:00:00 |         10561 |
| 2014-08-08 00:00:00 |         10925 |
| 2014-09-07 00:00:00 |          9418 |
| 2014-10-07 00:00:00 |          8218 |
| 2014-11-06 00:00:00 |          7974 |
| 2014-12-06 00:00:00 |          8136 |
| 2015-01-05 00:00:00 |         23256 |
| 2015-02-04 00:00:00 |         36913 |
| 2015-03-06 00:00:00 |         33500 |
| 2015-04-05 00:00:00 |          8450 |
| 2015-05-05 00:00:00 |          8577 |
| 2015-06-04 00:00:00 |         10303 |
| 2015-07-04 00:00:00 |         11773 |
| 2015-08-03 00:00:00 |          9725 |
| 2015-09-02 00:00:00 |          7644 |
| 2015-10-02 00:00:00 |         68601 |
| 2015-11-01 00:00:00 |         44059 |
| 2015-12-01 00:00:00 |         39244 |
| 2015-12-31 00:00:00 |         37106 |
| 2016-01-30 00:00:00 |         42233 |
| 2016-02-29 00:00:00 |         24213 |
| 2016-03-30 00:00:00 |         19336 |
| 2016-04-29 00:00:00 |         16031 |
| 2016-05-29 00:00:00 |         19935 |
| 2016-06-28 00:00:00 |         12582 |
| 2016-07-28 00:00:00 |         10646 |
| 2016-08-27 00:00:00 |          9986 |
| 2016-09-26 00:00:00 |          9844 |
| 2016-10-26 00:00:00 |         10718 |
| 2016-11-25 00:00:00 |         10691 |
| 2016-12-25 00:00:00 |         12429 |
| 2017-01-24 00:00:00 |         13664 |
| 2017-02-23 00:00:00 |         13893 |
| 2017-03-25 00:00:00 |         15276 |
| 2017-04-24 00:00:00 |         20585 |
| 2017-05-24 00:00:00 |         31381 |
| 2017-06-23 00:00:00 |         35866 |
| 2017-07-23 00:00:00 |         40726 |
| 2017-08-22 00:00:00 |         45026 |
| 2017-09-21 00:00:00 |         70477 |
| 2017-10-21 00:00:00 |         95568 |
| 2017-11-20 00:00:00 |        144762 |
| 2017-12-20 00:00:00 |        238433 |
| 2018-01-19 00:00:00 |        136872 |
| 2018-02-18 00:00:00 |        107237 |
| 2018-03-20 00:00:00 |         87087 |
| 2018-04-19 00:00:00 |         89659 |
| 2018-05-19 00:00:00 |         83999 |
| 2018-06-18 00:00:00 |         72430 |
| 2018-07-18 00:00:00 |         61360 |
| 2018-08-17 00:00:00 |         43451 |
| 2018-09-16 00:00:00 |         43516 |
| 2018-10-16 00:00:00 |         35335 |
| 2018-11-15 00:00:00 |         31502 |
| 2018-12-15 00:00:00 |         20733 |
| 2019-01-14 00:00:00 |         20046 |
| 2019-02-13 00:00:00 |          2763 | [PARTIAL PERIOD]
+---------------------+---------------+
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1059
nutildah-III / NFT2021-04-01
IMO normal people actually don't know about this place, because it became competitive due to sig.campaigns and in the interest of members is to keep it obscured. Devs... idk, they should at least be aware but remember the times when almost every new project was called a scam and hyena feeding of original idea?  Roll Eyes might be the reason, I guess.

I've noticed many devs have switched to Telegram, and even Bounty Campaigns use Telegram channels for their communication. I am not sure this is a good evolution. Of course, it is an easy way to get rid of FUDers and spammers (which is a good thing for BT, too), as you can block whoever you want, but then again it avoids critical voices and opinions from being heard.

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if BT evolved (again) to a technical forum, seeing less and less spammers joining the forum. That being said - and not wanting to go off-topic but: does anyone have any idea if the number of new members is stagnating (significantly), or not?
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