How is KYC enforced in Bitcoin ATMs worldwide?

malevolent

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Yes, that happens sometimes.

Quote from: stompix on April 30, 2020, 04:51:10 PM

What happened, again with the AML rules?

IIRC, in Germany their competitor did some lobbying & snitching causing German authorities to go after ATM operators who weren't adequately compliant. There was a thread about it somewhere but I can't find it now.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: malevolent on April 30, 2020, 04:35:18 PM

Quote from: stompix on February 20, 2020, 03:15:42 PM

~.

Today you could sell with close to 0% fee (in other markets, too) and it was the buying fees which got jacked. Rates change depending on which way the market is going because they're said to have some banking problems.

Looool..

You could actually sell at more than the exchange price...Bitfinex right now is as 6988.33 GBP

The RON pair seems to be still under the price by a hefty margin, 35k with 39k.

One more thing:

Quote

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren. Bis die Angelegenheit mit BaFin geklärt ist, sind unsere Dienste in Deutschland gesperrt. Unsere Geldautomaten und Wechselstuben in Deutschland sind derzeit geschlossen.

Quote

Dear Sirs and Madames. Until the matter is resolved with BaFin, our services in Germany are blocked. Our ATMs and exchange offices in Germany are currently closed.

What happened, again with the AML rules?

malevolent

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Quote from: stompix on February 20, 2020, 03:15:42 PM

It's the same in all places lately, I used a VPN (for some reason I can change to other currency on their website) and I got a 7.7% even in RON and GBP.
And in Poland, they advertise 6.5% right now, the reality is actually worse.

Today you could sell with close to 0% fee (in other markets, too) and it was the buying fees which got jacked. Rates change depending on which way the market is going because they're said to have some banking problems.

bcarts

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Used many machines across Europe and never had to KYC ? Not sure of the benefit of using a Bitcoin ATM if I have need to go through an identity verification process, for me at least.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: malevolent on February 20, 2020, 02:48:10 PM

For some reason their fees fluctuate all the time. Right now, here in Poland I'm also seeing the highest fees ever, almost 7.2% if I wanted to sell through them (by comparison with Flyingatom I'd pay a fee of 4%, still quite a lot but not as nasty).

It's the same in all places lately, I used a VPN (for some reason I can change to other currency on their website) and I got a 7.7% even in RON and GBP.
And in Poland, they advertise 6.5% right now, the reality is actually worse.

We had a discussion about them a few months ago and by that time I was only suspicious about their connections but still, the prices were great, but that's gone, the times when you could make a transaction with below 4% seem to be over. What's left is their no info needed and their enormous reserves in their machines, the one in Frankfurt has over 120k euros right now...

Probably it was just marketing to attract big players who care about the secrecy, with LB cash option gone, there is almost no option left for large amounts that involve close to zero risks.

malevolent

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Quote from: stompix on February 19, 2020, 11:59:58 AM

Yeah, shitcoins was great till they've fucked up the rates it's 6.5% on sell now and sometimes it goes well beyond that what they advertise.
Currently, if you do a simulation it's actually 7.3% on their website.

For some reason their fees fluctuate all the time. Right now, here in Poland I'm also seeing the highest fees ever, almost 7.2% if I wanted to sell through them (by comparison with Flyingatom I'd pay a fee of 4%, still quite a lot but not as nasty).

But if I wanted to buy through shitcoins, (right now) I'd only pay a fee of 0.77%. I noticed that shitcoins tends to have better rates when selling when the BTC price is falling, and better rates when buying when the price is increasing.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: malevolent on February 19, 2020, 11:29:04 AM

Quote from: countryfree on February 17, 2020, 07:17:24 AM

On bitcoin.de or Kraken, I've never paid a fee higher than .5%.
My Visa card used to have a €1,000 daily limit, but I asked my bank to raise it, and they did.

Am I used to good deals and service? I think not.

5 €250 withdrawals would mean a €87.5 fee. I say "OUCH". Please stop.

5% out of 1250 is 62.5.

You won't usually get below 2% with an ATM (or ~2-3%). But you lose privacy if you use banks, Visa, etc., so depending on the user's need a higher fee might not be that discouraging if it isn't too high.

.5% is 0.5% (US writing) whereas the only BTC ATM in working order which I've seen in my life had a 7% fee, that makes the fee 14 times more expensive.

stompix

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 09:36:00 AM

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country

Well, don't!
Apart from other aspects like fees or possible changes in KYC regulations that haven't been updated, you must also consider this
- ATM is out of order, ATM is out of cash
- the location of the ATM is closed for different reasons
- the ATM malfunctions and it's the only one by that company in that town so you won't be able to use the coupon some give to reclaim cash at other location
and many more.

