How high a of a market cap would bitcoin need to have to be 'stable'? - page 2.

Este Nuno

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Quote from: Harley997 on July 11, 2014, 08:17:52 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 11, 2014, 03:48:18 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 10, 2014, 07:08:34 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 09, 2014, 03:51:35 PM

Quote from: desired_username on July 09, 2014, 03:07:11 PM

Stability doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but the distribution of coins.

If the market cap is 1 trillion, but there are still whales with considerable amount of btc then they will be able to crash the markets.

I wouldn't say it doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but that both things are issues related to stability. The larger the market cap the more money it's going to take to move the market on a day to day basis. But yes, someone who holds a large percentage of coins will have the ability to crash the market in most cases unless the buy support is incredibly large.

But when the market cap is higher, people who have the ability to manipulate the price will have less of an incentive to do so as they have more to lose. Also people who have existing amounts of bitcoin would have less incentives to try to crash the price as they now have a lot more to lose.

Right. Unless they receive some non public information or early public information that might want to cause them to sell all their coins at once. Like some sort of government crackdown or major technical issue. If they feel that they would lose more by holding then that's one situation where they might have more to gain by unloading all their coins at once.

It would not just be from non-public information, it would be any potential negative information that would cause people to wish to sell bitcoin. The thing is that by the time bitcoin would get to be at a level that is "stable" the vast majority of these issues would likely have worked themselves out.

Yeah, hopefully. But there is always going to be some risk just as there is in any technology or any endeavour for that matter.

Harley997

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Quote from: Este Nuno on July 11, 2014, 03:48:18 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 10, 2014, 07:08:34 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 09, 2014, 03:51:35 PM

Quote from: desired_username on July 09, 2014, 03:07:11 PM

Stability doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but the distribution of coins.

If the market cap is 1 trillion, but there are still whales with considerable amount of btc then they will be able to crash the markets.

I wouldn't say it doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but that both things are issues related to stability. The larger the market cap the more money it's going to take to move the market on a day to day basis. But yes, someone who holds a large percentage of coins will have the ability to crash the market in most cases unless the buy support is incredibly large.

But when the market cap is higher, people who have the ability to manipulate the price will have less of an incentive to do so as they have more to lose. Also people who have existing amounts of bitcoin would have less incentives to try to crash the price as they now have a lot more to lose.

Right. Unless they receive some non public information or early public information that might want to cause them to sell all their coins at once. Like some sort of government crackdown or major technical issue. If they feel that they would lose more by holding then that's one situation where they might have more to gain by unloading all their coins at once.

It would not just be from non-public information, it would be any potential negative information that would cause people to wish to sell bitcoin. The thing is that by the time bitcoin would get to be at a level that is "stable" the vast majority of these issues would likely have worked themselves out.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 10, 2014, 07:08:34 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 09, 2014, 03:51:35 PM

Quote from: desired_username on July 09, 2014, 03:07:11 PM

Stability doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but the distribution of coins.

If the market cap is 1 trillion, but there are still whales with considerable amount of btc then they will be able to crash the markets.

I wouldn't say it doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but that both things are issues related to stability. The larger the market cap the more money it's going to take to move the market on a day to day basis. But yes, someone who holds a large percentage of coins will have the ability to crash the market in most cases unless the buy support is incredibly large.

But when the market cap is higher, people who have the ability to manipulate the price will have less of an incentive to do so as they have more to lose. Also people who have existing amounts of bitcoin would have less incentives to try to crash the price as they now have a lot more to lose.

Right. Unless they receive some non public information or early public information that might want to cause them to sell all their coins at once. Like some sort of government crackdown or major technical issue. If they feel that they would lose more by holding then that's one situation where they might have more to gain by unloading all their coins at once.

DannyElfman

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Quote from: Este Nuno on July 09, 2014, 03:51:35 PM

Quote from: desired_username on July 09, 2014, 03:07:11 PM

Stability doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but the distribution of coins.

If the market cap is 1 trillion, but there are still whales with considerable amount of btc then they will be able to crash the markets.

I wouldn't say it doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but that both things are issues related to stability. The larger the market cap the more money it's going to take to move the market on a day to day basis. But yes, someone who holds a large percentage of coins will have the ability to crash the market in most cases unless the buy support is incredibly large.

But when the market cap is higher, people who have the ability to manipulate the price will have less of an incentive to do so as they have more to lose. Also people who have existing amounts of bitcoin would have less incentives to try to crash the price as they now have a lot more to lose.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: desired_username on July 09, 2014, 03:07:11 PM

Stability doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but the distribution of coins.

If the market cap is 1 trillion, but there are still whales with considerable amount of btc then they will be able to crash the markets.

I wouldn't say it doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but that both things are issues related to stability. The larger the market cap the more money it's going to take to move the market on a day to day basis. But yes, someone who holds a large percentage of coins will have the ability to crash the market in most cases unless the buy support is incredibly large.

desired_username

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Stability doesn't have anything to do with market cap, but the distribution of coins.

If the market cap is 1 trillion, but there are still whales with considerable amount of btc then they will be able to crash the markets.

DannyElfman

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Quote from: Gargulan on July 08, 2014, 12:42:16 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 07, 2014, 06:18:31 PM

Quote from: Keyara on July 07, 2014, 12:54:44 AM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

And small event such as the FBI auction cause price to go up over 10% should let people know how volatile the price is.

