How does one safely deposit large USD amounts ($50k-$100k) after selling BTC? - page 2.

colinistheman

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Quote from: bgibso01 on July 06, 2014, 08:54:07 PM

Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 08:52:26 PM

So I guess now the question is: Has anyone had a bank deposit coming from coinbase trigger a SAR report (Suspicious Activity Report)?

probably

I should clarify:

So I guess now the question is: Has anyone had a large bank deposit ($50k-$100k) coming from Coinbase trigger a SAR report (Suspicious Activity Report) which resulted in difficulty/inability to get the funds?

bgibso01

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If you are on the up and up, you really won't notice either way.

bgibso01

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Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 08:52:26 PM

So I guess now the question is: Has anyone had a bank deposit coming from coinbase trigger a SAR report (Suspicious Activity Report)?

probably

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 08:52:26 PM

So I guess now the question is: Has anyone had a bank deposit coming from coinbase trigger a SAR report (suspicious activity report)?

Nobody would know. They are prohibited from disclosing when a SAR is filed. The SAR database is "secret". You have no method of knowing if there is one or more SARs in your name right now.

colinistheman

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So I guess now the question is: Has anyone had a bank deposit coming from coinbase trigger a SAR report (Suspicious Activity Report) which resulted in difficulty/inability to get the funds?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 08:50:40 PM

So basically they won't tell me if I ask, and I won't know until I try? Sounds like not the answer I want to hear

That is the short version. Also "financial institution" covers more than just your bank. PayPal is a financial institution so is any MSB (like a bitcoin exchange registered with FinCEN). They all are under the same rules including the non-disclosure rules. The odds are if you have done any large or unusual transactions probably more than one SAR has been filed regarding your activity already. Welcome to the land of the free.

bgibso01

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Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 08:45:47 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 06, 2014, 08:42:56 PM

The CTR (currency transaction report) is for cash (as in those physical pieces of paper with dead presidents on them). A bank wire or ACH for $10,000 (or $10,000,000) doesn't warrant a CTR. However your bank may file a SAR (suspicious activity report) for just about financial transaction they find out of the ordinary (or even ordinary). The "S" is SAR is suspicious. It isn't proof of criminal activity or money laundering merely suspicion. That definition is very loosely defined and since the filings are secret, banks have nothing to lose by filing liberally.

This would be one of my concerns-- that the SAR would be applied because it is a bitcoin-related transaction. I would have to rule that out before doing the transfer. I guess asking the bank before I do it would be the best way.

Honestly, they probably wouldn't tell you that they are going to send one. You'll know about the CTR, but not necessarily the SAR. I'm fairly sure I've had a few SARs already. I usually have 1 CTR every month or so. Sometimes its better to have them when you are dealing in a cash business than not ever showing any. As an auditor, that's a bigger red flag to me.

colinistheman

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So basically they won't tell me if I ask (if my transfer from bitcoin->USD->bank account would trigger any flags), and I won't know until I try? Sounds un-fun and risky.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 08:45:47 PM

This would be one of my concerns-- that the SAR would be applied because it is a bitcoin-related transaction. I would have to rule that out before doing the transfer. I guess asking the bank before I do it would be the best way.

All financial institutions are prohibits by criminal and civil penalties from disclosing how to avoid a SAR, what transactions might constitute a SAR, or even if they have or have not filed a SAR against you or any other account holders. The penalties are rather excessive so don't expect a bank to break this rule. Financial institution in this case is any entity which is a mandated to file a SAR. That would include banks, brokerages, and MSBs (like bitcoin exchanges).

colinistheman

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Quote from: bgibso01 on July 06, 2014, 08:45:08 PM

Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 07:18:56 PM

Does anyone have any experience with withdrawing large dollar amounts to their bank account with coinbase?

I haven't had any issues with coinbase xfers. This is not cash from a banking secrecy standpoint as it is an electronic transfer. BSA is looking specifically for 'cash' at the bank teller level when talking about the nice little form they give me attitude on

The real quesiton is what kind of reporting requirements does Coinbase have. I'm not sure they have any right now, but I'm betting it will become like a 1099-k (Paypal) or 1099-B (brokerage) in the future so that the IRS knows what's going on.

Since the IRS has declared btc to be property, be sure to hold large amounts 1yr +1 day so you can get capital gains treatment.

Cool thanks for the advice.

Yeah, I definitely won't be bringing a wheelbarrow full of dollar bills into the bank Tongue

It will be coming electronically from coinbase.com

colinistheman

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 06, 2014, 08:42:56 PM

The CTR (currency transaction report) is for cash (as in those physical pieces of paper with dead presidents on them). A bank wire or ACH for $10,000 (or $10,000,000) doesn't warrant a CTR. However your bank may file a SAR (suspicious activity report) for just about financial transaction they find out of the ordinary (or even ordinary). The "S" is SAR is suspicious. It isn't proof of criminal activity or money laundering merely suspicion. That definition is very loosely defined and since the filings are secret, banks have nothing to lose by filing liberally.

