How Could Bitcoin Evolve? | Bitcointalksearch.org

voisine

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Quote from: BrunesBTC45 on October 08, 2014, 08:44:54 PM

Quote from: chenka563 on October 06, 2014, 09:17:52 AM

Where is the 'new' wallet which is like a lite version that means you don't need to download the whole blockchain.

i Need it!

How about breadwallet?

breadwallet for iOS was the first mobile HD wallet using SPV (simplified payment verification, the lite version of the blockchain).

On Android andreas schlindbach's wallet is SPV as well, and just recently added HD like breadwallet (which means it doesn't reuse addresses which helps protect your privacy)

BrunesBTC45

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Quote from: chenka563 on October 06, 2014, 09:17:52 AM

Where is the 'new' wallet which is like a lite version that means you don't need to download the whole blockchain.

i Need it!

How about breadwallet?

pokerFace2

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Quote from: chenka563 on October 06, 2014, 09:17:52 AM

Where is the 'new' wallet which is like a lite version that means you don't need to download the whole blockchain.

i Need it!

There are few such wallets. I use electrum. I believe multibit is lite version as well...

chenka563

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Where is the 'new' wallet which is like a lite version that means you don't need to download the whole blockchain.

i Need it!

Sukrim

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Quote from: franky1 on October 05, 2014, 09:21:54 AM

Quote from: jabo38 on October 05, 2014, 02:14:55 AM

Ripple/Stellar are a real crypto,

wrong

ripple:
cryptographic secured transaction: no
blockchain: no
decentralised: no

This is wrong.

Transactions are cryptographically signed and secured, otherwise anyone could access anyone's balance...

Blockchain: Yes, however unlike Bitcoin (which only stores a transaction tree in blocks) Ripple stores the AccountState (comparable to the UTXO set in Bitcoin) AND transactions in it's chain. This means bootstrapping is easier, as you only need a recent "block" (aka. ledger), not every block from the beginning.

Decentralised: It depends. I would agree to a "no" for now, it is built to be decentralised though from the start. It is not clear what you mean by that term though, in your comment about stellar you write something about gateways, whcih doesn't make any sense.

Since Stellar is just a fork of Ripple, the same is valid there.

santaClause

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Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 11:42:12 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on October 05, 2014, 11:00:19 AM

Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 10:41:10 AM

No. The government can track bitcoin and in the future, they can tax it.

Darkcoin or other anonymous altcoins claim to be untraceable. Because of this, i cannot see how the US government would consider legalizing it instead of bitcoin.

How do you track bitcoin with tools like the darkwallet, coinjoin, and stealth addresses?

I have no idea, but for the average US citizen who pays taxes and isn't interested in hiding anything from the government, bitcoin makes perfect sense.

There will always be a black market, scams, fraud, money laundering, people working for cash etc. The governments main interest is to tax as much money activity as possible without causing citizens to revolt. Bitcoin allows this, darkcoin not so much.

darkcoin allows money laundering more then bitcoin does, however it will not be the breaking point that prevents people from having to pay taxes. It will be obvious if someone is paying an appropriate level of taxes based on their spending habits and standard of living. If they are claiming to be living in poverty but is driving a BMW then they are clearly not reporting all their income and charges would be brought against them

sublime5447

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on October 05, 2014, 11:00:19 AM

Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 10:41:10 AM

No. The government can track bitcoin and in the future, they can tax it.

Darkcoin or other anonymous altcoins claim to be untraceable. Because of this, i cannot see how the US government would consider legalizing it instead of bitcoin.

How do you track bitcoin with tools like the darkwallet, coinjoin, and stealth addresses?

By going to the exchanges and demanding accountability of frunds traded there. See no one gives a shit about a bitcoin but they care a lot about USD. When people trade they are not trading for coins they are trading for usd and what they are really trading for is what the USD can get them. They dont need to track every move just gains.

Waramp22

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on October 05, 2014, 11:48:23 AM

I agree with you , but only because bitcoin was marketed as having an open and traceable ledger. Russia saw through the marketing and decided to ban everything.

Russia also bans gay pride parades. While Russia is kind of awesome, it is old school compared to other 1st world countries.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 11:42:12 AM

I have no idea, but for the average US citizen who pays taxes and isn't interested in hiding anything from the government, bitcoin makes perfect sense.

