Topic: How do we deal with an internet blackout? - page 4. (Read 6791 times)
In scenarios where countries or large Geos are isolated form the rest of the Internet, I'd be concerned about which of the two blockchains will orphan the other when connectivity is restored.
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"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
It's entirely plausible to expect Internet access in a certain geographic region to be unavailable for days, possibly weeks, in the event of temporary anarchy. Everyone here understands how regulation and economic forces can devastate a society, sending it back significantly in terms of technology and standard of living.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
Agreed regarding precious metals.
By the end of 2013, basic meshnet infrastructure will have been rolled out. Exclusive reliance upon it will result in slow transmission speeds, but so long as there is power, there will be Internet access. Sometime in 2014-15, an even more resilient network should be gaining traction and capable of providing more robust services.
That sounds great. How does one get involved and help move this along?
It's entirely plausible to expect Internet access in a certain geographic region to be unavailable for days, possibly weeks, in the event of temporary anarchy. Everyone here understands how regulation and economic forces can devastate a society, sending it back significantly in terms of technology and standard of living.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
Agreed regarding precious metals.
By the end of 2013, basic meshnet infrastructure will have been rolled out. Exclusive reliance upon it will result in slow transmission speeds, but so long as there is power, there will be Internet access. Sometime in 2014-15, an even more resilient network should be gaining traction and capable of providing more robust services.
hero member
Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
Here's a relevant article to this discussion:
Syria's Internet Outage and the Future of Information Warfare
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/syrias-internet-outage-and-future-of.html
Syria's Internet Outage and the Future of Information Warfare
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/syrias-internet-outage-and-future-of.html
hero member
Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
It's entirely plausible to expect Internet access in a certain geographic region to be unavailable for days, possibly weeks, in the event of temporary anarchy. Everyone here understands how regulation and economic forces can devastate a society, sending it back significantly in terms of technology and standard of living.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
Yes, and for those having the resources, perhaps investing in a backup of sorts (sattelite connection / ham radio connection) and solar panels / wind mills, could be an idea?
Agreed. You would possess valuable assets that, in turn, make you valuable to your local community. This is one more asset/service you can offer in trade to help sustain yourself.
It's entirely plausible to expect Internet access in a certain geographic region to be unavailable for days, possibly weeks, in the event of temporary anarchy. Everyone here understands how regulation and economic forces can devastate a society, sending it back significantly in terms of technology and standard of living.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
Yes, and for those having the resources, perhaps investing in a backup of sorts (sattelite connection / ham radio connection) and solar panels / wind mills, could be an idea?
It's entirely plausible to expect Internet access in a certain geographic region to be unavailable for days, possibly weeks, in the event of temporary anarchy. Everyone here understands how regulation and economic forces can devastate a society, sending it back significantly in terms of technology and standard of living.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
I think the best way to deal with this is to have a small amount invested in physical precious metals, like one ounce gold and silver rounds. These are more readily spent if there's no electricity and the local currency collapses.
Yes, you highlight the difficulty of the question. There are multiple attack vectors and, I assume, multiple methods of countering each of them. I do not know all of those attack vectors and I know much less about how to deal with each of them. Perhaps others on this thread can post the most likely threats and their suggested countermeasures. Some good ideas have already been offered.
I also recognize that "the State" is not as "all powerful" as some people make them out to be but, nonetheless, they must still be respected and not under-estimated.
The question "what if the internet is blocked?" is a common objection to bitcoin's usefulness and my purpose of this thread is to help us understand/prepare for such a potential "Mad Max" event and, additionally, be better prepared to answer this important objection from bitcoin critics.
I also recognize that "the State" is not as "all powerful" as some people make them out to be but, nonetheless, they must still be respected and not under-estimated.
The question "what if the internet is blocked?" is a common objection to bitcoin's usefulness and my purpose of this thread is to help us understand/prepare for such a potential "Mad Max" event and, additionally, be better prepared to answer this important objection from bitcoin critics.
In general, your bitcoins would be safe as long as the block chain exists and you have copies of your wallet. This could be local or remote copies. As stated previously, you could still receive coins to your adresses, but unless you had some mean to send them, it would be difficult. I see a lot of interesting protocols for this has been suggested in this thread.
Holy fuck you are a paranoid little bitch today! Jesus, if we have to worry about Nazis hiding under the bad, we have bigger problems than how we pay for our pizza.
