How freelancing websites killed design and developement bussinesses ...

Silberman

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Quote from: sana54210 on October 07, 2020, 01:55:02 PM

Freelancing websites didn't killed designing and development business, it killed it for high paid countries charging more for the same stuff, this is capitalist competition and there is no way it could have sustained.

Some American who studied in college and makes let's say level 50 websites (making up levels here) and there is some Asian dude who has worked on the same thing all his life and can do level 50 website as well, one lives in a nation that requires at least 30-40 thousand dollars a year to survive, probably more if possible while the other one needs like $10k at most, probably less as well, obviously that one will charge less for the same job. Why would anyone pick the American and pay more if they are getting the same level of service from someone much cheaper?

That is one side of it, but those living in first world countries can still charge their old wages as long as they offered something you cannot get from the cheapest option, for example for big jobs you could offer to met them in person from time to time instead of just doing online communication, many clients still prefer to sit down face to face with their employees and ask directly what they want from them, this is something that a person at the other side of the world cannot do and could be enough to get you the job over someone that is offering a cheap price, but the problem like always is that many do not want to adapt and want to still charge as much money as before without making any additional effort and that is truly not possible now.

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Quote from: mindrust on October 07, 2020, 02:25:45 PM

Quote from: sana54210 on October 07, 2020, 01:55:02 PM

Freelancing websites didn't killed designing and development business, it killed it for high paid countries charging more for the same stuff, this is capitalist competition and there is no way it could have sustained.

Some American who studied in college and makes let's say level 50 websites (making up levels here) and there is some Asian dude who has worked on the same thing all his life and can do level 50 website as well, one lives in a nation that requires at least 30-40 thousand dollars a year to survive, probably more if possible while the other one needs like $10k at most, probably less as well, obviously that one will charge less for the same job. Why would anyone pick the American and pay more if they are getting the same level of service from someone much cheaper?

Freelancing platforms just turned to the world in to a big country.

You don't even need to have a work permit to work for a company that operates in a foreign country. You pay your taxes to your own government but your employer is from some other country.

Employers are happy for being able to find cheap work force, Employees are happy because they can make more money than what they usually could from their shitty jobs in their own countries.

And who's getting fucked?

Like you described, those who paid tens of thousands of dollars to get a college degree in a developed country are.

In reality, you don't need a damn college degree to build web applications... Everybody can do that. And that's what everybody's doing right now. Being able to build mobile and web apps will be as common (and as worthless) as knowing MS Excel in the near future I believe.

Maybe people should spend their time on learning the real engineering stuff instead.

this kind of freelancing job actually help a lot of unemployed programmers or coders. that is very right, they dont need to get work permit or any of that sort to be employed by foreign country as they can do their job at the comfort of their homes. employers can always choose, if that programmer is doing a shitty job, he can always hire a better one. so he has actually lots of options to choose from.
i agree that some of these devs earned their degree in reputable universities paying thousands of dollars while there are some that only learned their programming skills via net or cheap school. but everyone has the privilege to hone his skills by experience. and sometimes those skills are not learned at the four corners of your school.
those hard core programmers will not be beaten by second-rate programmers as you can already see their work via their portfolio and feedback from their clients. so if you really want to pay cheap, you will also get substandard services. still the choice is from the employers.

finaleshot2016

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I guess it didn't kill the design and development business because it's very wide, there's plenty of technology businesses out there where you can earn even more. Technology is developing day by day, and most of the people are now capable of doing things without even getting a degree.

I know that designers and programmers are capable of leveling up their skills in an instant because they've mastered the foundation of doing web platforms and it's their advantage to make things on their side.

alisonwonder

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Quote from: FanEagle on October 10, 2020, 10:09:50 AM

Well, you might be right, but I still think that in some ways they have made things easier for us, the problem is with designers.
I have worked on freelance websites as a writer, and this was the same challenge I faced with some writers agreeing to charge way too less than what they are supposed to charge.

Some of them will even accept pennies from their clients just to get good ratings from them. It’s up to the client and the level of work they need, a big client with deep pockets wouldn’t want to mess around and hire writers that will provide them with a less than standard. With time you get to know good clients and you can start Business with them outside those platforms.