A 10% change in the market price of bitcoin is not very big by bitcoin standards. It has seen price swings of 50% or more in both directions in one day.

A good reason why is it not a good payment system. Hard to set consumer protection policy if the price can change this much.

That is true today, but the number and size of these large price swings have decreased over time that the market for bitcoin has existed.

smoothie

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I'd say above 1 trillion to be "stable".

Gargulan

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Quote from: DannyElfman on July 07, 2014, 06:18:31 PM

Quote from: Keyara on July 07, 2014, 12:54:44 AM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

And small event such as the FBI auction cause price to go up over 10% should let people know how volatile the price is.

A 10% change in the market price of bitcoin is not very big by bitcoin standards. It has seen price swings of 50% or more in both directions in one day.

A good reason why is it not a good payment system. Hard to set consumer protection policy if the price can change this much.

DannyElfman

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Quote from: Keyara on July 07, 2014, 12:54:44 AM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

And small event such as the FBI auction cause price to go up over 10% should let people know how volatile the price is.

A 10% change in the market price of bitcoin is not very big by bitcoin standards. It has seen price swings of 50% or more in both directions in one day.

devphp

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I would say, +-10% yearly and even quarterly fluctuations is stable enough, doesn't have to be 1-3% to call it stable. Currencies on Forex can fluctuate 10% and people are ok with that even though they have immense support from Central banks to give them some pegging.

Besides, if real (not published in stats) yearly inflation of world fiat currencies is 5-10% on average, having 10% fluctuations in Bitcoin is as good as it gets. With that in mind, I would say, it's already reached that point where it can be called stable.

Now that artificial Mt.Gox liquidity is gone, the market has reached more fair valuations, and buyers seem to be in match with sellers recently. If Bitcoin price changes on average 1%/month against USD when calculated at the end of the year, that is stable and good enough for all practical purposes.

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: tinof on July 07, 2014, 12:00:28 AM

Quote from: InwardContour on July 05, 2014, 03:59:02 PM

This would be unusual. The US dollar is a very stable currency and for all intensive purposes will not fall at the rate needed to make bitcoin go up substantially

Dollar is not stable. Look at commodity chart for the last 10 years.

This the dollar has been on a deflationary streak for a long time in terms of purchasing power as well

With reservations for the wealthy elite lol. Real Income Changes
http://realfactbias.blogspot.ca/2012/02/no-dollar-did-not-really-lose-95-of-its.html

Keyara

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Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

And small event such as the FBI auction cause price to go up over 10% should let people know how volatile the price is.

tinof

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Quote from: InwardContour on July 05, 2014, 03:59:02 PM

This would be unusual. The US dollar is a very stable currency and for all intensive purposes will not fall at the rate needed to make bitcoin go up substantially

Dollar is not stable. Look at commodity chart for the last 10 years.

aminorex

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Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 05, 2014, 10:12:08 PM

The Dollar is simply too stable for this to be a possibility. A change of 1% in the value of the dollar is considered to be extreme. It is unusual for bitcoin to not trade in a range of at least 5% in any given day.

You just don't get it, do you? The only reason the dollar appears to be stable is that all other major currencies are pegged to it after a fashion: When the fed wants to devalue, they coordinate with other central banks, thus avoiding competitive devaluations. Moreover the major relative moves are very trendy and take much longer than days.

aminorex

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Quote from: InwardContour on July 05, 2014, 03:59:02 PM

This would be unusual. The US dollar is a very stable currency and for all intensive purposes will not fall at the rate needed to make bitcoin go up substantially

I LOLed.

ShakyhandsBTCer

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It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 05, 2014, 08:45:05 AM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

Well it could be rising in price relative to the USD but still stable relative to gold and oil. I.e. the USD is going down instead of bitcoin going up.

The Dollar is simply too stable for this to be a possibility. A change of 1% in the value of the dollar is considered to be extreme. It is unusual for bitcoin to not trade in a range of at least 5% in any given day.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: InwardContour on July 05, 2014, 03:59:02 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 05, 2014, 08:45:05 AM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

Well it could be rising in price relative to the USD but still stable relative to gold and oil. I.e. the USD is going down instead of bitcoin going up.

This would be unusual. The US dollar is a very stable currency and for all intensive purposes will not fall at the rate needed to make bitcoin go up substantially

Yeah, I don't think that it is likely at all. I was just commenting on a hypothetical where the price could be rising and still be considered stable.

InwardContour

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Quote from: Este Nuno on July 05, 2014, 08:45:05 AM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

Well it could be rising in price relative to the USD but still stable relative to gold and oil. I.e. the USD is going down instead of bitcoin going up.

This would be unusual. The US dollar is a very stable currency and for all intensive purposes will not fall at the rate needed to make bitcoin go up substantially

Este Nuno

legendary

Activity: 826

Merit: 1000

amarha

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on July 04, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on July 03, 2014, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on July 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM

Given how mining work for bitcoin, I do not think the price will stable.

It has to keep going up so miners can have "profit" in either profit or transaction fee.

Well, it can still go up and be relatively stable as well.

Generally speaking if something is rising in price at a rapid rate it will not be considered stable.

Well it could be rising in price relative to the USD but still stable relative to gold and oil. I.e. the USD is going down instead of bitcoin going up.

Topic: How high a of a market cap would bitcoin need to have to be 'stable'? - page 2. (Read 6187 times)