Hm. I don't know why you're trolling. The millitary in many countries will use all force necessary to control information in a state of war. When we talk about a blackout,
it's usually do to unrest in a country, for instance the govt. is shutting it down to prevent rebels from communicating and planning.
hero member
Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
I know there's been some discussion on this at various sources but what are the latest strategies to prepare for, and deal with this type of scenario? Specifically, what are the specific actions that one can take so he can continue to transact with bitcoin?
Before this can be answered, you need to define the question properly.
"How do we deal with an internet blackout?"
How would you define 'dealing' in this context, and what do you define as 'internet' and more specifically, what do you define as 'an internet blackout'.
We need precise questions to be able to answer them, or else we need to make assumptions that may be quite different from what you originally had in mind.
The reason you should define it more clearly is that 'The Internet' itself is designed especially for the purpose of never 'blacking out'. Redundant routes is what ensures this, and even if a country has shut down their internet, access could be possible through satellite.
And in a situation where a mesh net is used, the state could have special police with equipment searching for and punishing participants in such a network.
Yes, you highlight the difficulty of the question. There are multiple attack vectors and, I assume, multiple methods of countering each of them. I do not know all of those attack vectors and I know much less about how to deal with each of them. Perhaps others on this thread can post the most likely threats and their suggested countermeasures. Some good ideas have already been offered.
I also recognize that "the State" is not as "all powerful" as some people make them out to be but, nonetheless, they must still be respected and not under-estimated.
The question "what if the internet is blocked?" is a common objection to bitcoin's usefulness and my purpose of this thread is to help us understand/prepare for such a potential "Mad Max" event and, additionally, be better prepared to answer this important objection from bitcoin critics.
I know there's been some discussion on this at various sources but what are the latest strategies to prepare for, and deal with this type of scenario? Specifically, what are the specific actions that one can take so he can continue to transact with bitcoin?
Before this can be answered, you need to define the question properly.
"How do we deal with an internet blackout?"
How would you define 'dealing' in this context, and what do you define as 'internet' and more specifically, what do you define as 'an internet blackout'.
We need precise questions to be able to answer them, or else we need to make assumptions that may be quite different from what you originally had in mind.
The reason you should define it more clearly is that 'The Internet' itself is designed especially for the purpose of never 'blacking out'. Redundant routes is what ensures this, and even if a country has shut down their internet, access could be possible through satellite.
And in a situation where a mesh net is used, the state could have special police with equipment searching for and punishing participants in such a network.
I know there's been some discussion on this at various sources but what are the latest strategies to prepare for, and deal with this type of scenario? Specifically, what are the specific actions that one can take so he can continue to transact with bitcoin?
Before this can be answered, you need to define the question properly.
"How do we deal with an internet blackout?"
How would you define 'dealing' in this context, and what do you define as 'internet' and more specifically, what do you define as 'an internet blackout'.
We need precise questions to be able to answer them, or else we need to make assumptions that may be quite different from what you originally had in mind.
The reason you should define it more clearly is that 'The Internet' itself is designed especially for the purpose of never 'blacking out'. Redundant routes is what ensures this, and even if a country has shut down their internet, access could be possible through satellite.
And in a situation where a mesh net is used, the state could have special police with equipment searching for and punishing participants in such a network.
Remember connection via satellite 
But. isn't that even easier to blackout than any other route??? We don't put sats up the, the Governors do, and we couldn't keep 'em there cos we aren't military.I think he's talking about the case for example if Iran's government black out the Internet for the people of Iran, then satellite would definitely be an option. Iranian government can't take down other country's satellites. Satellite companies can provide people in Iran satellite internet (though I guess you have to smuggle equipment into Iran first).
+1 on bitcoincard.
If the scenario is that our internet is still accessible locally, but blocked out from the rest of the world/country (great firewall of china example), we'll still be able to trade Bitcoin here, as long as ONE node somewhere in the system has a connection to the outside (we just may not be able to mine due to delays in block chain propagation). If worse comes to worse, and AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and whoever else all go dark, at least in larger, more closely grouped together cities people may be able to switch their WiFi's to open Ad-Hoc mode, and set up a wireless mesh of sorts. It won't be easy, and will require both people with technical know-how knocking on doors, and WiFi owners consenting to it (likely out of desperation).
I do really really really REALLY look forward to when wireless mesh networks can be easily set up and be practical.