When we become freelance workers like that, we must be diligent in looking for customers, because we have to be able to implement a ball-picking system, meaning that we as designers actively offer to several high-ranking companies with our own portfolio, what becomes difficult is for those who are new to the world. freelance designers and have no experience at all have to work with other designers.

FanEagle

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Well, you might be right, but I still think that in some ways they have made things easier for us, the problem is with designers.
I have worked on freelance websites as a writer, and this was the same challenge I faced with some writers agreeing to charge way too less than what they are supposed to charge.

Some of them will even accept pennies from their clients just to get good ratings from them. It’s up to the client and the level of work they need, a big client with deep pockets wouldn’t want to mess around and hire writers that will provide them with a less than standard. With time you get to know good clients and you can start Business with them outside those platforms.

darewaller

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I don’t think this is something you should worry yourself much about, it’s best that you focus on making your job great. They might charge low prices but that doesn’t mean they will offer the same quality of work you will be able to offer (that’s if you really know what you’re doing).

I think another thing is the way your present yourself , just like some guys in my street would say – it’s all about packaging lol. As for the fees that these freelancing platforms are charging, maybe it’s best that you move your business to somewhere else, you can check out LinkedIn, there are lots of remote jobs that are being posted there, even freelancing jobs.

proTECH77

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Yes, freelancing website has killed design and development businesses in some part of the countries. Freelancing website also create more rooms for scammer to have access to some users private address because they didn't pay any fees to join the website to grow their business .
That's why I don't like to choose to operate with freelance website because they can just decide to charge you without you notice it. I think freelancing website has reduce so much design and development businesses during the lockdown.

tbterryboy

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Quote from: n0ne on October 07, 2020, 10:39:44 PM

Freelancing hasn't killed any business, they've enriched the people's life. Just think of a person working for an tech industry, he might get a pay of $1000/month, but what the company charges from his client will be much high for the work done by that specific employee.

This js the reality with every corporate network. In such case there should be fair pay, when that isn't happening people look to have direct dealing with the client making it profitable for the client and the developer eliminating the thridman who eats the entire profit.

Yes, I have worked with a few Asian countries guys who work on cheaper rates because their wages are low and I am really happy with their work too so the work that was being done for a lot money is now being done by the Asian guys for cheaper and they also get more work so it is better for them as well and the guys here who used to charge much higher are now adjusting their charges to a reasonable amount. Until there is competition in the market the market will never improve and some people will take advantage and charge high.

At the other hand clients from Asian countries got foreign employers who pay better and also do not find mistakes in their work as the locals might do. I agree that freelancing platforms have only improved the overall business and the quality of the work for both employer and employee.

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Quote from: Mauser on October 05, 2020, 03:31:17 AM

I think freelancing has a huge impact on many sectors, not only on design and development business. It increase competitiveness dramatically in an area because single employees are in direct competition with big companies. And the ones freelancing are saving on a lot of costs compared to a big company with a lot of department.
The corona pandemic just accelerated this trend, many people became unemployment and are looking for new ways to earn money. With most people working from home anyways these days offering your services independently is just the next step. I wouldn't say they are killing the jobs, it's just shifting in a new direction because demand is still there.

I would say they are doing the real job without proper renumeration. The companies no longer desire stationed people but profers easy and faster means of getting same optimal benefit .

blockman

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I've met a lot of freelancers that don't depend to freelancing websites. They know their worth and if a client low balls them, they wouldn't accept the job. It's very simple as a freelancer to see your worth and you are the one to decide whether you'll accept the offer or not.
With too many platforms that we have, it's very easy to maintain one's reputation in such platforms and show your portfolio there if you don't to stay in any freelancing website.

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Quote from: n0ne on October 07, 2020, 10:39:44 PM

Freelancing hasn't killed any business, they've enriched the people's life. Just think of a person working for an tech industry, he might get a pay of $1000/month, but what the company charges from his client will be much high for the work done by that specific employee.

This js the reality with every corporate network. In such case there should be fair pay, when that isn't happening people look to have direct dealing with the client making it profitable for the client and the developer eliminating the thridman who eats the entire profit.

