How did AML kill the decentralized market of Bitcoin? - page 2.

Cookdata

hero member

Activity: 1106

Merit: 912

Not Your Keys, Not Your Bitcoin

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

As we all know, Bitcoin is decentralized, and in its early days, we were proud of that fact--believing no government could control it and even thinking it might replace fiat. Those were the days when we were highly optimistic about Bitcoin’s future.

However, with the current AML (Anti-Money Laundering) policies in place, it seems like Bitcoin’s decentralization is being challenged by regulations, especially with the introduction of KYC (Know Your Customer) requirements.
Can we still enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin?

I think anti money laundering scheme has something to do with privacy of Bitcoin transaction and not really decentralization. When the government want everyone who do crypto transactions identified by their image and any other means of identification, that means the privacy payment of Bitcoin is already defeated, people can't hide transaction from the government because the moment you sent Bitcoin to kyc exchange, it becomes identifiable.

The decentralization has something to do with government been in control of Bitcoin in any form from the network down to its protocol. Right now, if you want to send Bitcoin through the Bitcoin network from your custodial wallet to another wallet address, no government can says otherwise and your transaction can't be flag by anyone, it doesn't have to pass through the government, this is what I think Bitcoin decentralization is about and not necessary the KYC aspect because that's a choice for people that want to use it.

DeathAngel

legendary

Activity: 3304

Merit: 1617

#1 VIP Crypto Casino

Bitcoin still works exactly as intended but yes, AML & KYC laws have spoiled the party a little bit. You can always use a P2P marketplace. Some Bitcoin ATMs are anon or you have to leave a mobile number or something, could use a burner though. I guess you can’t have ultimate mass adoption without regulation though so it’s tough.

lionheart78

legendary

Activity: 2954

Merit: 1153

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

As we all know, Bitcoin is decentralized, and in its early days, we were proud of that fact--believing no government could control it and even thinking it might replace fiat. Those were the days when we were highly optimistic about Bitcoin’s future.

Bitcoin is still decentralized today. It cannot be challenged as long as we use its blockchain for transaction and not undergoing centralized exchanges.

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

Can we still enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin?

Are we not still enjoying it? Through P2P exchanges government has no say about the transaction. Only on the centralized platform KYC can affect the transaction of Bitcoin. So if we wanted to fully exercise decentralization, avoid centralized platforms, or suffer the extent of KYC procedures.

hypersonic1

full member

Activity: 334

Merit: 110

Endless Horizons!

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

As we all know, Bitcoin is decentralized, and in its early days, we were proud of that fact--believing no government could control it and even thinking it might replace fiat. Those were the days when we were highly optimistic about Bitcoin’s future.

However, with the current AML (Anti-Money Laundering) policies in place, it seems like Bitcoin’s decentralization is being challenged by regulations, especially with the introduction of KYC (Know Your Customer) requirements.

Here's a brief definition of AML and money laundering for context.

Quote

Money laundering is a type of financial crime. It involves taking criminally obtained proceeds (dirty money) and disguising their origins so they’ll appear to be from a legitimate source. Anti-money laundering (AML) refers to the activities financial institutions perform to achieve compliance with legal requirements to actively monitor for and report suspicious activities.

https://www.sas.com/en_ph/insights/fraud/anti-money-laundering.html

Can we still enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin?

You bring up a good point. There are ways to solve this however. Projects like Samurai wallet(currently shut down atm) are ways to keep decentralized nature of Bitcoin alive. Check out Ashigaru wallet https://ashigaru.rs/ (This wallet was released by anonymous developers and is less than 10 days old as of this post. be careful and aware of risks. However it is non custodial fork of samurai.) AML policy makers are trying to "color" bitcoin to see if is used properly or possibly from or for nefarious purposes. As far as the base layer, that will always be decentralized.

Z-tight

hero member

Activity: 994

Merit: 1089

Quote from: Questat on September 29, 2024, 10:41:41 PM

it’s not about the network but more about the market. Check out some of the posts above..sorry for any confusion!

All right, i get your point now. It is true that there are more centralized firms and services in the industry than there are decentralized ones, and the government continues to attack the industry with regulations and anti-privacy policies. However, there are still ways we can use BTC privately without giving our data to centralized third party services, the thing is most people in the industry don't care about their privacy, so they choose the 'convenience' of centralized services.

retreat

sr. member

Activity: 1106

Merit: 391

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

Can we still enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin?

