How is KYC enforced in Bitcoin ATMs worldwide? - page 2.

BlondBlock

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 08:36:00 AM

How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

USA here and it depends on the company setting the standards for their machines. Some require KYC to buy small amounts of BTC while others are less demanding. Similar for getting cash they are not all the same.

cryptoperkele

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Quote from: Lucius on January 20, 2020, 09:10:09 AM

There are several types of verifications when it comes to crypto ATMs, and again they depend on the individual country and its legislation. What you describe is withdrawing money into your bank account, but most crypto ATMs are only one-way devices, which means you can only buy crypto with cash.

As a side note: i am not describing withdrawing money to my bank account, i am talking about withdrawing cash from btc atm. That takes kyc in here now.

Quote from: jseverson on January 20, 2020, 11:14:53 PM

Is KYC itself your problem, or the fact that some ATMs require specific third-party accounts and/or online banking codes? If it's the latter, ATMs like that are highly unusual; they only really require some personal details, and I've never heard of any prior to your case requiring much else. Have you taken a look at other Bitcoin ATMs in your area? I suspect that the one you interacted with is an exception rather than the rule.

My problem was that i am not sure if i am able to withdraw money if i have just a passport with me. If i need a preconfigurated account with kyc, it can take time at the road to make one and get it approved.

Quote from: jseverson on January 20, 2020, 11:14:53 PM

If this isn't some weird 5AMLD compliance (and it would be big news if it is because it essentially kills off Bitcoin ATMs in the EU), I don't think you will encounter any problems while traveling.

I guess it's big news then. More info about this in here : https://twitter.com/Coinmotion/status/1215563632253247489

LeGaulois

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You need to look for the BTC ATMs from shitcoins.club if you don't want to bother with KYC. Their machines have no verification.

Once I found a machine in my country by visiting coinatmradar website and I've been traveling for ~4 hours to go there. Once I found the place, a kebab lol, I realized that to sell bitcoins I had to take a selfie with my ID card. I didn't know Bitcoin ATMs were asking for our ID, I also didn't notice it was specified on coinatmradar. Cheesy

I was so pissed off that I went back home without even visiting the city, and no bitcoins sold...

buwaytress

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Actually, I'd like to know too. I'm assuming it's going to be the same KYC method if it's the same manufacturer, so you might want to see the manufacturer of the BATMs you're going to be using.

jackg is right: there's no KYC for BATMs in the ones I've seen for Europe up until a DAILY limit of either 5k EUR or 10k EUR. Which I highly doubt you'll ever be needing. But as others say, AMLD5 comes into force this month so that should change.

You'll have your passport with you, that would be more than enough. But I would rather go Localbitcoins and cash up a day before I need it.

jseverson

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 08:36:00 AM

How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

Is KYC itself your problem, or the fact that some ATMs require specific third-party accounts and/or online banking codes? If it's the latter, ATMs like that are highly unusual; they only really require some personal details, and I've never heard of any prior to your case requiring much else. Have you taken a look at other Bitcoin ATMs in your area? I suspect that the one you interacted with is an exception rather than the rule.

If this isn't some weird 5AMLD compliance (and it would be big news if it is because it essentially kills off Bitcoin ATMs in the EU), I don't think you will encounter any problems while traveling.

CryptoBry

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Quote from: Lucius on January 20, 2020, 09:10:09 AM

There are several types of verifications when it comes to crypto ATMs, and again they depend on the individual country and its legislation. What you describe is withdrawing money into your bank account, but most crypto ATMs are only one-way devices, which means you can only buy crypto with cash.

Some of them will only ask you your mobile phone number on which you will get confirmation code, others will ask you to show your ID on the ATM camera, or to show your face in front of the camera. Some ATM are using special software (check https://shuftipro.com/).

I think the USA has fairly strict laws in this regard (FinCEN) which requires that all clients in such transactions are identified, all of course for the purpose of preventing money laundering and terrorist financing.

Maybe Finland is one of the first EU countries that is starting to implement new EU directives (AMLD 5) which came into force on January 10 this year.

KYC is as diverse as the many countries where there are Bitcoin ATMs. This means that for now there is no universally accepted KYC procedures and this all add more inconvenience and confusion to Bitcoin holders, putting more reason why up to now Bitcoin has not yet achieved the massive use it should be enjoying. Here in my country, I think we only have two or three existing ATM terminals where one can be able to transact Bitcoin but KYC is not yet that very strict but we know that soon this can be changing. Let's hope that there can be a common procedures for this one so that Bitcoin users will not be left on the cold as far as ATM is concerned.

magneto

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 08:36:00 AM

How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

I suggest that you don't rely on them at all.

From what I've heard from most countries, it seems like that almost all of them have some sort of KYC restriction placed on users and that is unavoidable given the fact that bitcoin ATMs are a subject of regulation in the majority of countries.

You should just look on Localbitcoins for cash deposits trades, I find that is the best possible way to get a decent rate while not worrying to have to travel far for a Bitcoin ATM that may not even be available without KYC.

gentlemand

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Quote from: TimeTeller on January 20, 2020, 06:38:25 PM

Or one more thing, send it to a remittance center like WU, in my area, you can send bitcoin to WU and you can get your fiat based on the exchange rate.

That could wind up being VERY expensive.

