How long Putin can continue this nonsense war?!

BADecker

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Quote from: amishmanish on June 13, 2022, 11:38:57 AM

Puton seek to correct his mistake by double negation. He knows he is wrong and his actions have led to great destruction to ukraine and workd, and now by associating his ukraine invasion as a step for liberating donbas region. He intends to prove his actions right.. He will continue his war until someone stops him or he get his mental peace, that his war was pious war of liberation

Putin knows he is right. Part of his rightness comes from the fact that he filed based on Article 51 in the UN Charter... before he did any of the invasion. Can anyone find where the UN Security Counsel formally admonished Putin and/or Russia for this action? If not, Putin is acting legally. And when you add that to the reasons why he did it, you will see he is acting rightly in it.

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amishmanish

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Puton seek to correct his mistake by double negation. He knows he is wrong and his actions have led to great destruction to ukraine and workd, and now by associating his ukraine invasion as a step for liberating donbas region. He intends to prove his actions right.. He will continue his war until someone stops him or he get his mental peace, that his war was pious war of liberation

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Stand with Ukraine

Quote from: yazher on June 08, 2022, 07:57:43 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on June 08, 2022, 04:30:34 AM

The world is trying to stop the bloody unjustified war started by Putin in Ukraine. Putin needs this war to prevent the overthrowing of his corrupted government. And you shouldn't be Albert Einstein to know that your approval rating will rise during the war.

I hope it's stopped now because even though we were miles and miles away from ground zero, we are still suffering and feeling the effect of the current war on our economy and the essential needs prices are rising because of the current oil price hike. This is not for the sake of Ukrainian anymore but also for the other country that was already suffering and with this war going on, they even suffer more right now because the economy is failing and it is hard to get up when things like this continue to happen in the future.

Stopping the Russian aggression was never for the sake of Ukraine only. Putin, this unethical moron, thinks he is like Peter the Great(he really said that in a recent interview, crazy, huh?). Now he basically admits that this war is about expansion. Do you think he would stop after invading Ukraine? Hardly.

It's in the interests of the whole civilized world to stop this crazy builder of the new Russian empire as soon as possible.

BADecker

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Quote from: be.open on June 10, 2022, 11:18:19 AM

Quote from: johhnyUA on June 10, 2022, 11:07:13 AM

Quote from: ariinv on April 02, 2022, 05:25:05 PM

I believe in less than three months Putin's kingdom is over , what do you think?

False. Russia will hit until it will be able to do so. For russia (not only for Ukraine, yep) this was is existential. If it will fail - for russia this will means an and and country (as we know it) will collapse.

That rare case when I agree with you. Russia does not have much choice to continue or end, there is too much at stake.

The Ukraine is so fragmented with little, local political groups, and even groups claiming they are the real Ukraine, that it is amazing that her soldiers are as strong as they are. All they keep saying over to themselves is, this is for Ukraine. They don't really even know what that means, since so many of them have Russian friends and relatives.

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be.open

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Quote from: johhnyUA on June 10, 2022, 11:07:13 AM

Quote from: ariinv on April 02, 2022, 05:25:05 PM

I believe in less than three months Putin's kingdom is over , what do you think?

False. Russia will hit until it will be able to do so. For russia (not only for Ukraine, yep) this was is existential. If it will fail - for russia this will means an and and country (as we know it) will collapse.

That rare case when I agree with you. Russia does not have much choice to continue or end, there is too much at stake.

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Quote from: ariinv on April 02, 2022, 05:25:05 PM

I believe in less than three months Putin's kingdom is over , what do you think?

False. Russia will hit until it will be able to do so. For russia (not only for Ukraine, yep) this was is existential. If it will fail - for russia this will means an and and country (as we know it) will collapse.

So, taking into account this information you could try to calculate the and of the war by yourself )

If you want to know more, you can read this guy - https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204

Quote from: SSIstheway on June 09, 2022, 05:52:14 PM

Really depends on what Putin is able to sell as a win domestically. There's a lot of Russian losses, sure, but Ukranians are hurting too, and Putin's territorial gains in the East are non-trivial. If the Donbas is secured + a land corridor to Crimea, and he can get some kind of negotiated promise of Ukranian neutrality re: joining NATO, then that might be enough to sell domestically as a win.

