How long can BTC-E Stay in Business as a black market company? - page 2.

ondratra

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Activity: 350

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Bulgaria is under "friendly wings" of Russia Cheesy

lol this sounds very funny. But what i mean - US don't have influence on this country as it has on EU, etc. This region is more Russia domain where it comes to superstate territories.

Anyway there wasn't even described reasons for freezing Mt.Gox accounts? Or have I missed explaining of that?

lazydna

full member

Activity: 126

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on May 29, 2013, 05:16:35 AM

Quote from: lazydna on May 29, 2013, 05:12:56 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on May 29, 2013, 04:54:11 AM

Now that Liberty Reserve is going to be prosecuted I think the OP question is now more relevant then ever.

Users who think that just because the company isn't in the United States doesn't mean the United States can't get you. They can, and they will. They got these guys and none of them were in the US, nor was the company in the US. If BTC-E is indeed operating without any licenses or outside of any regulations (they could be above board, but who knows) Users of BTC-E are being silly if they think that they are safe from the US government.

The lesson should be that they can get you anywhere. And they will.

Even if btce gets shut down, the most that will happen is an inconvenience, the money will be returned to account holders because nobody will be able to prove they came from an illegitimate source. Another exchange will take its place.

You're assuming quite a lot in that one. The 'inconvenience' could last years as a trial dragged through the legal system. Liquidators might return only USD selling off any coins at any rate without consideration.

You're also assuming BTC-E keeps meticulous records. If they don't- your money might looks like anyone else's and the burden of proof could be on the user to prove a) where the funds came from b)their identities. Look at Bitcoinica, Bitfloor, the old tradehill, Intersango, those funds are stuck indefinitely. With Bitcoinica Mt.Gox actually still has all the money, but the refuse to release it. What are you going to? Wait years for a resolution or until you forgot you ever owned it in the first place.

Not to mention, users could be targeted themselves.

I can tell u have a hate on for these type of services but your are most certainly fear mongering now.
No users, unless specifically targeted for illegal activities would be prosecuted and I'm sure a vast majority of people using btce are legitimate small time traders and miners. With cryptos the block chain would store all address of funds sent to btce so this could easily be used to return cryptos to there senders. The fiat cash would be a little more tricky but it would be up to the authorities to prove u committed a crime before seizure. Freezing btce funds is just that, frozen, not expropriated.

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: lazydna on May 29, 2013, 05:12:56 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on May 29, 2013, 04:54:11 AM

Now that Liberty Reserve is going to be prosecuted I think the OP question is now more relevant then ever.

Users who think that just because the company isn't in the United States doesn't mean the United States can't get you. They can, and they will. They got these guys and none of them were in the US, nor was the company in the US. If BTC-E is indeed operating without any licenses or outside of any regulations (they could be above board, but who knows) Users of BTC-E are being silly if they think that they are safe from the US government.

The lesson should be that they can get you anywhere. And they will.

Even if btce gets shut down, the most that will happen is an inconvenience, the money will be returned to account holders because nobody will be able to prove they came from an illegitimate source. Another exchange will take its place.

You're assuming quite a lot in that one. The 'inconvenience' could last years as a trial dragged through the legal system. Liquidators might return only USD selling off any coins at any rate without consideration.

You're also assuming BTC-E keeps meticulous records. If they don't- your money might looks like anyone else's and the burden of proof could be on the user to prove a) where the funds came from b)their identities. Look at Bitcoinica, Bitfloor, the old tradehill, Intersango, those funds are stuck indefinitely. With Bitcoinica Mt.Gox actually still has all the money, but the refuse to release it. What are you going to? Wait years for a resolution or until you forgot you ever owned it in the first place.

Not to mention, users could be targeted themselves.

lazydna

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on May 29, 2013, 04:54:11 AM

Now that Liberty Reserve is going to be prosecuted I think the OP question is now more relevant then ever.

Users who think that just because the company isn't in the United States doesn't mean the United States can't get you. They can, and they will. They got these guys and none of them were in the US, nor was the company in the US. If BTC-E is indeed operating without any licenses or outside of any regulations (they could be above board, but who knows) Users of BTC-E are being silly if they think that they are safe from the US government.

The lesson should be that they can get you anywhere. And they will.