You have to understand that working in a company means working and earning as a team, I gave an example;

an company offering services for $ 1k for the product clients need (can be any service) Incidentally, the job can be done by 1 or 2 people, it is impossible for the company to pay the salaries of employees who do $ 1k (based on service agreements with clients). many things that companies think about that is paying all employees, marketing, company management, and bill costs (electricity, internet, building rent, taxes, and water).

I've seen how freelancers compete unfairly by making prices as low as possible for the cost of website creation and design services however, they are only able to generate 1 or 2 subscribers in 1 month, I thought it was a waste of time. it is better for them to work in a company, then develop their abilities while devising plans to create their own company when they are financially and mentally able..

Maroons

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Quote from: n0ne on October 07, 2020, 10:39:44 PM

Freelancing hasn't killed any business, they've enriched the people's life. Just think of a person working for an tech industry, he might get a pay of $1000/month, but what the company charges from his client will be much high for the work done by that specific employee.

This js the reality with every corporate network. In such case there should be fair pay, when that isn't happening people look to have direct dealing with the client making it profitable for the client and the developer eliminating the thridman who eats the entire profit.

This also helps those individuals that can't seem to find a job right now, it is like a training ground for them on what kind of clients they will see once they enter the companies, freelancing website is also a great way to find people who don't have a degree in the field of technology but has the skills to be a degree holder, I mean a person can be as good as a professional even without going to school but of course apply in a company needs a degree to be able to be hired so freelancing sites is a safe haven for them and plus there is more freedom in their but in my opinion freelancing doesn't really affect it that much because most people prefer being in a company and being a client of a company

n0ne

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Freelancing hasn't killed any business, they've enriched the people's life. Just think of a person working for an tech industry, he might get a pay of $1000/month, but what the company charges from his client will be much high for the work done by that specific employee.

This js the reality with every corporate network. In such case there should be fair pay, when that isn't happening people look to have direct dealing with the client making it profitable for the client and the developer eliminating the thridman who eats the entire profit.

mindrust

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Quote from: sana54210 on October 07, 2020, 01:55:02 PM

Freelancing websites didn't killed designing and development business, it killed it for high paid countries charging more for the same stuff, this is capitalist competition and there is no way it could have sustained.

Some American who studied in college and makes let's say level 50 websites (making up levels here) and there is some Asian dude who has worked on the same thing all his life and can do level 50 website as well, one lives in a nation that requires at least 30-40 thousand dollars a year to survive, probably more if possible while the other one needs like $10k at most, probably less as well, obviously that one will charge less for the same job. Why would anyone pick the American and pay more if they are getting the same level of service from someone much cheaper?

Freelancing platforms just turned to the world in to a big country.

You don't even need to have a work permit to work for a company that operates in a foreign country. You pay your taxes to your own government but your employer is from some other country.

Employers are happy for being able to find cheap work force, Employees are happy because they can make more money than what they usually could from their shitty jobs in their own countries.

And who's getting fucked?

Like you described, those who paid tens of thousands of dollars to get a college degree in a developed country are.

In reality, you don't need a damn college degree to build web applications... Everybody can do that. And that's what everybody's doing right now. Being able to build mobile and web apps will be as common (and as worthless) as knowing MS Excel in the near future I believe.

Maybe people should spend their time on learning the real engineering stuff instead.

sana54210

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Freelancing websites didn't killed designing and development business, it killed it for high paid countries charging more for the same stuff, this is capitalist competition and there is no way it could have sustained.

Some American who studied in college and makes let's say level 50 websites (making up levels here) and there is some Asian dude who has worked on the same thing all his life and can do level 50 website as well, one lives in a nation that requires at least 30-40 thousand dollars a year to survive, probably more if possible while the other one needs like $10k at most, probably less as well, obviously that one will charge less for the same job. Why would anyone pick the American and pay more if they are getting the same level of service from someone much cheaper?

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Quote from: milewilda on September 30, 2020, 04:27:18 PM

Quote from: Silberman on September 30, 2020, 03:16:18 PM

Websites like Upwork have a monopoly of the market and they know it, this is why they can exploit their workers for 20% of their pay and most just keep silent about the abuse because they want to keep the chance of making money on the platform but the truth is that is quite difficult, not only clients ask you to do something for cheap for the most part they do not even know what they want so it is almost impossible to make an effective proposal to try to gain the job.