This is bad point

Quote from: SSIstheway on June 09, 2022, 05:52:14 PM

Remember, Russians have historically tolerated leaders that have racked up high domestic body counts, but have been less tolerant of leaders perceived as weak. Hence, Putin's survival lies in being able to spin a tale of victory.

And this is very good point! From your second point it's obvious that first point is wrong: russian wants full victory, means "to occupy all Ukraine", not just few middle cities on the south and east.

For example, russian neo-nazi writer, bulba de thones has the same vibes:
"PФ xoчeт выйти из вoйны пocлe эпичнoй битвы зa Дoнбacc, кoтopaя пoдмeнилa coбoй пoлный пepeфopмaт тeppитopий Укpaины. Bы жe в нaчaлe CBO тoжe мeчтaли o взятыx c бoями 3,5 cёлax?"

He is complaining that initially russian goal - to occupy all Ukraine and to kill or rusificate all ukrainians is not achievable. Overwhelming majority of russians think in the same way.

So gnomes can't just stop the war without major negative consequences for themselves.

Here, even local kremlin puppets confirm this take:

Quote from: be.open on June 10, 2022, 11:18:19 AM

Russia does not have much choice to continue or end, there is too much at stake.

And this is no joke or smth like that. This is the main vibe of russian society.

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Quote from: af_newbie on June 09, 2022, 10:14:03 PM

Quote from: SSIstheway on June 09, 2022, 05:52:14 PM

Really depends on what Putin is able to sell as a win domestically. There's a lot of Russian losses, sure, but Ukranians are hurting too, and Putin's territorial gains in the East are non-trivial. If the Donbas is secured + a land corridor to Crimea, and he can get some kind of negotiated promise of Ukranian neutrality re: joining NATO, then that might be enough to sell domestically as a win.

Remember, Russians have historically tolerated leaders that have racked up high domestic body counts, but have been less tolerant of leaders perceived as weak. Hence, Putin's survival lies in being able to spin a tale of victory.

That would work with the French or Germans, but it will never work with Ukrainians.

Even if he would manage to control these territories today, Russians will be dying for the foreseeable future, until Ukraine gets its territories back. No matter if it takes 2, 5, 10, or 40 years. Russians will be defeated in those territories. Too many atrocities were committed by the Russian soldiers in Ukraine. There will be no going back to pre-2022 relations with Russia.

People who think some sort of territorial succession can be achieved, do not understand Ukrainians, their nationalism, and what exactly happened in Ukraine.

Just the same, the nationalism of Ukrainians is very well understood, which is why this operation of demilitarization and denazification is being carried out. In the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, the queue is a month ahead for obtaining Russian citizenship. In September, children in the liberated territories will go to school and follow the Russian curriculum, including the Russian anthem and the hoisting of the Russian flag every morning. I think after 20 years of continuous efforts, only vague memories will remain of Ukrainian nationalism.

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Quote from: SSIstheway on June 09, 2022, 05:52:14 PM

Really depends on what Putin is able to sell as a win domestically. There's a lot of Russian losses, sure, but Ukranians are hurting too, and Putin's territorial gains in the East are non-trivial. If the Donbas is secured + a land corridor to Crimea, and he can get some kind of negotiated promise of Ukranian neutrality re: joining NATO, then that might be enough to sell domestically as a win.

Remember, Russians have historically tolerated leaders that have racked up high domestic body counts, but have been less tolerant of leaders perceived as weak. Hence, Putin's survival lies in being able to spin a tale of victory.

That would work with the French or Germans, but it will never work with Ukrainians.

Even if he would manage to control these territories today, Russians will be dying for the foreseeable future, until Ukraine gets its territories back. No matter if it takes 2, 5, 10, or 40 years. Russians will be defeated in those territories. Too many atrocities were committed by the Russian soldiers in Ukraine. There will be no going back to pre-2022 relations with Russia.