Better use them when you don't really need the $ to have some time till you run out of funds, not to get stranded near a mall with 50cents in your pocket and more importantly, always have a back-up option.

Quote from: LeGaulois on January 21, 2020, 11:39:53 AM

You need to look for the BTC ATMs from shitcoins.club if you don't want to bother with KYC. Their machines have no verification.

Yeah, shitcoins was great till they've fucked up the rates it's 6.5% on sell now and sometimes it goes well beyond that what they advertise.
Currently, if you do a simulation it's actually 7.3% on their website.

malevolent

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Quote from: countryfree on February 17, 2020, 07:17:24 AM

On bitcoin.de or Kraken, I've never paid a fee higher than .5%.
My Visa card used to have a €1,000 daily limit, but I asked my bank to raise it, and they did.

Am I used to good deals and service? I think not.

5 €250 withdrawals would mean a €87.5 fee. I say "OUCH". Please stop.

5% out of 1250 is 62.5.

You won't usually get below 2% with an ATM (or ~2-3%). But you lose privacy if you use banks, Visa, etc., so depending on the user's need a higher fee might not be that discouraging if it isn't too high.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: 20kevin20 on February 14, 2020, 07:24:32 PM

Quote from: LeGaulois on February 12, 2020, 05:44:30 PM

@countryfree

Yeah, 7% it sucks for us, especially if we have a lot of other alternatives, but for those who don't, it doesn't and they're fine with it.
It's like the fees when purchasing with a bank card. Or when you want to sell using a decentralized exchange and the best offer you can get is 5% below the market :/ Otherwise you could use a P2P marketplace with an offer 15% below
If no choice...

The 250€ limit isn't really a problem, to compare, our bank cards have a weekly and monthly limit but we never complain

Quote from: malevolent on February 11, 2020, 08:01:53 PM

...but that depends on the country ...

Doedn't it depend on the ATM network? (the machines provider)

I've used decentralized exchanges before and you can get offers at 5% under the market because you're willing to instantly trade funds. You can place an offer yourself at spot price or above the market, so you become the one having 5% overall profit.

But what if 5 customers successively go and withdraw ~250 EUR from an ATM in a matter of minutes? Why would the ATM not just stop after the first 2-3 customers and ask for identification? AFAIK, most ATMs have this "if we consider a transaction to be suspicious, we reserve the right to request documents for identity verification" rule you agree to once you start using it.

On bitcoin.de or Kraken, I've never paid a fee higher than .5%.
My Visa card used to have a €1,000 daily limit, but I asked my bank to raise it, and they did.

Am I used to good deals and service? I think not.

5 €250 withdrawals would mean a €87.5 fee. I say "OUCH". Please stop.

20kevin20

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Quote from: LeGaulois on February 12, 2020, 05:44:30 PM

@countryfree

Yeah, 7% it sucks for us, especially if we have a lot of other alternatives, but for those who don't, it doesn't and they're fine with it.
It's like the fees when purchasing with a bank card. Or when you want to sell using a decentralized exchange and the best offer you can get is 5% below the market :/ Otherwise you could use a P2P marketplace with an offer 15% below
If no choice...

The 250€ limit isn't really a problem, to compare, our bank cards have a weekly and monthly limit but we never complain

Quote from: malevolent on February 11, 2020, 08:01:53 PM

...but that depends on the country ...

Doedn't it depend on the ATM network? (the machines provider)

I've used decentralized exchanges before and you can get offers at 5% under the market because you're willing to instantly trade funds. You can place an offer yourself at spot price or above the market, so you become the one having 5% overall profit.

But what if 5 customers successively go and withdraw ~250 EUR from an ATM in a matter of minutes? Why would the ATM not just stop after the first 2-3 customers and ask for identification? AFAIK, most ATMs have this "if we consider a transaction to be suspicious, we reserve the right to request documents for identity verification" rule you agree to once you start using it.

I just cannot feel safe knowing I'm transferring my fiat or BTC to someone else and my money may be stuck in their accounts until I provide identity proof..

malevolent

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Quote from: LeGaulois on February 12, 2020, 05:44:30 PM

Doedn't it depend on the ATM network? (the machines provider)

That usually depends on local regulations and their enforcement. At worst if they're hazy then different operators might have different perceptions of risk. Where I am it's still at ~15k EUR (EU limit for cash transactions without KYC where a company/sole trader is at least one of the parties of the transaction), but if AMLD 5-6 get adopted here that might end and KYC-less limits will see significant decreases.