We can. If someone wants to make transactions more freely, they can use a decentralized exchange, there are several decentralized exchange websites that they can use bisq.network, or similar platforms, with the help of these platforms they can buy/sell Bitcoin without the need for KYC. And moreover, until now Bitcoin is still decentralized and it is still relevant to the idea when it was originally developed. Although now more people treat Bitcoin as an investment asset and more large institutions are involved in it, but Bitcoin is still widely used for transactions globally and no single entity/government can regulate the Bitcoin network - it shows that how the decentralized nature of Bitcoin is still relevant and exists today.

Alpha Marine

sr. member

Activity: 686

Merit: 332

At the end of the day, Bitcoin on its own is still a decentralised coin. Using it in a centralised way doesn't stop the coin from being centralised. Bitcoin on its own is not owned, controlled and managed by anybody or set of people, so anybody can use it, anybody can own it and sell it if he wants to.

Quote from: SickDayIn on September 30, 2024, 05:54:08 AM

In the early days, a significant portion of cryptocurrency holders were involved in illegal activity.

This is a common misconception that has been going on for years and it has now been debunked.
People against bitcoin and crypto keep coming up with various excuses of why bitcoin is bad and why it shouldn't be acceptable, they talked about the damage to the climate and how it's facilitates illegal activities, which are not true.
I'm not saying people don't use bitcoin for illegal things, but it's exaggerated. There is no crime that is been committed with bitcoin now that has not been in existence long before bitcoin and there's no crime that has increased simply because bitcoin was created.

Quote

In 2021, 0.15% of known cryptocurrency transactions conducted were involved in illicit activities like cybercrime, money laundering and terrorism financing, representing a total of $14 billion.

Wikipedia

SickDayIn

member

Activity: 210

Merit: 31

AML hasn't killed any decentralized part of Bitcoin. Bitcoin was always designed as a public ledger, the intention was never for transaction to be fully anonymous. If you make poor OpSec choices and ignore the power of data analytics, then yes some of your coins may be linked to your identity.

In the early days, a significant portion of cryptocurrency holders were involved in illegal activity. For example, in 2019, criminal activity represented 2.1% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume (reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-false-narrative-of-bitcoins-role-in-illicit-activity/). Whereas today in 2024, it's only 0.34% (reference: https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/2024-crypto-crime-report-introduction/)

avikz

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1500

I am still optimistic about the future of Bitcoin! Even though we all wanted to stay anonymous while using Bitcoin, deep down in mind, we all were doubtful about the regulations. Governments do not like things done under their nose without letting them know. So they have ceased and closed the decentralized exchanges. That was expected to happen to be honest.

But Bitcoin can be still used in an anonymous way. However, you will have to acquire bitcoin through mining and cannot move those to exchanges. Use peer to peer bitcoin transactions to remain anonymous.

TheUltraElite

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1253

So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Does the procedure of undergoing KYC/AML mean that your bitcoin is becoming an asset controlled by a central figure? Nope.

Then how would you explain AML killing the decentralization aspect?

What we are concerned about is the disclosures of amount of bitcoin being held by people. This should not pose a threat to law abiding citizens - maybe we will see taxation in future, but that would not hurt us unlike what it will hurt criminals.

The bright side is that more frauds will be caught and scammers will start avoiding bitcoin's pseudo-anonymity to escape authorities.

Smartprofit

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 1775

Catalog Websites

Quote from: coolcoinz on September 29, 2024, 03:18:03 PM

Quote from: Smartprofit on September 29, 2024, 01:30:40 PM

In my opinion, KYC and AML procedures are not aimed against the decentralization of the first cryptocurrency, but against the anonymity and privacy of its users.

Really? How are you anonymous when using a centralized custodial service? Were you ever anonymous?

10 years ago when there weren't many regulations, you were still tracked by your bank. There was no forced KYC on exchanges but if you wanted to buy bitcoin you had to send money from a bank. That transaction could always be traced back to you if the agencies like the IRS or the police decided to investigate.

It was the same when you wanted to sell bitcoin on exchange. You had no KYC, could make the account using a burner email, but you had to send fiat money somewhere. Even if you sent it to a paypal account that account had some KYC involved, for instance to activate it you had to send money from a bank account first to confirm your identity.