Since OP is in the EU they should have banking that's modern, unlike America. A lot of places will have debit cards that offer foreign exchange rates at market rates with no fees. If you did multiple transactions through ATMs and WU you'll likely eat up the cost of a few decent meals just in conversion.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 20, 2020, 06:24:06 PM

If I were going abroad and were planning to rely on ATMs I wouldn't do it without identifying the places I was going and asking the ATM operators what was required in terms of KYC. If you're foreign you may not have what they're asking for. They'll all have contact details.

But you will also be subject to wildly varying exchange rates, fees and limits. It's also possible that the places listing them will be badly out of date so there may not even be one there any more.

I'd be looking at other options like a crypto debit card or just a rapid exchange linked to my bank account.

If you are traveling, make sure to research the area what are the available options for you on encashing your bitcoin.
So you will not be surprised when you arrived and you will end up having trouble on where to get your money for your expenses.
And yes, one way is to send it to your bank account and then withdraw it via your regular bank atm.
Or one more thing, send it to a remittance center like WU, in my area, you can send bitcoin to WU and you can get your fiat based on the exchange rate.

gentlemand

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If I were going abroad and were planning to rely on ATMs I wouldn't do it without identifying the places I was going and asking the ATM operators what was required in terms of KYC. If you're foreign you may not have what they're asking for. They'll all have contact details.

But you will also be subject to wildly varying exchange rates, fees and limits. It's also possible that the places listing them will be badly out of date so there may not even be one there any more.

I'd be looking at other options like a crypto debit card or just a rapid exchange linked to my bank account.

lukew

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Quote from: audaciousbeing on January 20, 2020, 09:24:28 AM

When it comes to KYCs, one thing I am certain of is that there is always a way for the ATMs to synchronize with each other across the world. Just like we have Visa and MasterCard that made you use your ATM cards across the world and they can synchronize, btc would not be exempted. Instead of being caught in the web of regulations, the suggestion is to either convert whatever fiat you will be using in your travels right before you leave or you just register on peer to peer sites that goes across borders and when you land, you can convert to either cash or bank transfer for your use.

Bitcoin ATM's are completely different to Visa/Mastercard networks. EMV cards don't "synchronize", but rather use a semi-central network to direct requests to the organization that issued the card. Amex is different as they are the processor, network and end provider.

Bitcoin ATM's are often standalone machines only connected to the Bitcoin network. Some are part of a "network" of machines with an operator that shares the fees with whoever "hosts" the ATM. My (year or 2 from being available) machines are a hybrid with more features than anything currently available.

malevolent

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On coinatmradar it often says whether a specific Bitcoin ATM asks for KYC. In some countries it's mandatory, in other it isn't, and in some no one knows so it's up to the operator. I wouldn't be surprised if there was mandatory KYC in all Bitcoin ATMs in the EU by next year's end, I'm not sure there's any other way with AMLD 5, countries will have to comply or face sanctions.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on January 20, 2020, 08:36:00 AM

How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

When it comes to KYCs, one thing I am certain of is that there is always a way for the ATMs to synchronize with each other across the world. Just like we have Visa and MasterCard that made you use your ATM cards across the world and they can synchronize, btc would not be exempted. Instead of being caught in the web of regulations, the suggestion is to either convert whatever fiat you will be using in your travels right before you leave or you just register on peer to peer sites that goes across borders and when you land, you can convert to either cash or bank transfer for your use.

Lucius

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There are several types of verifications when it comes to crypto ATMs, and again they depend on the individual country and its legislation. What you describe is withdrawing money into your bank account, but most crypto ATMs are only one-way devices, which means you can only buy crypto with cash.

Some of them will only ask you your mobile phone number on which you will get confirmation code, others will ask you to show your ID on the ATM camera, or to show your face in front of the camera. Some ATM are using special software (check https://shuftipro.com/).

I think the USA has fairly strict laws in this regard (FinCEN) which requires that all clients in such transactions are identified, all of course for the purpose of preventing money laundering and terrorist financing.

Maybe Finland is one of the first EU countries that is starting to implement new EU directives (AMLD 5) which came into force on January 10 this year.

cryptoperkele

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Quote from: jackg on January 20, 2020, 08:38:55 AM

It's going to be different wherever you go and specifics willl be hard to find, are you just travelling inside the EU? Or are you going further. If you're going further there may be issues, most of Europe don't have kyc on cash trades, Finland is probanly an exceptoln.

Mainly in Europe, but are you sure that other countries don't have it? Because we didn't have this either in the past, this just came in action in Finland this year because of some new eu aml regulations if i recall correctly.

jackg

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It's going to be different wherever you go and specifics willl be hard to find, are you just travelling inside the EU? Or are you going further. If you're going further there may be issues, most of Europe don't have kyc on cash trades, Finland is probanly an exceptoln.

cryptoperkele

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How should i prepare on this while travelling? They just placed KYC in Btc ATMs here in Finland, and i either need to have a previously registered Coinmotion account with kyc, or have online banking codes to withdraw any money.

So i am interested in how much i can rely on Btc ATMs with travelling on some other country and can i rely my Finnish online bank codes working as kyc or do i need to prepare somehow?

Topic: How is KYC enforced in Bitcoin ATMs worldwide? - page 2. (Read 432 times)