LeGaulois

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Top Crypto Casino

@countryfree

Yeah, 7% it sucks for us, especially if we have a lot of other alternatives, but for those who don't, it doesn't and they're fine with it.
It's like the fees when purchasing with a bank card. Or when you want to sell using a decentralized exchange and the best offer you can get is 5% below the market :/ Otherwise you could use a P2P marketplace with an offer 15% below
If no choice...

The 250€ limit isn't really a problem, to compare, our bank cards have a weekly and monthly limit but we never complain

Quote from: malevolent on February 11, 2020, 08:01:53 PM

...but that depends on the country ...

Doedn't it depend on the ATM network? (the machines provider)

malevolent

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Quote from: countryfree on February 10, 2020, 08:37:14 PM

There's no need for KYC on ATMs because they're just terrible!

Terribly expensive, last one I saw had a 7% fee, and terribly limited, max amount was I believe €250.

It's best to avoid them.

Not all of them are as expensive and as restrictive, I once found one that had negative fees when selling (~1%), although that didn't last long. Many have higher limits, but that depends on the country and probably won't last forever.

imstillthebest

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what ? that sucks . i thought btc atm or simply atm's are on the go ? i mean you just need to insert the card and get cash but im aware that atm's now have cctv's and with that , your face were still captured if you dont wear mask , glasses , etc to cover up your face . or maybe that only depend on the atm and the country . the best thing you can do is to do kyc if you really badly need to use that atm or make an advance research before you travel and if what atm's youl come across ,

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

There's no need for KYC on ATMs because they're just terrible!

Terribly expensive, last one I saw had a 7% fee, and terribly limited, max amount was I believe €250.

It's best to avoid them.

Theb

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I think the OP doesn't have any problems with KYC itself but the hindrance it will cause him just to liquidate his Bitcoin when he will be traveling to other European countries. I'm assuming OP will be touring to other countries that's why he sees KYC as a problem and I agree with him, even if their Bitcoin service has a fast way to verify their KYC I don't think it will be fast enough for any traveler who wants some cash right away. So @OP I think the best alternative for you is to have a Bitcoin Visa Debit card where you have the ability to use you Bitcoin as good as cash, from what I know these debit cards as long as their Visa is accepted in a lot of countries since they consider it as a regular bank issued debit card.

fortunecrypto

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 09:36:00 AM

How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

That's quite surprising we do have a Bitcoin ATM here but we don't need a KYC just to make a withdrawal you need to do a research if the country that you will travel have an ATM and they implemented a procedures that you have I think other country do not give such procedures but better do a research first.

malevolent

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on January 30, 2020, 05:11:51 AM

As in the case of Philippines, there are currently only two (2) bitcoin ATMs available and I heard that the system seems to be buggy with errors. Most of the time, it is unavailable and out of service but if you stumble across one, I would suggest to avoid it. The rates and fees are too high in order to withdraw some of your funds. If you are really desperate, I would suggest to check first your local bitcoin exchange platform and see their available services for withdrawing.

I just checked on coinatmradar, there actually are only two Bitcoin ATMs in the Philippines. Are there any specific regulations which make running such as business next to impossible? In a country of >100M there must be demand for more of such ATMs. And one of the two seems to require a bank account...

qwertyup23

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Quote from: BlondBlock on January 22, 2020, 07:31:24 PM

Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 09:36:00 AM

How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

USA here and it depends on the company setting the standards for their machines. Some require KYC to buy small amounts of BTC while others are less demanding. Similar for getting cash they are not all the same.

As in the case of Philippines, there are currently only two (2) bitcoin ATMs available and I heard that the system seems to be buggy with errors. Most of the time, it is unavailable and out of service but if you stumble across one, I would suggest to avoid it. The rates and fees are too high in order to withdraw some of your funds. If you are really desperate, I would suggest to check first your local bitcoin exchange platform and see their available services for withdrawing.

Like what most people have mentioned, travelling abroad and supplying your details with their KYC requirement may be a bad idea that may put yourself at risk. Anything that is related to your information can be used against you especially that these ATMs are not regulated by the government.

Topic: How is KYC enforced in Bitcoin ATMs worldwide? (Read 421 times)