There will always be a black market, scams, fraud, money laundering, people working for cash etc. The governments main interest is to tax as much money activity as possible without causing citizens to revolt. Bitcoin allows this, darkcoin not so much.

I agree with you , but only because bitcoin was marketed as having an open and traceable ledger. Russia saw through the marketing and decided to ban everything.

Waramp22

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on October 05, 2014, 11:00:19 AM

Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 10:41:10 AM

No. The government can track bitcoin and in the future, they can tax it.

Darkcoin or other anonymous altcoins claim to be untraceable. Because of this, i cannot see how the US government would consider legalizing it instead of bitcoin.

How do you track bitcoin with tools like the darkwallet, coinjoin, and stealth addresses?

I have no idea, but for the average US citizen who pays taxes and isn't interested in hiding anything from the government, bitcoin makes perfect sense.

There will always be a black market, scams, fraud, money laundering, people working for cash etc. The governments main interest is to tax as much money activity as possible without causing citizens to revolt. Bitcoin allows this, darkcoin not so much.

BTCmoons

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Quote from: cbeast on October 04, 2014, 10:51:40 PM

The ASIC attack: design a cheaper, faster, more efficient ASIC. Fund it with someone that wants to spend millions to destroy Bitcoin. Create more ASICs and flood the general market because you don't want to go out of business if your market dries up. Bad agent is unable to attack Bitcoin. Bad agent changes strategy to make Bitcoins instead. Everybody wins.

This is why PoW is superior to PoS. Since you now need to make some kind of initial investment in miners in order to mine, you have a vested interest in seeing the coin you are mining succeed (since it is all that you can mine with an ASIC).

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 10:41:10 AM

No. The government can track bitcoin and in the future, they can tax it.

Darkcoin or other anonymous altcoins claim to be untraceable. Because of this, i cannot see how the US government would consider legalizing it instead of bitcoin.

How do you track bitcoin with tools like the darkwallet, coinjoin, and stealth addresses?

Waramp22

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Waramp22 on October 05, 2014, 10:27:37 AM

Quote from: btcxyzzz on October 05, 2014, 08:52:00 AM

The most important keyword about Bitcoin evolution is anonymity. Period. If it fails to deliver that, I think some anonymous altcoin may grow bigger than Bitcoin.

Why do you think the US government would ever consider legalizing a currency they cannot tax?

Bitcoin is illegal in the U.S.?

No. The government can track bitcoin and in the future, they can tax it.

Darkcoin or other anonymous altcoins claim to be untraceable. Because of this, i cannot see how the US government would consider legalizing it instead of bitcoin.

Waramp22

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Quote from: btcxyzzz on October 05, 2014, 08:52:00 AM

The most important keyword about Bitcoin evolution is anonymity. Period. If it fails to deliver that, I think some anonymous altcoin may grow bigger than Bitcoin.

Why do you think the US government would ever consider legalizing a currency they cannot tax?

franky1

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Quote from: jabo38 on October 05, 2014, 02:14:55 AM

Ripple/Stellar are a real crypto,

wrong

ripple:
cryptographic secured transaction: no
blockchain: no
decentralised: no

stellar:
cryptographically secured transactions: no
blockchain: no
decentralised: semi (gateways:yes, individuals: no)

btcxyzzz

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Monero - secure, private and untraceable currency.

The most important keyword about Bitcoin evolution is anonymity. Period. If it fails to deliver that, I think some anonymous altcoin may grow bigger than Bitcoin.

jabo38

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mining is so 2012-2013

Quote from: franky1 on October 03, 2014, 08:23:12 PM

Quote from: jabo38 on October 03, 2014, 07:38:43 PM

Bitcoin is opening the door to crypto.

Crypto 2.0 is going to knock down the whole house.

Crypto 2.0 = Ripple/Stellar, Ethereum, NXT, and NEM
(there are some other honorable mentions but will need to be evaluated more later)

ripple, stellar are not even crypto's. they are mysql database entries. and the others.. well pfft.. they still lack the benefits bitcoin has even if people do orgasm over the stories they tell

So, I am going to more or less agree with you. Ripple/Stellar are a real crypto, but they are an interesting system for international cross currency money transfers. That is if they get support from the banks. This feature is something that Bitcoin is also trying to do and is doing okay, but it seems to me Ripple/Stellar might in 5 years be much better at it.

As for the others, yes they still lack the benefits of Bitcoin and Bitcoin is still better by far, but I am not sure if that will be the case in 5 years from now.