Even if btce gets shut down, the most that will happen is an inconvenience, the money will be returned to account holders because nobody will be able to prove they came from an illegitimate source. Another exchange will take its place.

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1001

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Now that Liberty Reserve is going to be prosecuted I think the OP question is now more relevant then ever.

Users who think that just because the company isn't in the United States doesn't mean the United States can't get you. They can, and they will. They got these guys and none of them were in the US, nor was the company in the US. If BTC-E is indeed operating without any licenses or outside of any regulations (they could be above board, but who knows) Users of BTC-E are being silly if they think that they are safe from the US government.

The lesson should be that they can get you anywhere. And they will.

Twerka

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: vane91 on May 18, 2013, 04:55:53 AM

Quote from: Twerka on May 16, 2013, 10:07:47 AM

Please, do not ask for that stupid G00gle auth, you have to log in on google to login on other site. Google wants to got you under its eye 24hs.

BTC-e is secure, he sends you a confirmation email if you want to withdraw; and email account can't be changed with a confirmation either.

You are wrong, google authenticator is a OTP (2FA) app that you install on your phone, 99% of the people trust it for their gmail account, but you can add aditional websites, google don't even know what websites you put on in. it's safe as long as you got no malware on your phone, if it was unsecure it will be a huge backlash for google. Notice how even btc-e advised that you use gmail with OTP... that's google authenticator, it's different than linking your account in some webpage to the google login.

You install the app in your phone, it links with your g00gle account. I'm not saying it's "insecure" I'm simply saying that you are linking your phone, and your google account to any website each time you want to log in. The key generated is pinged by the website to get the key to enter.
Why do I must have a g00gle account anyway? Check "Cryptonit": without g00gle auth, (and without you giving information to google), you can't withdraw your coins.

Let them control your life, luckily I read the "terms of service".

zerodrama

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: matauc12 on May 16, 2013, 09:37:14 AM

You imply gox was not compliant to regulations. But it Likely was compliant. So the issue is unknown at this time so hard to extrapolate.

MtGox said they didn't do money services.
They do money services.
Oops.

True___Blue

sr. member

Activity: 354

Merit: 250

Quote from: Stevenrm87 on May 18, 2013, 05:11:40 AM

Bitinstant to mtgox , mtgox to btc-e? Well that's how I did it

Are you talking about fiat or BTC? If there is a way to transfer fiat from gox to BTC-e I would love to know about it. (I am still a relative noob at all this)

User_513

member

Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on May 16, 2013, 09:08:49 AM

I won't trade on a regulated exchange.

All the tools necessary to operate outside of any government's reach are already out there.

This is why crypto's are the future.

mercSuey

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: CoinHoarder on May 18, 2013, 06:56:07 AM

Ps: I first expressed these concerns about a month ago even before Mt Gox got served.

I received several Paypal payments from BTCe and it was obvious they were breaking in the law at the time. Not only did the PayPal payments come from random individuals and shell companies, but they also ask for no over indintification of your identity.

They are blatantly FINcen non compliant.

Don't worry. Your precious investment in Avalon asics will be okay. BTC will probably be over 300 next year or so. You don't have to be so threatened by Worldcoin or whatever other altcoin. You and Crazy_rabbit are so agonized by these altcoin releases that it's laughable. There's no need to hype the gox FUD into btc-e. NOTHING is a surprise or new...not even the Dwolla/gox news. Fincen has been a debate for quite sometime. And may I just add Bter.com is proving itself to be very reputable, so I am sure it will step up and handle the void left by btc-e's exit, if it happens. Not to mention the handful of American exchange start-ups to go live this summer, offering margin accounts and shorting capabilities. And more importantly, as stated in Fincen's reports, virtual currencies are still being defined and classified properly. And this has much more to do with online gambling being legalized in the States than anything else--not btc-e being a black market or whatever.

cryptoanarchist

legendary

Activity: 1120

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I'm wondering why there aren't MORE unregulated exchanges.

Maybe there already is, but there needs to be some open source code out there for building an exchange site - where you can just add your own CSS and its ready to go. Then open about 20 bank accounts or more under various IDs and legal fictions and rotate them for various customers. If a 100 people did that the governments of the world would have no chance.

human

full member

Activity: 197

Merit: 100

Quote from: exahash on May 16, 2013, 11:13:44 AM

What's wrong with Bulgaria? They've been advertising in Businessweek for a while now... 10% flat tax, very business friendly, sounds like a good place for a BTC exchange.