Bottom line, there was never any anonymity if you wanted to use fiat money, but it was always there when you transacted p2p.

I am anonymous whenever I use fiat (cash). Cash is currently (probably) the highest level of anonymity and privacy available to humans.

Bitcoin is pseudonymous. A third-party blockchain analyst can see all Bitcoin transactions, but they cannot determine who is making those transactions. This used to be the case...

Nowadays, thanks to AML and KYC procedures, Bitcoin is not even pseudonymous, it is absolutely not anonymous and not private.

People use fiat gateways and deanonymize themselves (and indirectly their counterparties). This is a big problem.

Questat

hero member

Activity: 2982

Merit: 610

Quote from: Z-tight on September 29, 2024, 03:38:39 PM

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

As we all know, Bitcoin is decentralized, and in its early days, we were proud of that fact--believing no government could control it and even thinking it might replace fiat. Those were the days when we were highly optimistic about Bitcoin’s future.

I never expected BTC to replace fiat, even Satoshi who created BTC didn't create it for it to replace fiat, it was created as an alternative currency to fiat and not its replacement.

That was way back in the day, man... Some people were really optimistic about it, and I’ll admit, the thought crossed my mind too, but only briefly. I remember because I was working at a bank at that time..I'm talking about 2016, when I first registered here, right before that major bull run happened.

Quote from: Z-tight on September 29, 2024, 03:38:39 PM

Take note that BTC is still decentralized, there is no kyc or aml policy in the BTC network in itself or on-chain, kyc is for centralized crypto services and they do not represent BTC. There is also no government controlling BTC, it is censorship resistant and permissioness, it is up to bitcoiners to decide how they want to use their BTC.

Yes, of course, but the subject was shifted for the sake of discussion; it’s not about the network but more about the market. Check out some of the posts above..sorry for any confusion!

Quote from: nelson4lov on September 29, 2024, 05:27:10 PM

Now that Bitcoin has an ETF, I don't think there's going to be a time that we'd not have government eyes on Bitcoin especially now that Bitcoin is officially on wall street markets. The decentralization we can still have has to do with how nodes are distributed and how concensus and decision making among these nodes + community is going to be carried out. I think that is the part that will most likely not get directly by governments unless they come up with nonsensical policies to prohibit certain activities such as restrict mining or try to gain gain more hash rate and coordinate the network.

We're still good for now.

And experts say that this will be the reason for liquidity and price stability in the market, but pure Bitcoin enthusiasts and HODLers wouldn’t agree with that.

nelson4lov

hero member

Activity: 2212

Merit: 805

Top Crypto Casino

Now that Bitcoin has an ETF, I don't think there's going to be a time that we'd not have government eyes on Bitcoin especially now that Bitcoin is officially on wall street markets. The decentralization we can still have has to do with how nodes are distributed and how concensus and decision making among these nodes + community is going to be carried out. I think that is the part that will most likely not get directly by governments unless they come up with nonsensical policies to prohibit certain activities such as restrict mining or try to gain gain more hash rate and coordinate the network.

We're still good for now.

Z-tight

hero member

Activity: 994

Merit: 1089

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

As we all know, Bitcoin is decentralized, and in its early days, we were proud of that fact--believing no government could control it and even thinking it might replace fiat. Those were the days when we were highly optimistic about Bitcoin’s future.

I never expected BTC to replace fiat, even Satoshi who created BTC didn't create it for it to replace fiat, it was created as an alternative currency to fiat and not its replacement.

Take note that BTC is still decentralized, there is no kyc or aml policy in the BTC network in itself or on-chain, kyc is for centralized crypto services and they do not represent BTC. There is also no government controlling BTC, it is censorship resistant and permissioness, it is up to bitcoiners to decide how they want to use their BTC.

coolcoinz

legendary

Activity: 2814

Merit: 1192

Quote from: Smartprofit on September 29, 2024, 01:30:40 PM

In my opinion, KYC and AML procedures are not aimed against the decentralization of the first cryptocurrency, but against the anonymity and privacy of its users.

Really? How are you anonymous when using a centralized custodial service? Were you ever anonymous?

10 years ago when there weren't many regulations, you were still tracked by your bank. There was no forced KYC on exchanges but if you wanted to buy bitcoin you had to send money from a bank. That transaction could always be traced back to you if the agencies like the IRS or the police decided to investigate.

