Topic: How many Alts do you expect to survive long term? - page 3. (Read 3883 times)
It all goes down to how the community fully support the coin and how dedicated the development team and of course uniqueness plays a major roles if Crypto currency become the norm in the internet payment I see at least 30 to 50 coins surviving.
I expect many. Hundreds, thousands. Maybe none of those that exist today. Maybe not even bitcoin. In the same way that Roman money doesn't exist today, but that there are hundreds of fiat currencies.
Hello,
this is probably going to be another controversial topic, but I think, I'd start it for the heck of it. You can all scream at each other about how wrong the other person is, but please refrain from excessive verbal abuse.
To preface this, I'd define "survive" as being at least a few years old, holding steady or rising in value and having no indication of imminent end of the project/blockchain.
Anyway, I was just asking myself this:
At the moment, there are hundreds of Altcoins out there. Let's assume, that in ten to twenty years, blockchain is a word everybody knows like everybody knows the word internet.
How many altcoins/blockchain project/whatever you wanna call it, apart from Bitcoin will be out there? I'm not asking for specific names, I'm asking for an estimation.
I think you can roughly group all altcoin projects into two camps: the "pure" currencies, that are basically value transfer systems and the "blockchain as a service" groups. In both camps, there is a lot of redundancy, so that just a few will survive. I think it is going to be more than just bitcoin, though. BTC and ETH are a realistic scenario, although I's say it would be more like 3-5 value transfer coins plus two BaaS projects, who may have a bunch of different tokens associated with them.
Thoughts?
this is probably going to be another controversial topic, but I think, I'd start it for the heck of it. You can all scream at each other about how wrong the other person is, but please refrain from excessive verbal abuse.
To preface this, I'd define "survive" as being at least a few years old, holding steady or rising in value and having no indication of imminent end of the project/blockchain.
Anyway, I was just asking myself this:
At the moment, there are hundreds of Altcoins out there. Let's assume, that in ten to twenty years, blockchain is a word everybody knows like everybody knows the word internet.
How many altcoins/blockchain project/whatever you wanna call it, apart from Bitcoin will be out there? I'm not asking for specific names, I'm asking for an estimation.
I think you can roughly group all altcoin projects into two camps: the "pure" currencies, that are basically value transfer systems and the "blockchain as a service" groups. In both camps, there is a lot of redundancy, so that just a few will survive. I think it is going to be more than just bitcoin, though. BTC and ETH are a realistic scenario, although I's say it would be more like 3-5 value transfer coins plus two BaaS projects, who may have a bunch of different tokens associated with them.
Thoughts?
i say 5 coins tops are going to survive in long term and at least 3 of these coins are the old coins that we already know like Litecoin and Monero. but many other newer coins no matter how big and full of sound they are, will be dead before the year ends.
firstly if you read i said POS stupid enough to use block rather then %, one person eventually owns the market, i assume zeitcoin is % (not that i'd even bother researching what scamcoin number 3562920 is)?
% ones well the rich get richer and to 51% requires less the 51% of the coins, ie build up weight overtime to attack the network which has been done and tested.
also i'm no fan of bitcoin or pow (in bitcoins form) and yes it is completely flawed and can be 51% which i'd argued long before pools did such a thing and was often shot down in flames for even suggesting such.
and theres an easy solution to all of the above; simply stop having people mining (to gain free coins well using electricity but i used the term free here on purpose for a different reason which pertains to the solution) as your mechanism for moving blocks (which again people have shot me down in flames for even suggesting but tis easy enough and is currently being experimented with).
% ones well the rich get richer and to 51% requires less the 51% of the coins, ie build up weight overtime to attack the network which has been done and tested.
also i'm no fan of bitcoin or pow (in bitcoins form) and yes it is completely flawed and can be 51% which i'd argued long before pools did such a thing and was often shot down in flames for even suggesting such.
and theres an easy solution to all of the above; simply stop having people mining (to gain free coins well using electricity but i used the term free here on purpose for a different reason which pertains to the solution) as your mechanism for moving blocks (which again people have shot me down in flames for even suggesting but tis easy enough and is currently being experimented with).
