How much block size we need to replace visa transactions? - page 2.

chek2fire

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Quote from: Peter R on January 17, 2016, 09:57:58 PM

check2fire:

According to this chart, a block size between 500 MB and 1 GB would be sufficient to achieve 2000 transactions per second (which was only Visa's average throughput several years ago now). We would have hit this point in the year 2032 following BIP101's trajectory and assuming a high rate of adoption.

can ever happen to have a system with so much high block size. What node will handle this and who will run that nodes? We will talk about 10-20-30 nodes or 100 and no more.

franky1

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Quote from: chek2fire on January 17, 2016, 09:38:49 PM

and what will happen in the next years? Every time we need a block size increase we have to go to the same hard fork drama or to have another ragequit Hearn story?

well hopefully not,.. if developers are brave enough to do this

then we will not have to rely on dev's making a new update each time.. as we can manually do things ourselves (decentralized style)

Peter R

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check2fire:

According to this chart, a block size between 500 MB and 1 GB would be sufficient to achieve 2000 transactions per second (which was only Visa's average throughput several years ago now). We would have hit this point in the year 2032 following BIP101's trajectory and assuming a high rate of adoption.

HostFat

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I support freedom of choice

There are many type of tx and situations that can be solved with other tech as the incoming Open Transactions and Lightening Network.

But still users will need to be always able to freely choose if making the tx on-chain or off-chain.

They will probably choose to use off-chain solutions because they will be faster (costing less "time", few seconds instead of 10 minutes) but not cheaper (trying avoiding virtual forced higher costs)

And then, blocks will be naturally smaller. (without using tricks/force)

chek2fire

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Quote from: nonbody on January 17, 2016, 09:30:42 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 17, 2016, 09:11:34 PM

Quote from: chek2fire on January 17, 2016, 08:55:31 PM

My question is simple. How much block size we need to have transactions like visa or like paypal etc or to compare with all of them together? Is this real that we need to have a block size above 1gb only to have the visa transactions?
Is ever this possible to happen? And how many forks we need to have to get to this block size?
I think the fork system to correct the block size problem for transactions is in the wrong way. We all know that bitcoin was not creating to replace every day payment and we cant to do this unless we drop it decentralized system. Only with a big central database bitcoin can handle so many every day transactions.

visa worldwide is not one system.. they have separate databases and networks per country.
for instance worldwide figures calculated and lumped together to get 2000 a second..
but if you cut it down into things like visa europe.. who do 570tx a second,

bitcoin could handle 7tx/s at 1mb blocks..if each tx was lean, but the reality is more like 3tx/s at the moment at 1mb blocks, so to compare bitcoin to visa europe would be about a 180mb block.

but dont worry bitcoin is not going to be world dominating solo currency. there will be free choice. bitcoin can happily work along side other payment methods. so dont expect bitcoin to bloat up to 180mb blocks overnight

Bitcoin's ongoing tx per second hasn't reached to that level. We don't need that size yet. What we need to do is to increase it to 2MB, then 3MB if needed to contain current tx volume.

and what will happen in the next years? Every time we need a block size increase we have to go to the same hard fork drama or to have another ragequit Hearn story?

elite3000

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Yes, it is a real problem because I don't know how the size of transactions are determined, if they are deterministic.

And you can use several combinations of inputs and outputs, will be hard to know what quantity of inputs/outputs would be better for such transaction, if you want to do all the transactions using the least block size possible

nonbody

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2local[IEO] - https://2local.io/

Quote from: franky1 on January 17, 2016, 09:11:34 PM

Quote from: chek2fire on January 17, 2016, 08:55:31 PM

My question is simple. How much block size we need to have transactions like visa or like paypal etc or to compare with all of them together? Is this real that we need to have a block size above 1gb only to have the visa transactions?
Is ever this possible to happen? And how many forks we need to have to get to this block size?
I think the fork system to correct the block size problem for transactions is in the wrong way. We all know that bitcoin was not creating to replace every day payment and we cant to do this unless we drop it decentralized system. Only with a big central database bitcoin can handle so many every day transactions.

visa worldwide is not one system.. they have separate databases and networks per country.
for instance worldwide figures calculated and lumped together to get 2000 a second..
but if you cut it down into things like visa europe.. who do 570tx a second,

bitcoin could handle 7tx/s at 1mb blocks..if each tx was lean, but the reality is more like 3tx/s at the moment at 1mb blocks, so to compare bitcoin to visa europe would be about a 180mb block.

but dont worry bitcoin is not going to be world dominating solo currency. there will be free choice. bitcoin can happily work along side other payment methods. so dont expect bitcoin to bloat up to 180mb blocks overnight

Bitcoin's ongoing tx per second hasn't reached to that level. We don't need that size yet. What we need to do is to increase it to 2MB, then 3MB if needed to contain current tx volume.

franky1

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Quote from: chek2fire on January 17, 2016, 08:55:31 PM

My question is simple. How much block size we need to have transactions like visa or like paypal etc or to compare with all of them together? Is this real that we need to have a block size above 1gb only to have the visa transactions?
Is ever this possible to happen? And how many forks we need to have to get to this block size?
I think the fork system to correct the block size problem for transactions is in the wrong way. We all know that bitcoin was not creating to replace every day payment and we cant to do this unless we drop it decentralized system. Only with a big central database bitcoin can handle so many every day transactions.

visa worldwide is not one system.. they have separate databases and networks per country.
for instance worldwide figures calculated and lumped together to get 2000 a second..
but if you cut it down into things like visa europe.. who do 570tx a second,

bitcoin could handle 7tx/s at 1mb blocks..if each tx was lean, but the reality is more like 3tx/s at the moment at 1mb blocks, so to compare bitcoin to visa europe would be about a 180mb block.

but dont worry bitcoin is not going to be world dominating solo currency. there will be free choice. bitcoin can happily work along side other payment methods. so dont expect bitcoin to bloat up to 180mb blocks overnight

keepdoing

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Quote from: chek2fire on January 17, 2016, 08:55:31 PM

My question is simple. How much block size we need to have transactions like visa or like paypal etc or to compare with all of them together? Is this real that we need to have a block size above 1gb only to have the visa transactions?
Is ever this possible to happen? And how many forks we need to have to get to this block size?
I think the fork system to correct the block size problem for transactions is in the wrong way. We all know that bitcoin was not creating to replace every day payment and we cant to do this unless we drop it decentralized system. Only with a big central database bitcoin can handle so many every day transactions.

You are getting way ahead of yourself. Lets just deal with this 2mb Bitcoin Classic Fork, get some experience and real-world data with a relatively minor and simple hardfork, and THEN we can move on to tackling even bigger scaling issues.

And it may very well be that Bitcoin NEVER reaches those dizzying heights. But my guess is that as long as we can get through the current period of brief stagnation - and we can begin to move forward in slow and sure steps, carefully and learning as we go, then as time goes by we will step with a clearer footing, more surefooted, and then at a quicker pace, a brisk walk, soon jogging, and maybe eventually at a runners pace.

But let us not get bogged down in contemplating steps that are not even in sight yet. Slow and steady, ever forward.
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chek2fire

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My question is simple. How much block size we need to have transactions like visa or like paypal etc or to compare with all of them together? Is this real that we need to have a block size above 1gb only to have the visa transactions?
Is ever this possible to happen? And how many forks we need to have to get to this block size?
I think the fork system to correct the block size problem for transactions is in the wrong way. We all know that bitcoin was not creating to replace every day payment and we cant to do this unless we drop it decentralized system. Only with a big central database bitcoin can handle so many every day transactions.

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