People who think some sort of territorial succession can be achieved, do not understand Ukrainians, their nationalism, and what exactly happened in Ukraine.

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Quote from: SSIstheway on June 09, 2022, 05:52:14 PM

Really depends on what Putin is able to sell as a win domestically. There's a lot of Russian losses, sure, but Ukranians are hurting too, and Putin's territorial gains in the East are non-trivial. If the Donbas is secured + a land corridor to Crimea, and he can get some kind of negotiated promise of Ukranian neutrality re: joining NATO, then that might be enough to sell domestically as a win.

Remember, Russians have historically tolerated leaders that have racked up high domestic body counts, but have been less tolerant of leaders perceived as weak. Hence, Putin's survival lies in being able to spin a tale of victory.

Stalin essentially destroyed the Soviet Union by doing just that. The leaders after Stalin couldn't stop the fall of the U.S.S.R.

In the new Russia, Putin and those before him don't/didn't operate like that. They recognize the Stalin failure, and are doing things differently... because they don't want national failure to happen again.

Putin is having success because he is doing it based (more or less) on free trade... or was until the sanctions. His reactions to the sanctions are showing us that his free trade is stronger than US/Europe sanctions.

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Really depends on what Putin is able to sell as a win domestically. There's a lot of Russian losses, sure, but Ukranians are hurting too, and Putin's territorial gains in the East are non-trivial. If the Donbas is secured + a land corridor to Crimea, and he can get some kind of negotiated promise of Ukranian neutrality re: joining NATO, then that might be enough to sell domestically as a win.

Remember, Russians have historically tolerated leaders that have racked up high domestic body counts, but have been less tolerant of leaders perceived as weak. Hence, Putin's survival lies in being able to spin a tale of victory.

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Quote from: Betwrong on June 08, 2022, 04:30:34 AM

The world is trying to stop the bloody unjustified war started by Putin in Ukraine. Putin needs this war to prevent the overthrowing of his corrupted government. And you shouldn't be Albert Einstein to know that your approval rating will rise during the war.

I hope it's stopped now because even though we were miles and miles away from ground zero, we are still suffering and feeling the effect of the current war on our economy and the essential needs prices are rising because of the current oil price hike. This is not for the sake of Ukrainian anymore but also for the other country that was already suffering and with this war going on, they even suffer more right now because the economy is failing and it is hard to get up when things like this continue to happen in the future.

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Stand with Ukraine

Quote from: BADecker on June 02, 2022, 11:16:08 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on June 02, 2022, 04:11:20 AM

~
I agree with you. Using nukes may very well turn the remaining few allies of Russia against it. Nobody wants nukes used in any war on earth. That's why we have the Nuclear Weapon Ban Treaty. Violate the Treaty and you'll see armies from all over the world on your land sooner than you think.

Imagine that you are walking down the sidewalk, a peaceful, nice day, you are even whistling, the sun is shining, life is good.

Then 20 big, mean bullies pop up out of nowhere and are out to kill you... I mean, really kill you dead, and you know it. Like Russia, you are not ready for it.

But what will you do? If you have a couple of grenades, won't you toss them into the group, even though it kills you along with most of the bullies?
~

No! I wouldn't do that! Would you? Really? To sacrifice your life to ... what exactly? What if your "knowledge" is wrong? What if the "bullies" were actually helping you all the time through history? What if they want to help now too, and you what, blow yourself up along with them?

Quote from: BADecker on June 02, 2022, 11:16:08 AM

The world is trying to take Russia out with their sanctions. And they seem willing to do it even though it is destroying their own economies and killing their own people.
~

The world is trying to stop the bloody unjustified war started by Putin in Ukraine. Putin needs this war to prevent the overthrowing of his corrupted government. And you shouldn't be Albert Einstein to know that your approval rating will rise during the war.

BADecker

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on June 03, 2022, 05:33:52 AM

Quote from: BADecker on May 28, 2022, 06:12:01 PM

How long Putin can continue this nonsense war?!