Yep, ZEIT is % based, 5% next year.
Highest combined wallet is only 5.47 % of the Total Amount (Most likely an old exchange that died),
way less than the hash rate controlled by the largest PoW miner like Antpool with 17.3% .
I have seen the attacks, you mentioned carried out on weak PoS coins , like APEX, which only had less than 6 stakers at the time of the attack and difficulty # was tiny , and they had an unlimited coin age, combined those issues made the attack possible.
We have Billions of coins staking , with limited coinage, so even if you could buy 51%, its coinage would not be high enough to dominate the network like the ASICS can dominate a PoW coin.
After 3 years our highest combined wallet is less than 6%, so our specs seem to be handling your concerns quite well.
The easy solution, stop having people mining, while technically solving the issue , provides zero incentive to waste personal resources to keep a network running.
The only way this can be done is to completely Centralize a Coin , where no one else can mine it , and someone pays you for the privilege of using said network.
Because at the end of the day , financial incentive has to come from somewhere if you want it to continue being supported.
chinese pools are just that pools which people located all over the world mine from.
and POS you just control the coin by having more coins, and you can 51% having just a small % of totally coins. and those who hold the most earn the most so over time increase their % v the rest, and if you go those coins stupid enough to be mining blocks rather then % the math will show you over time that the outcome IS always one person owning the network.
and POS you just control the coin by having more coins, and you can 51% having just a small % of totally coins. and those who hold the most earn the most so over time increase their % v the rest, and if you go those coins stupid enough to be mining blocks rather then % the math will show you over time that the outcome IS always one person owning the network.
Really ,
Ok use your math to show me the one person that owns the entire ZEITcoin Proof of Stake network, because you seem full of it.
Here is the block explorer dazzles us with your math skillz.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/zeit/
(It is a ~3 year old coin , so by your Logic 1 person should own all of it by now.)
(You Wrong , but it should be fun to see your math.)
But the fact you also ignore the 51% PoW coin issue shows your logic skillz are flawed.
FYI:
You might want to read up on 51% attack , back when the BTC community was being honest.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miners-ditch-ghash-io-pool-51-attack/
Chinese mining Pools combined total ~70%. They control it , and the PoW users pretend blindness to that fact is childlike.
firstly if you read i said POS stupid enough to use block rather then %, one person eventually owns the market, i assume zeitcoin is % (not that i'd even bother researching what shitcoin number 3562920 is)?
% ones well the rich get richer and to 51% requires less the 51% of the coins, ie build up weight overtime to attack the network which has been done and tested.
also i'm no fan of bitcoin or pow (in bitcoins form) and yes it is completely flawed and can be 51% which i'd argued long before pools did such a thing and was often shot down in flames for even suggesting such.
and theres an easy solution to all of the above; simply stop having people mining (to gain free coins well using electricity but i used the term free here on purpose for a different reason which pertains to the solution) as your mechanism for moving blocks (which again people have shot me down in flames for even suggesting but tis easy enough and is currently being experimented with).
I would add that no one really know the numbers of ALTS that will survive that long because a lot of factors will be responsible for any one to make it that far even as at now a lot of alts that came out with a lot of hype have fizzle out some are still coming and others will continue to come.
One factor that I know wil affect the long term availabilty of any ALT will be support in addition to crowdsale in the establishment of such.
One factor that I know wil affect the long term availabilty of any ALT will be support in addition to crowdsale in the establishment of such.
Honestly you can not predict if how many altcoin will live or survive in the future. for me i just relaying in coin market cap. 500k volume above those are altcoin that can survive for a long term but for newly release altcoin i do not know if they will stay long since i tried to invest and trade for those altcoin and never made any profit..
ltc, doge, eth, and maybe 5-10 others will survive
chinese pools are just that pools which people located all over the world mine from.
and POS you just control the coin by having more coins, and you can 51% having just a small % of totally coins. and those who hold the most earn the most so over time increase their % v the rest, and if you go those coins stupid enough to be mining blocks rather then % the math will show you over time that the outcome IS always one person owning the network.
and POS you just control the coin by having more coins, and you can 51% having just a small % of totally coins. and those who hold the most earn the most so over time increase their % v the rest, and if you go those coins stupid enough to be mining blocks rather then % the math will show you over time that the outcome IS always one person owning the network.