This would be one of my concerns-- that the SAR would be applied because it is a bitcoin-related transaction. I would have to rule that out before doing the transfer. I guess asking the bank before I do it would be the best way.

bgibso01

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Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 07:18:56 PM

Does anyone have any experience with withdrawing large dollar amounts to their bank account with coinbase?

I haven't had any issues with coinbase xfers. This is not cash from a banking secrecy standpoint as it is an electronic transfer. BSA is looking specifically for 'cash' at the bank teller level when talking about the nice little form they give me attitude on

The real quesiton is what kind of reporting requirements does Coinbase have. I'm not sure they have any right now, but I'm betting it will become like a 1099-k (Paypal) or 1099-B (brokerage) in the future so that the IRS knows what's going on.

Since the IRS has declared btc to be property, be sure to hold large amounts 1yr +1 day so you can get capital gains treatment.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

The CTR (currency transaction report) is for cash (as in those physical pieces of paper with dead presidents on them). A bank wire or ACH for $10,000 (or $10,000,000) doesn't warrant a CTR. However your bank may file a SAR (suspicious activity report) for just about financial transaction they find out of the ordinary (or even ordinary). The "S" is SAR is suspicious. It isn't proof of criminal activity or money laundering merely suspicion. That definition is very loosely defined and since the filings are secret, banks have nothing to lose by filing liberally.

colinistheman

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Quote from: lonestranger on July 06, 2014, 07:46:17 PM

Your bank account is linked to coinbase, right? You're not holding bitcoin elsewhere in an "offshore" account, right, so you're not using an actual wire transfer? If you're just dealing with Coinbase then your bank will see where the funds came from and you should check with your bank what their policy is on bitcoin. My bank was opposed to bitcoin and accepted the coinbase transfer one time only and I was warned not to do it again.

Good advice. I will make sure before I do the transfer that it is ok. I have a couple of bank accounts with different banks, so I can find one that will work before I transfer the funds. All my accounts are in the USA, so nothing is offshore.

colinistheman

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Quote from: LostDutchman on July 06, 2014, 08:34:07 PM

Depsoiting is perfectly safe and seucre.

It's getting out tons of fiat cash that gets sticky.

Well then I've already accomplished the difficult part Wink

colinistheman

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Quote from: boliu on July 06, 2014, 07:51:33 PM

withdraw $9999 each time. and open multiple accounts

I had thought of that myself but from the articles I've read that is a bad idea because it is trying to avoiding flags like jbreher and LostDutchman said. So I won't be doing that!

Quote from: franky1 on July 06, 2014, 07:30:46 PM

the question i would ask is why would you want $50k in one day..

in the future just sell what you need. $500 a week to pay the bills and feed yourself, maybe $20k to get a new car.. but cashing 100% out.. never.. think about retirement not a quick lottery win that you end up spending in a day

Well, it's specifically an investment and I want to pay off a large credit card debt. I have more btc that I will be holding much much longer (Many, many years). Don't worry I won't be selling my whole stash (not by a longshot)-- I'm not that stupid.

But if I sell, it will be from a wallet that I am using specifically for a shorter-term amount.

LostDutchman

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Quote from: boliu on July 06, 2014, 07:51:33 PM

withdraw $9999 each time. and open multiple accounts

NOT a good idea and believe it or not, can be a crime in itself.

That'll trip the triggers faster'n you can say "Draw Pardner!"

LostDutchman

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Quote from: colinistheman on July 06, 2014, 07:04:23 PM

What do you mean by keeping it cash? It's already in BTC.

I am speculating and looking to recoup some of that into cash. It sounds like you're saying I can't sell my BTC for USD and deposit that into my bank account safely (in the amounts I am referring to).

For example, by using coinbase.com to make the sale of btc into usd

Depsoiting is perfectly safe and seucre.

It's getting out tons of fiat cash that gets sticky.

jbreher

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Quote from: boliu on July 06, 2014, 07:51:33 PM

withdraw $9999 each time. and open multiple accounts

... and trigger a SAR for obvious attempt to mislead the regulators. Not a good plan.

You'll need to make a determination how friendly your bank is to bitcoin. If friendly, then just carry on - because you are not doing anything illegal nor immoral. If, however, your bank is, or may become, antagonistic toward bitcoin, then now is the time to start shopping around for a better bank.

mel2000

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Why not just make multiple <$10k deposits from Coinbase? Avoiding the possible bank hassle of a single large deposit is a good enough reason for making multiple smaller deposits.

Topic: How does one safely deposit large USD amounts ($50k-$100k) after selling BTC? - page 2. (Read 10774 times)