Long enough to bankrupt the US and Western Europe.

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Putin is not losing this war but winning then why he will stop it before he fully compels US and Europe to accept his conditions to end this war . In the beginning it looked like as he won't be able to sustain his economy due to harsh sanctions imposed on Russia but he survived and now value of Ruble is even stronger than before war broke out. On the other hand US and its allies are feeling the adverse outcome of this war on their economies.

Exactly!

Russia is a big enough country, especially if you include Siberia, that they don't need the rest of the world. Sanctions aren't hurting Russia. They are cutting the rest of the world off from gaining any more of Russia's wealth. People need to wake up to this simple fact.

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Quote from: BADecker on May 28, 2022, 06:12:01 PM

How long Putin can continue this nonsense war?!

Long enough to bankrupt the US and Western Europe.

Cool

Putin is not losing this war but winning then why he will stop it before he fully compels US and Europe to accept his conditions to end this war . In the beginning it looked like as he won't be able to sustain his economy due to harsh sanctions imposed on Russia but he survived and now value of Ruble is even stronger than before war broke out. On the other hand US and its allies are feeling the adverse outcome of this war on their economies.

BADecker

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Quote from: Gyfts on June 02, 2022, 12:16:43 PM

Putin allegedly treated for cancer in April: https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-putin-treated-cancer-april-us-intelligence-report-says-1710357

The clear and obvious mental decline and oddities associated with Putin's physical behavior gave everyone the indication that his health wasn't in a great place. His time is limited and the only question remains is who will take his place, and whether that person will continue war efforts. How long do you all think Putin has until his own officials throw him over or he dies of cancer?

However Russia is run, essentially there is a group of people, many former KGB just like Putin, who decide on a regular basis if Putin should remain in power, or if one of the others should replace him. So far they are voting for Putin.

Even if a few of them don't like a few of the things that Putin is doing, or even if the bunch of them don't like some of it, they haven't found anybody who could do it better. If Putin dies of cancer, they will want someone in power who will do it like Putin is doing it. The next guy will be another Putin... for at least a little while.

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Gyfts

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Putin allegedly treated for cancer in April: https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-putin-treated-cancer-april-us-intelligence-report-says-1710357

The clear and obvious mental decline and oddities associated with Putin's physical behavior gave everyone the indication that his health wasn't in a great place. His time is limited and the only question remains is who will take his place, and whether that person will continue war efforts. How long do you all think Putin has until his own officials throw him over or he dies of cancer?

BADecker

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Quote from: Betwrong on June 02, 2022, 04:11:20 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on June 02, 2022, 02:02:22 AM

Quote from: BADecker on June 01, 2022, 08:53:50 PM

~

If he drops a nuke, I think it will be the 'all gloves off' type of a fight. I don't think he will go there. Russia is not ready for it.
~

I agree with you. Using nukes may very well turn the remaining few allies of Russia against it. Nobody wants nukes used in any war on earth. That's why we have the Nuclear Weapon Ban Treaty. Violate the Treaty and you'll see armies from all over the world on your land sooner than you think.

Imagine that you are walking down the sidewalk, a peaceful, nice day, you are even whistling, the sun is shining, life is good.

Then 20 big, mean bullies pop up out of nowhere and are out to kill you... I mean, really kill you dead, and you know it. Like Russia, you are not ready for it.

But what will you do? If you have a couple of grenades, won't you toss them into the group, even though it kills you along with most of the bullies?

The world is trying to take Russia out with their sanctions. And they seem willing to do it even though it is destroying their own economies and killing their own people.

I don't like the idea of war any more than anyone else. But if anyone thinks that Russia is just going to roll over and let themselves be destroyed without a fight, they're crazy. And since Russia has the idea of controlling the world anyway... the possibility of them using nukes that take the whole world back to the dark ages is something they just might do.