Really ,
Ok use your math to show me the one person that owns the entire ZEITcoin Proof of Stake network, because you seem full of it.
Here is the block explorer dazzles us with your math skillz.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/zeit/
(It is a ~3 year old coin , so by your Logic 1 person should own all of it by now.)
(You Wrong , but it should be fun to see your math.)
But the fact you also ignore the 51% PoW coin issue shows your logic skillz are flawed.
FYI:
You might want to read up on 51% attack , back when the BTC community was being honest.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miners-ditch-ghash-io-pool-51-attack/
Chinese mining Pools combined once total ~70% a few months ago. They control it , and the PoW users pretend blindness to that fact is childlike.
Why a lot of people is feeling doubt for the lite coin, but in my knowledge the age of lite coin is more long comparing with the another like xmr and eth but correct me if i'm wrong, but many coin is listed in the polo i sure if that is will be a long term coin... but i really loved with eth in this time .
I would say:
ETH, LSK, NXT and STRAT.
NXT will be ARDOR in a couple of days and as always, adoption is the key.
Same with STRAT (www.stratisplatform.com), they have a very interesting road map, IF they can work it out and attract clients, they will be a big player in the upcoming years.
With the whole Brexit materializing in a couple of years we might see an interesting position for them in the financial/economics market.
ETH, LSK, NXT and STRAT.
NXT will be ARDOR in a couple of days and as always, adoption is the key.
Same with STRAT (www.stratisplatform.com), they have a very interesting road map, IF they can work it out and attract clients, they will be a big player in the upcoming years.
With the whole Brexit materializing in a couple of years we might see an interesting position for them in the financial/economics market.
crytpos are borderless, china doesn't control litecoin mining or trading. for example i trade almost totally on chinese exchanges yet i'm aussie, just traders worldwide follow the liquidity.
anyone who backs POS as a longterm solution doesn't understand basic math. pos can be dominated same as pow yet has bonus flaws to boot (anyways theres many other threads about the pos/pow debate).
anyone who backs POS as a longterm solution doesn't understand basic math. pos can be dominated same as pow yet has bonus flaws to boot (anyways theres many other threads about the pos/pow debate).
And you missed the point entirely, the Mining pools are usually centralized in China and they usually control more that 51% of the mining capacity,
which means they can do a bunch of nasty little things to it.
https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
PoS requires to buy the coin and to profit you have to sell the coin,
PoW you sell the coin make a profit but it does not decrease your ability to make more since the value is in the ASIC and not the coin itself.
It is funny how all of the PoW miners ignore the fact China's Pools have over 51% for more than a year now.
Also electricity rates are being raised on Miners as they drive up the price of electricity.
Proof of Stake does not create an ASICS arms race , and will not require massive changes to the electrical grid.
It will be proven the winner, just a matter of time.
FYI:
Things someone with 51% of the network hashrate could do.
They could prevent transactions of their choosing from gaining any confirmations, thus making them invalid, potentially preventing people from sending Bitcoins between addresses.
They could also reverse transactions they send during the time they are in control (allowing double spend transactions), and they could potentially prevent other miners from finding any blocks.
chinese pools are just that pools which people located all over the world mine from.
and POS you just control the coin by having more coins, and you can 51% having just a small % of totally coins. and those who hold the most earn the most so over time increase their % v the rest, and if you go those coins stupid enough to be mining blocks rather then % the math will show you over time that the outcome IS always one person owning the network.
to answer this question you should look at the history of altcoins and how many have been created over the years and how many of them are still alive today.
i don't know if there is some place that is keeping the history of altcoins but you can check the altcoin announcement board (there is 215 pages right now) and go to the older pages like this (the oldes page i could find was 2014!) and see how many of those are alive this day and what is their prices.
this is why i believe only a handful of coins will survive for long term.