You wont really have any choice but to deal with it and you're right that people would just deal with those deductions rather than losing up their job or spot, knowing that getting some freelance jobs online is really difficult due to competition thats why they do just swallow their pride and just accept into their pay even though they do know that deductions are too much.Do they had that options left? none. So they'll stay on what it is.
Actually this doesnt only killed design and dev business but on other skill-set as well.Is there any other way? theres none unless if there are freelancing platform would offer much more lower but as said that
majority of them are on monopoly side of things then you can expect these numbers.

The only real option for those in those professions is to try Upwork for a time and then gain a reputation and clients that way and then try to get them out of the platform, this is without a doubt hard but if you can make a very good job many clients will follow you as there are many businesses that do not really care that much about the cost of the service as much as they care about the quality and the time it takes them to receive the service they want.

Mauser

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I think freelancing has a huge impact on many sectors, not only on design and development business. It increase competitiveness dramatically in an area because single employees are in direct competition with big companies. And the ones freelancing are saving on a lot of costs compared to a big company with a lot of department.
The corona pandemic just accelerated this trend, many people became unemployment and are looking for new ways to earn money. With most people working from home anyways these days offering your services independently is just the next step. I wouldn't say they are killing the jobs, it's just shifting in a new direction because demand is still there.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on September 23, 2020, 10:07:15 AM

Freelancing websites reduces the inequality in their earnings no matter what region they are from because skills matter more for someone to earn not the country of origin.If you accept it or not but you have to accept the reality and survive with what you make.

Also now that these websites exist we as a designer know the true value of our efforts, I am myself a part time designer and I was being hired by my local people for very cheap but now so many platforms are available I actually love to work for people outside my country because they pay better and they require less changes/complications. Plus when the employer knows that you need money they actually make you work more and pay less but when you work remotely for unknown clients they only need what they mention and don't harass you for more work even after the work is complete.

I am actually very thankful to freelancing sites like fiverr and others no matter how someone is at loss because of them like OP said, but I am positively influenced and actually people who hate them might be those who have low skill level and now insecure of their job as companies can hire new talent as cheaper prices.

0xBitcoins

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While freelancing platforms might have reduced profits for some designers or coders because they take fees but at the other hand they actually opened a massive market for idle freelancers and companies that required workers might be overpaying because they did not had any platform to hire workers.

I understand that they are charging fees but they are not forcing you to join them or work through them but if you do, they have all the right to take their fees because they are providing their valuable platform to both seller and the buy and they also need to pay their team who work behind the smooth working platform and also maintenance fees,etc.

I understand the frustration from some users but more good is being created by them as compared to the minor harm to some developers.

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Quote from: Silberman on September 30, 2020, 03:16:18 PM

Quote from: 2bfree on September 21, 2020, 03:34:57 PM

Upwork use to be good but they take 20% and people demand you to just 2 hours of hoops before they will hire you it's horrible. What an abuse.

Someone needs to make a reasonable platform with 3 to 4% with little waste of time maybe short test project and they like you they give you more not waste 2 hours to give you 40 Euros of work that takes you a day to finish then they want 20 fixes.

Websites like Upwork have a monopoly of the market and they know it, this is why they can exploit their workers for 20% of their pay and most just keep silent about the abuse because they want to keep the chance of making money on the platform but the truth is that is quite difficult, not only clients ask you to do something for cheap for the most part they do not even know what they want so it is almost impossible to make an effective proposal to try to gain the job.

You wont really have any choice but to deal with it and you're right that people would just deal with those deductions rather than losing up their job or spot, knowing that getting some freelance jobs online is really difficult due to competition thats why they do just swallow their pride and just accept into their pay even though they do know that deductions are too much.Do they had that options left? none. So they'll stay on what it is.
Actually this doesnt only killed design and dev business but on other skill-set as well.Is there any other way? theres none unless if there are freelancing platform would offer much more lower but as said that
majority of them are on monopoly side of things then you can expect these numbers.

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