If the scenario is that our internet is still accessible locally, but blocked out from the rest of the world/country (great firewall of china example), we'll still be able to trade Bitcoin here, as long as ONE node somewhere in the system has a connection to the outside (we just may not be able to mine due to delays in block chain propagation). If worse comes to worse, and AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and whoever else all go dark, at least in larger, more closely grouped together cities people may be able to switch their WiFi's to open Ad-Hoc mode, and set up a wireless mesh of sorts. It won't be easy, and will require both people with technical know-how knocking on doors, and WiFi owners consenting to it (likely out of desperation).
I do really really really REALLY look forward to when wireless mesh networks can be easily set up and be practical.
Remember connection via satellite
But. isn't that even easier to blackout than any other route??? We don't put sats up the, the Governors do, and we couldn't keep 'em there cos we aren't military.I doubt for example if USA shuts down ALL internet that every satellite will be taking down (unless USA shoots them down, which would end up in world war 3 most liekly), other country have them and im sure if usa does that people will work with other countrys to help us internet people.
Well the government can for example shut down peoples internet (as in the case with the dns keylogger)
If the government one days cuts off verizon or cable or dial up or whatever internet you use, you could do this (while your internet is working)
Now i bet there is a easier way to do this, im just not GREAT with windows or linux programming. anyway:
1 - Get a twilio.com account (its a voice and sms api)
2 - Get a local numbeer from twilio
3 - write a script that will do ether of the following:
3.1 - Translate a websites data into a alphanumeric code (encrypted most likely?)(from your server side NOTE if your country blocks internet it would be smart to use another country for the server), then write a program for your Operating system that would translate the alphanumeric code into a webpage.
OR
3.2 - Translate a websites data into a sound-type code (kinda like dial up)(from your server side NOTE if your country blocks internet it would be smart to use another country for the server), then write a program for your Operating system that would translate the sound-like code into a webpage.
--NOTE--
I know 3.1 option is REALLY slow and might take 1 day to create a webpage - this is the worst case type thing.
3.2 is more like dial up which is slow but its better then no internet.
I was looking for a dial up type thing to use with twilio but no luck.
If the government one days cuts off verizon or cable or dial up or whatever internet you use, you could do this (while your internet is working)
Now i bet there is a easier way to do this, im just not GREAT with windows or linux programming. anyway:
1 - Get a twilio.com account (its a voice and sms api)
2 - Get a local numbeer from twilio
3 - write a script that will do ether of the following:
3.1 - Translate a websites data into a alphanumeric code (encrypted most likely?)(from your server side NOTE if your country blocks internet it would be smart to use another country for the server), then write a program for your Operating system that would translate the alphanumeric code into a webpage.
OR
3.2 - Translate a websites data into a sound-type code (kinda like dial up)(from your server side NOTE if your country blocks internet it would be smart to use another country for the server), then write a program for your Operating system that would translate the sound-like code into a webpage.
--NOTE--
I know 3.1 option is REALLY slow and might take 1 day to create a webpage - this is the worst case type thing.
3.2 is more like dial up which is slow but its better then no internet.
I was looking for a dial up type thing to use with twilio but no luck.
Remember connection via satellite
But. isn't that even easier to blackout than any other route??? We don't put sats up the, the Governors do, and we couldn't keep 'em there cos we aren't military. 
Remember connection via satellite
I know there's been some discussion on this at various sources but what are the latest strategies to prepare for, and deal with this type of scenario? Specifically, what are the specific actions that one can take so he can continue to transact with bitcoin?
Operate infrastructure without chokepoints.
- http://www.theFNF.org
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Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
The only thing you can't do without the internet locally is spend your coins. You can receive them, you don't need to worry about the blockchain, you just can't spend them. For that you need someone who does have access to the network in order to send the transaction.
I could envision a service that would allow incoming telephone calls where users could just tell their public and private key in order to make a transaction.
I could envision a service that would allow incoming telephone calls where users could just tell their public and private key in order to make a transaction.
Interesting. I could see the potential for that. The receiver of the payment would have to receive confirmation of the transaction - by calling the same service I presume. Both parties would therefore have to trust this service and the service would become a target. It would need some type of self-defense protocols.
I could also see physical bitcoins (ala Casascius Coins) trading at a premium provided that they are issued by a trusted issuer. They would already have to be in circulation though in order to make much of a difference.
It appears to me that this type of scenario (internet blackout) would force most people into barter situations where physical goods, gold, silver and Casascius Coins would be the predominant medium of exchange until internet access was restored.
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