It was the same when you wanted to sell bitcoin on exchange. You had no KYC, could make the account using a burner email, but you had to send fiat money somewhere. Even if you sent it to a paypal account that account had some KYC involved, for instance to activate it you had to send money from a bank account first to confirm your identity.

Bottom line, there was never any anonymity if you wanted to use fiat money, but it was always there when you transacted p2p.

dificanovi

full member

Activity: 840

Merit: 105

Buzz App - Spin wheel, farm rewards

The AML policy provides a barrier for Bitcoin as a decentralized cryptocurrency. Some governments have a problem with decentralized Bitcoin so that some countries ban Bitcoin. Countries that ban Bitcoin are afraid of money laundering by corruptors or criminal transactions such as buying weapons and buying illegal drugs. However, in countries that accept Bitcoin, there is no problem with decentralized Bitcoin because that is where the advantages of Bitcoin lie. People who live in countries that accept Bitcoin are very happy because they can benefit from decentralized Bitcoin, they can buy something with Bitcoin and can also benefit from trading bitcoin because the price of bitcoin is not controlled by the government but rather buyers and sellers who can control the price of Bitcoin.

Smartprofit

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 1775

Catalog Websites

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

As we all know, Bitcoin is decentralized, and in its early days, we were proud of that fact--believing no government could control it and even thinking it might replace fiat. Those were the days when we were highly optimistic about Bitcoin’s future.

However, with the current AML (Anti-Money Laundering) policies in place, it seems like Bitcoin’s decentralization is being challenged by regulations, especially with the introduction of KYC (Know Your Customer) requirements.

Here's a brief definition of AML and money laundering for context.

Quote

Money laundering is a type of financial crime. It involves taking criminally obtained proceeds (dirty money) and disguising their origins so they’ll appear to be from a legitimate source. Anti-money laundering (AML) refers to the activities financial institutions perform to achieve compliance with legal requirements to actively monitor for and report suspicious activities.

https://www.sas.com/en_ph/insights/fraud/anti-money-laundering.html

Can we still enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin?

In my opinion, KYC and AML procedures are not aimed against the decentralization of the first cryptocurrency, but against the anonymity and privacy of its users. This, of course, also causes great harm to the Bitcoin network.

If we talk about Bitcoin decentralization... Bitcoin decentralization lies, firstly, in the decentralization of mining, secondly, in the decentralization of coin ownership, thirdly, in the decentralization of development. Every time we hear that some country bans Bitcoin mining, we must understand that this is an attack on Bitcoin decentralization!

Every time we hear that some country bans Bitcoin transactions or introduces mandatory declaration of cryptocurrencies - we must understand that this is an attack on Bitcoin decentralization!

Every time we hear that Bitcoin ETF funds plan to use part of their profits to provide grants to developers - we must understand that this is an attack on the decentralization of the first cryptocurrency!

Bitcoin decentralization is a very big value and it would be a shame to lose it.

nakamura12

hero member

Activity: 2268

Merit: 669

Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013

I don't see any problem with AML or KYC since I am not doing any illegal activities. This is only in centralized exchange platform so decentralized platform still exist although most exchange platforms being made are centralized exchange platform which as you have known that they require KYC and follow the rules to avoid violating the AML.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 538

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Questat on September 28, 2024, 06:54:39 AM

Can we still enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin?

As regards the Anti money laundering policies, it is concerned to all centralized legal organizations, but Bitcoin doesn't have any centralized organizations or office, the centralized exchange that makes possible the trading of Bitcoin is only in compliance with the AML policy, that's why they ask for KYC, it doesn't stop the decentralization of Bitcoin. If you want decentralization, never use a centralized exchange that ask for your personal information before you can use the exchange.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Decentralization is such an ill-treated word. Bitcoin is not decentralized as long as there are no KYC procedures involved in some centralized exchanges. Bitcoin is decentralized as long as the individual can download the blockchain and autonomously verify everything without trusting a third party. That's the most appropriate definition for it.

Regulations might impact the market, but Bitcoin, the protocol, is immune. Do not forget that it was molded by the most severe financial crisis of the last century.

Topic: How did AML kill the decentralized market of Bitcoin? - page 2. (Read 716 times)