How investing in bitcoin's blockchain benefits bitcoin in general ?

Fakhoury

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Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 06:37:57 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 06:25:15 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 06:06:24 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:55:14 PM

I understand that you don't want to give an accurate answer, we are just speculating.

Could we reach in a decade from now to 6 figures, what do you think ?

Regarding the 21M cap, I've two question

1. Can this cap be altered in any means ?
2. I know we are talking here about scarcity, but remember that the future is for micropayments along with Internet of Things and as you know, bitcoin is much divisble, so how will the scarcity help here when few satoshies for example could buy you something you need which costs few dollars for example

Yes I do think we could reach 6 figures within next decade.

1. Never. Ever. Ever
2. Scarcity is in reference to the 21M cap. The importance is that the value of everyone's holding will never be diluted like they are with fiat. It's not about the divisibility of a single Bitcoin. If each satoshis are worth too much for micro-transactions then we can adjust the system so that we can use sub-satoshis.

I think you have bolded the wrong question because my OCD is killing me Grin

1. Why do you think we may reach 6 figures in 10 years from now ? In other words, how do you see bitcoin from technological perspective in a decade from now ?
2. Could you please elaborate more on the bolded part of the above "2." part, as I still didn't get what you want to say.

Never ever was in reference to your question about altering the cap. This would corrupt the deflationary aspect of Bitcoin which is one of its main property.

6 figures is probable because existing financial system is headed for ruins and Bitcoin could eventually be the only safe refuge for wealth out of the reach of totalitarian governments.

Bitcoin itself won't be much different 10 years from now. Layers will be built on top of it and no one can pretend to have the imagination to suggest what use might come out of these. Think sidechains, payment channels (Lightning Network), IoT and machine to machine transactions, etc, etc.

I still don't get how bitcoin scarce when it's divided to satoshi's and even if it's divided to sub-satoshi's, how is it scrace if that sub-satoshi could have a value of $0.1 for example.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 06:25:15 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 06:06:24 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:55:14 PM

I understand that you don't want to give an accurate answer, we are just speculating.

Could we reach in a decade from now to 6 figures, what do you think ?

Regarding the 21M cap, I've two question

1. Can this cap be altered in any means ?
2. I know we are talking here about scarcity, but remember that the future is for micropayments along with Internet of Things and as you know, bitcoin is much divisble, so how will the scarcity help here when few satoshies for example could buy you something you need which costs few dollars for example

Yes I do think we could reach 6 figures within next decade.

1. Never. Ever. Ever
2. Scarcity is in reference to the 21M cap. The importance is that the value of everyone's holding will never be diluted like they are with fiat. It's not about the divisibility of a single Bitcoin. If each satoshis are worth too much for micro-transactions then we can adjust the system so that we can use sub-satoshis.

I think you have bolded the wrong question because my OCD is killing me Grin

1. Why do you think we may reach 6 figures in 10 years from now ? In other words, how do you see bitcoin from technological perspective in a decade from now ?
2. Could you please elaborate more on the bolded part of the above "2." part, as I still didn't get what you want to say.

Never ever was in reference to your question about altering the cap. This would corrupt the deflationary aspect of Bitcoin which is one of its main property.

6 figures is probable because existing financial system is headed for ruins and Bitcoin could eventually be the only safe refuge for wealth out of the reach of totalitarian governments.

Bitcoin itself won't be much different 10 years from now. Layers will be built on top of it and no one can pretend to have the imagination to suggest what use might come out of these. Think sidechains, payment channels (Lightning Network), IoT and machine to machine transactions, etc, etc.

Fakhoury

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1027

Permabull Bitcoin Investor

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 06:06:24 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:55:14 PM

I understand that you don't want to give an accurate answer, we are just speculating.

Could we reach in a decade from now to 6 figures, what do you think ?

Regarding the 21M cap, I've two question

1. Can this cap be altered in any means ?
2. I know we are talking here about scarcity, but remember that the future is for micropayments along with Internet of Things and as you know, bitcoin is much divisble, so how will the scarcity help here when few satoshies for example could buy you something you need which costs few dollars for example

Yes I do think we could reach 6 figures within next decade.

1. Never. Ever. Ever
2. Scarcity is in reference to the 21M cap. The importance is that the value of everyone's holding will never be diluted like they are with fiat. It's not about the divisibility of a single Bitcoin. If each satoshis are worth too much for micro-transactions then we can adjust the system so that we can use sub-satoshis.

I think you have bolded the wrong question because my OCD is killing me Grin

1. Why do you think we may reach 6 figures in 10 years from now ? In other words, how do you see bitcoin from technological perspective in a decade from now ?
2. Could you please elaborate more on the bolded part of the above "2." part, as I still didn't get what you want to say.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:55:14 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 05:48:05 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 05:26:58 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:12:01 PM

Thank you for watching the topic and keep on-track with me.

As you mentioned Gold and it's used as a store of wealth "agree with what you said about it", do you see Bitcoin as a store of wealth also ?