i don't know if there is some place that is keeping the history of altcoins but you can check the altcoin announcement board (there is 215 pages right now) and go to the older pages like this (the oldes page i could find was 2014!) and see how many of those are alive this day and what is their prices.
this is why i believe only a handful of coins will survive for long term.
crytpos are borderless, china doesn't control litecoin mining or trading. for example i trade almost totally on chinese exchanges yet i'm aussie, just traders worldwide follow the liquidity.
anyone who backs POS as a longterm solution doesn't understand basic math. pos can be dominated same as pow yet has bonus flaws to boot (anyways theres many other threads about the pos/pow debate).
anyone who backs POS as a longterm solution doesn't understand basic math. pos can be dominated same as pow yet has bonus flaws to boot (anyways theres many other threads about the pos/pow debate).
And you missed the point entirely, the Mining pools are usually centralized in China and they usually control more that 51% of the mining capacity,
which means they can do a bunch of nasty little things to it.
https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
PoS requires to buy the coin and to profit you have to sell the coin,
PoW you sell the coin make a profit but it does not decrease your ability to make more since the value is in the ASIC and not the coin itself.
It is funny how all of the PoW miners ignore the fact China's Pools have over 51% for more than a year now.
Also electricity rates are being raised on Miners as they drive up the price of electricity.
Proof of Stake does not create an ASICS arms race , and will not require massive changes to the electrical grid.
It will be proven the winner, just a matter of time.
FYI:
Things someone with 51% of the network hashrate could do.
They could prevent transactions of their choosing from gaining any confirmations, thus making them invalid, potentially preventing people from sending Bitcoins between addresses.
They could also reverse transactions they send during the time they are in control (allowing double spend transactions), and they could potentially prevent other miners from finding any blocks.
Hopefully none with the possible exception of Litecoin as it is the only true alt.
There is no need for any more altcoins.
There is no need for any more altcoins.
Except for the fact it is PoW which means China controls it , just like BTC.
Proof of Stake will succeed all PoW coins in Time,
Litecoins and the others will have to switch or die when it is no longer practical or profitable to mine.
crytpos are borderless, china doesn't control litecoin mining or trading. for example i trade almost totally on chinese exchanges yet i'm aussie, just traders worldwide follow the liquidity.
anyone who backs POS as a longterm solution doesn't understand basic math. pos can be dominated same as pow yet has bonus flaws to boot (anyways theres many other threads about the pos/pow debate).
Hopefully none with the possible exception of Litecoin as it is the only true alt.
There is no need for any more altcoins.
There is no need for any more altcoins.
Except for the fact it is PoW which means China controls it , just like BTC.
Proof of Stake will succeed all PoW coins in Time,
Litecoins and the others will have to switch or die when it is no longer practical or profitable to mine.
depends what you mean by survive and long term.
i think a ton of alts could tick along for many years without any real meaningful currency use.
longterm (ie 10years plus) as a genuine usable currency i think very few if any. litecoin being the best bet (if it doesn't go down the innovation to sell snake oil path which is currently hinted at).
i think a ton of alts could tick along for many years without any real meaningful currency use.
longterm (ie 10years plus) as a genuine usable currency i think very few if any. litecoin being the best bet (if it doesn't go down the innovation to sell snake oil path which is currently hinted at).
My favorite is still Primecoin but there may be other better coins.
Among the altcoins I believe that litecoin has proven itself as a long term cryptocoin. Despite all the hate and FUD it has recieved, it still continues trucking on proving the doubters wrong. Some scrypt based coins are even merge mining with it because its hashing power still remains the strongest second to bitcoin after all these years. Now with the recent upgrades their development team are working on, it is alive as ever.
Doge, ETH, Monero will survive long term, regarding Litecoin - hard to predict. Most probably from all altcoins will survive 5 - 6, not more, because all altcoin market is not so large, like Bitcoin market. 
for litecoin, i think the price will be increase for next month or soo and for now, i think litecoin would stick on the range 0.0062-0.0063 then i hope the price will increase into 0.0089 like before. the other altcoin is like doge, monero, dash, ethereum, ethereum classic, nxt, i think will be survive for long term.
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