Basically, I agree with you on the current state of affairs, but have a different vision of the possible future.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

The ASIC attack: design a cheaper, faster, more efficient ASIC. Fund it with someone that wants to spend millions to destroy Bitcoin. Create more ASICs and flood the general market because you don't want to go out of business if your market dries up. Bad agent is unable to attack Bitcoin. Bad agent changes strategy to make Bitcoins instead. Everybody wins.

Waramp22

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Quote from: kokojie on October 04, 2014, 08:34:10 PM

PoS miner are by definition, stake holders in the eco-system. The bigger the miner, the bigger his stake in the system, and therefore the bigger the interest to protect the system. This is why naturally, PoS eco-system has never been attacked, even the tiniest PoS altcoin has not been successfully attacked. Because no one is stupid enough to destroy their own stake and wealth.

Spending millions of dollars on ASICs to attempt a 51% attack on the currency that the ASICs were designed to mine is a terrible investment. It is only profitable if you have tons of cash laying around to short bitcoin.

If they are trying to get rid of bitcoin all together, it would be cheaper to lobby the government to make it illegal.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on October 04, 2014, 09:21:42 PM

Quote from: kokojie on October 04, 2014, 05:42:44 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on October 04, 2014, 12:57:54 PM

Quote from: kokojie on October 04, 2014, 08:39:33 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on October 03, 2014, 08:26:24 PM

Quote from: kokojie on October 03, 2014, 06:45:28 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on October 03, 2014, 06:27:49 PM

pretty sure the core devs all agree, pow is the only proven secure method to achieve distributed consensus.

How could they not? since they are entrenched in the PoW mindset, and is confrontational when even someone mentions PoS. But the reality has PROVEN, that PoS is more secure and more community friendly (due to not having to transfer value out of the eco-system).

what proof do you speak of?

1. Many PoW altcoin has been 51% attacked, to the point the Dev just given up fighting back. Zero PoS altcoin has been successfully attacked so far.

2. In the altcoin competition, the PoS eco-systems has naturally risen to the top, on coinmarketcap right now, #4,#6,#7 are PoS, and #10 is a subsidiary of #4.

#1 Bitcoin, #3 Litecoin has early mover advantage, #2 Ripple is a scam that is non-PoW and non-PoS. I expect Litecoin will soon lose to a PoS eco-system in less than a year.

If Bitcoin keeps PoW, it'll be next, in 3-4 years time probably. This is because PoS re-invest in the community and eco-system, PoW transfers value out of the community and eco-system, into the pockets of hardware vendor/electric company.

Proof of Stakes rely on central checkpointing, (and therefore aren't
distributed. ) And they are vulnerable to nothing at stake
attacks.

Perhaps PoS haven't been successfully attacked but
I don't believe it is scalable.

Nope, just the contrary, PoW relies on centralized checkpointing, Bitcoin has checkpointing. PoS does not need centralized checkpointing because it's so hard to attack it, Peercoin is now fading out the checkpointing, because PoS has taken over the network, and PoW is fading out. BitsharesX, a pure PoS system, has no checkpointing.

NAS attack against a PoS system is pretty much fictional. When I asked why it haven't happened yet in reality, Gavin's reply was basically "people might not have figured out a good way to attack or built the tools to attack it yet". Well I'll believe it when I see it, so far I haven't seen it happen in reality, though you are welcome to change my mind, go initiate a NAS attack on a PoS system, see how far you could get.

I could attack any smaller PoW altcoin right now, with just a handful of ASIC machines. The weakness of PoW security is PROVEN, and exists in reality. All the PoS attack theories are UNPROVEN, and doesn't exist in reality.

So I'm not sure why Bitcoin is sticking to a proven insecure system, with $500 million current annual expense. But not adopt a system that have no security issue in reality, and has nearly no expense.

Believe whatever you want to believe. NaS makes sense to me. I can see how its a problem.
"I'll believe it when I see it" applies to me too. When a PoS coin overtakes Bitcoin, let me know.

Later.

People make a big deal about checkpoint thing. They are a temporary solution and only used for the oldest blocks that had a much lower difficulty. PoW was an ingenious invention, but it isn't finished yet. Bitcoin will soon not even need the checkpoints at all. Bitcoin is evolving while some unqualified programmers are creating mysql apps and their cronies are calling them cryptocurrencies. What a joke.

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