Can I say that investing in bitcoin's blockchain is investing in bitcoin but in "in-direct" way ? In other words, what benefits/harms bitcoin's blockchain also benefits/harms bitcoin itself ?

Bitcoin is a digital version and an improvement on gold on almost every aspects so yes Bitcoin is a store of wealth and arguably the best that's ever existed.

Investing in Bitcoin's blockchain is indeed an indirect investment in Bitcoin but also one that is a little more currency agnostic (it does not necessarily depends or is directly related to the success of Bitcoin).

I see you are confident about bitcoin and this makes me happy

In 5 years till a decade from now, where you see bitcoin in terms of technology and price ?

I cannot say for sure but just so as to entertain our little circlejerk let me suggest that 5 years from now ONE Bitcoin should be out of the reach of a good majority of people living on this planet.

Just remember there are only 21,000,000. Gotta catch em all Wink

I understand that you don't want to give an accurate answer, we are just speculating.

Could we reach in a decade from now to 6 figures, what do you think ?

Regarding the 21M cap, I've two question

1. Can this cap be altered in any means ?
2. I know we are talking here about scarcity, but remember that the future is for micropayments along with Internet of Things and as you know, bitcoin is much divisble, so how will the scarcity help here when few satoshies for example could buy you something you need which costs few dollars for example

Yes I do think we could reach 6 figures within next decade.

1. Never. Ever. Ever
2. Scarcity is in reference to the 21M cap. The importance is that the value of everyone's holding will never be diluted like they are with fiat. It's not about the divisibility of a single Bitcoin. If each satoshis are worth too much for micro-transactions then we can adjust the system so that we can use sub-satoshis.

Fakhoury

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1027

Permabull Bitcoin Investor

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 05:48:05 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 05:26:58 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:12:01 PM

Thank you for watching the topic and keep on-track with me.

As you mentioned Gold and it's used as a store of wealth "agree with what you said about it", do you see Bitcoin as a store of wealth also ?

Can I say that investing in bitcoin's blockchain is investing in bitcoin but in "in-direct" way ? In other words, what benefits/harms bitcoin's blockchain also benefits/harms bitcoin itself ?

Bitcoin is a digital version and an improvement on gold on almost every aspects so yes Bitcoin is a store of wealth and arguably the best that's ever existed.

Investing in Bitcoin's blockchain is indeed an indirect investment in Bitcoin but also one that is a little more currency agnostic (it does not necessarily depends or is directly related to the success of Bitcoin).

I see you are confident about bitcoin and this makes me happy

In 5 years till a decade from now, where you see bitcoin in terms of technology and price ?

I cannot say for sure but just so as to entertain our little circlejerk let me suggest that 5 years from now ONE Bitcoin should be out of the reach of a good majority of people living on this planet.

Just remember there are only 21,000,000. Gotta catch em all Wink

I understand that you don't want to give an accurate answer, we are just speculating.

Could we reach in a decade from now to 6 figures, what do you think ?

Regarding the 21M cap, I've two question

1. Can this cap be altered in any means ?
2. I know we are talking here about scarcity, but remember that the future is for micropayments along with Internet of Things and as you know, bitcoin is much divisble, so how will the scarcity help here when few satoshies for example could buy you something you need which costs few dollars for example

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 05:26:58 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:12:01 PM

Thank you for watching the topic and keep on-track with me.

As you mentioned Gold and it's used as a store of wealth "agree with what you said about it", do you see Bitcoin as a store of wealth also ?

Can I say that investing in bitcoin's blockchain is investing in bitcoin but in "in-direct" way ? In other words, what benefits/harms bitcoin's blockchain also benefits/harms bitcoin itself ?

Bitcoin is a digital version and an improvement on gold on almost every aspects so yes Bitcoin is a store of wealth and arguably the best that's ever existed.

Investing in Bitcoin's blockchain is indeed an indirect investment in Bitcoin but also one that is a little more currency agnostic (it does not necessarily depends or is directly related to the success of Bitcoin).

I see you are confident about bitcoin and this makes me happy

In 5 years till a decade from now, where you see bitcoin in terms of technology and price ?

I cannot say for sure but just so as to entertain our little circlejerk let me suggest that 5 years from now ONE Bitcoin should be out of the reach of a good majority of people living on this planet.

Just remember there are only 21,000,000. Gotta catch em all Wink

Fakhoury

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1027

Permabull Bitcoin Investor

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 05:26:58 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:12:01 PM

Thank you for watching the topic and keep on-track with me.

As you mentioned Gold and it's used as a store of wealth "agree with what you said about it", do you see Bitcoin as a store of wealth also ?

Can I say that investing in bitcoin's blockchain is investing in bitcoin but in "in-direct" way ? In other words, what benefits/harms bitcoin's blockchain also benefits/harms bitcoin itself ?

Bitcoin is a digital version and an improvement on gold on almost every aspects so yes Bitcoin is a store of wealth and arguably the best that's ever existed.