Interesting news! I just wonder now why everybody assumed that btc-e was Russian. By the way, bitcoin7 was Bulgarian too.

Taxidermista

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Twerka on May 16, 2013, 10:07:47 AM

Please, do not ask for that stupid G00gle auth, you have to log in on google to login on other site. Google wants to got you under its eye 24hs.

Google Authenticator has nothing to do with any Google account and Google knows nothing about the OTPs generated to access your protected accounts. You better learn how the Android app works.

CoinHoarder

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Activity: 1484

Merit: 1026

In Cryptocoins I Trust

Ps: I first expressed these concerns about a month ago even before Mt Gox got served.

I received several Paypal payments from BTCe and it was obvious they were breaking in the law at the time. Not only did the PayPal payments come from random individuals and shell companies, but they also ask for no over indintification of your identity.

They are blatantly FINcen non compliant.

CoinHoarder

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Activity: 1484

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: durnkenWiz on May 18, 2013, 04:20:27 AM

Just checked the withdraw options and it seems paypal's there, skrill also. Did anyone use those, do they actually work? If they do, very nice, gg btc-e Cool

You are correct. I don't care what country they are based in, if they offer their services to US customers in the form of X crypto currency to FIAT and FIAT to x crypto currency, then they will get shut down if they are not FINcen compliant.

Its not a matter of if, but its a matter of when. Anyone that leaves any FIAT or crypto on btc-e is gambling. The Us government WILL, not IF, shut them down. Sorry if you have a lot of money on there when that happens. The domain will get seized and any FIAT bank accounts will be frozen.

Again, it is no t a matter of if, but when it will happen.

Stevenrm87

sr. member

Activity: 403

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Bitinstant to mtgox , mtgox to btc-e? Well that's how I did it

mmitech

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things you own end up owning you

Quote from: durnkenWiz on May 18, 2013, 04:20:27 AM

Just checked the withdraw options and it seems paypal's there, skrill also. Did anyone use those, do they actually work? If they do, very nice, gg btc-e Cool

I wouldn't consider using Paypal at all , I tried it once and lost allot of money, they charge you 0.2 fee for your trade than 6 % to withdraw, than Paypal charge you again with even bigger fee for receiving the money, and than if you want to convert from USD to your local currency (Euro in my case) you will lose another X% of the conversion because of the low rate that Paypal offers. Just keep away from Paypal really.

OP, I think that LTC is undervalued because of BTC-e, a real investor wont go there at all , because it is so hard to get your FIAT into there, so only miners are speculating and buying and selling from each other. this is why LTC is undervalued, when it will hit Mt.gox we will see the real value of it .

we need BTC-e until Mt.gox add LTC than BTC-e will die any ways , only the ALT junk coins will be traded there.

vane91

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Quote from: Twerka on May 16, 2013, 10:07:47 AM

Please, do not ask for that stupid G00gle auth, you have to log in on google to login on other site. Google wants to got you under its eye 24hs.

BTC-e is secure, he sends you a confirmation email if you want to withdraw; and email account can't be changed with a confirmation either.

You are wrong, google authenticator is a OTP (2FA) app that you install on your phone, 99% of the people trust it for their gmail account, but you can add aditional websites, google don't even know what websites you put on in. it's safe as long as you got no malware on your phone, if it was unsecure it will be a huge backlash for google. Notice how even btc-e advised that you use gmail with OTP... that's google authenticator, it's different than linking your account in some webpage to the google login.

durnkenWiz

sr. member

Activity: 331

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Just checked the withdraw options and it seems paypal's there, skrill also. Did anyone use those, do they actually work? If they do, very nice, gg btc-e Cool

crazy_rabbit

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: seleme on May 16, 2013, 10:12:17 AM

Where did you get it is from Bulgaria?

I don't think so, they use loads of Russian payment deposit options including Russian banks etc and none of Bulgarian..

Read their website. "For all legal purposes, these Terms of Use shall be governed by the laws applicable in the Republic of Bulgaria." Terms page.

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