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Stand with Ukraine

Quote from: af_newbie on June 02, 2022, 02:02:22 AM

Quote from: BADecker on June 01, 2022, 08:53:50 PM

~

If he drops a nuke, I think it will be the 'all gloves off' type of a fight. I don't think he will go there. Russia is not ready for it.
~

I agree with you. Using nukes may very well turn the remaining few allies of Russia against it. Nobody wants nukes used in any war on earth. That's why we have the Nuclear Weapon Ban Treaty. Violate the Treaty and you'll see armies from all over the world on your land sooner than you think.

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Quote from: BADecker on June 01, 2022, 08:53:50 PM

Looks like Putin is preparing to make this war shorter than we would have expected. But the way he is doing it should make us all take a look at our options.

Russia Holds Nuclear Forces Drill As Biden Unveils $700M More In Arms For Ukraine

Quote from: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-holds-nuclear-forces-drill-biden-unveils-700m-more-arms-ukraine

Russia's nuclear forces have launched fresh drills northeast of Moscow, in the Ivanovo province, according to new Russian defense ministry statements Wednesday.

Reuters cited Interfax news agency to report that "Some 1,000 servicemen are exercising in intense maneuvers using over 100 vehicles including Yars intercontinental ballistic missile launchers," based on the Russian MoD statement.

Some Western media reports are seeing the drill as a response and warning to Washington over the White House approving yet more military aid and weapons to Ukraine, particularly longer range rockets.

...

If he drops a nuke, I think it will be the 'all gloves off' type of a fight. I don't think he will go there. Russia is not ready for it.

He will continue his war of attrition, and reach the border of Donbas, losing 100K+ soldiers while doing it. Declare a victory and withdraw from
Ukraine as he will not want to spend his own money to hold it and rebuild all the leveled cities, towns, and infrastructure.

It is a clusterfuck for Russia and he needs to get out of it. Somehow.

Dropping a nuke will complicate things exponentially.

BADecker

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Looks like Putin is preparing to make this war shorter than we would have expected. But the way he is doing it should make us all take a look at our options.

Russia Holds Nuclear Forces Drill As Biden Unveils $700M More In Arms For Ukraine

Quote from: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-holds-nuclear-forces-drill-biden-unveils-700m-more-arms-ukraine

Russia's nuclear forces have launched fresh drills northeast of Moscow, in the Ivanovo province, according to new Russian defense ministry statements Wednesday.

Reuters cited Interfax news agency to report that "Some 1,000 servicemen are exercising in intense maneuvers using over 100 vehicles including Yars intercontinental ballistic missile launchers," based on the Russian MoD statement.

Some Western media reports are seeing the drill as a response and warning to Washington over the White House approving yet more military aid and weapons to Ukraine, particularly longer range rockets.

...

On the other hand, Alex Jones analyzes what this really means... Russian nukes which don't have any value beyond Russian talk... or do they? Watch the videos.

Globalist Proxy War Goes Hot as Russian TV Propaganda Threatens to Nuke US

Quote from: https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-threatens-to-annihilate-u-s-with-4-satan-ii-missiles-over-ukraine-proxy-war/

Russian state media threatened that President Vladimir Putin could “destroy the entire east coast of the U.S.” with just two Sarmat “Satan II” nuclear missiles if the West continues to escalate war in Ukraine.

The chilling warning was made Tuesday on Russia’s media program Rossiya 1 by Russian member of Parliament Alexei Zhuravlev, who explained that Russia could launch only four Sarmat missiles to completely destroy the US east and west coasts.

“I will tell you absolutely competently that to destroy the entire the East Coast of the United States, two Sarmat missiles are needed,” Zhuravlev said. “And the same goes for the West Coast. Four missiles, and there will be nothing left.”

“They think the mushroom cloud will be taller than a high rise. That mushroom cloud will be visible from Mexico,” he added.

Russian state media issued a similarly bizarre threat earlier this month, warning that it could launch an underwater 100-megaton nuclear strike on the UK it claimed would produce a massive radioactive tsunami.

These disturbing remarks by Russian media come just a day after Russia test-fired its anti-ship hypersonic Zircon missile, which can travel up to nine times the speed of sound at a range of 620 miles.

...

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