Investing in Bitcoin's blockchain is indeed an indirect investment in Bitcoin but also one that is a little more currency agnostic (it does not necessarily depends or is directly related to the success of Bitcoin).

I see you are confident about bitcoin and this makes me happy

In 5 years till a decade from now, where you see bitcoin in terms of technology and price ?

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 05:12:01 PM

Thank you for watching the topic and keep on-track with me.

As you mentioned Gold and it's used as a store of wealth "agree with what you said about it", do you see Bitcoin as a store of wealth also ?

Can I say that investing in bitcoin's blockchain is investing in bitcoin but in "in-direct" way ? In other words, what benefits/harms bitcoin's blockchain also benefits/harms bitcoin itself ?

Bitcoin is a digital version and an improvement on gold on almost every aspects so yes Bitcoin is a store of wealth and arguably the best that's ever existed.

Investing in Bitcoin's blockchain is indeed an indirect investment in Bitcoin but also one that is a little more currency agnostic (it does not necessarily depends or is directly related to the success of Bitcoin).

Fakhoury

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1027

Permabull Bitcoin Investor

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 04:54:29 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 04:45:30 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 04:40:20 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 04:24:42 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 04:00:45 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 11, 2015, 03:36:36 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 11, 2015, 03:03:27 PM

Quote from: MF Doom on September 11, 2015, 12:28:19 PM

Quote from: Fakhoury on September 10, 2015, 11:53:13 AM

Hello,

In the past few days, I've came across a lot of news about some financial companies and organizations investing in bitcoin's blockchain.

The question now is, how will this affect bitcoin, specially the price ?

On the other hand, if the investment is in another blockchain, would this still benefit bitcoin ?

Thank you.

in my opinion, its the "beginning of the end" for btc.

I mean lots of companies are saying specifically that they are interested in, or developing similar blockchain software, but NONE have any interest in btc itself.

I see a lot of people comparing btc to the early internet, well it may be like the early internet, but probably more like "netscape" or "alta-vista" if you remember those. Once powerful tools, now relics of the early internet.

This boils down to a common misconception of what Bitcoin's strength is: not the payment system

Bitcoin will be fine. It is digital gold, the scarcest & most secure crypto-commodity.

All these blockchain investements will create crypto-rails within the banking system that will allow for liquidity to more easily enter Bitcoin.

So yes, it does benefit Bitcoin.

How brg, I still can't get it, could you please break it down for me ?

How...?

The banking system will never adopt Bitcoin's low level protocol for their infrastructure for obvious engineering and strategical reasons. It isn't efficient, not very flexible, short on features and most importantly : not private.

It is entirely reasonable for them to find interest in and leverage the technology for their own use case. Their adoption of the blockchain technology will allow capital to flow around the system with much less friction.

This will essentially create accessible ramps for capital to flow into Bitcoin.

All what you said makes sense.

Why this will essentially create accessible ramps for capital to flow into Bitcoin ?

And another question please, your talking started about banks and bitcoin, why did you chose ? Why not mass adoption from the masses for example ?

You need to understand current context. If you wanna buy Bitcoin right now you need to fund an account at Coinbase or other exchanges using traditional financial ramps. These are slow, sometimes expensive and not practical: they create a lot of friction for someone who'd like to invest into Bitcoin. Especially when considering important amounts (millions, billions).

Let's fast forward to five years from now: banks start looking a lot more like software companies. Adoption of the blockchain has eliminated a considerable amount of bureaucracy and general unproductive processes.

Imagine that using this newly developed infrastructure you are able to convert your fiat to BTC straight from your bank account and even withdraw it to a personal wallet.

This is just an example and doesn't go into details of how this would work for institutional investors but surely you can understand that once all financial systems are supported by blockchains then it gets much easier to move capital around. This is one of the issue with Bitcoin right now: the lack of on-ramps.

That's why you see the Winklevoss creating an exchange and an ETF: because we need better ways integrate Bitcoin with the existing financial system so that value can easily move in and move out.

Perfect.

Now I have question popped in my mind, why would investors invest in bitcoin ? Doesn't investing in blockchain technology makes more sense ?

In another words, why would bitcoin gather investors attention ?

Bitcoin has a different value proposition. While its technology and the models of payment system it introduced are interesting, the way they are currently implemented in Bitcoin is primitive and very basic (in relation with most recent progress in this area). What Bitcoin excels at is being a sound form of money. Think of it as digital gold. Gold was never valued for its industrial use. It maintained value throughout history as a store of wealth used to hedge against devalued government currencies.

In the same way, Bitcoin, as it is, offers unparalleled protection of one's wealth.

If increasingly more people start trusting Bitcoin to secure their money then it makes sense to invest in it at this early stage in its history. Cases like Cyprus and Greece are early indicators that the system is starting to collapse and shows that in these scenarios your money stored in banks is not secured from the hands of the governments of the world who, make no mistake, will reach for anything they can grab to keep themselves afloat once they start sinking.

I do expect that a whole ecosystem will be built on top Bitcoin and compete with some banks blockchains but we are not there yet.