Topic: How much should physical Casascius Bitcoin cost today ? (Read 1548 times)

Quote from: sgk on May 19, 2015, 11:08:22 PM

I wonder if there will ever be a serious attempt at counterfeiting?

Gotta be a dead cert, surely?

There's enough Chinese coins on Ebay 'inspired' by established designs, though none of them try to pass themselves off as genuine.

It would only take a bit more precision to have a try at making a funded replica but there's probably not enough demand yet.

What if someone seriously invests some time in creating a fake casascius coin that looks and feels exactly the same but dows not have a private key?
And then sells them for 1.3 BTC each or so, claiming it to be the original coin, rare collector's item.

We haven't yet seen this happening, but this might be the same fraud as it happens with fiat money - counterfeit dollar bills.

There is one known case of a Casascius counterfeit, it was listed both on ebay and here on the market place:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/are-there-fake-casascius-coins-yet-437465
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Funded-Casascius-25-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-2011-V2-/281254829549?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item417c181ded

The case is also mentioned in Eliantes ebook on Casascius:
http://www.coinfirm.org/

To summarize all the drama:
There was two user here on bitcointalk that ended up having a 25 BTC Casascius coin with identical public addy (what a nightmare that must have been).
Mike Caldwell himself determined fairly easy which one that was fake, since this particular coin was never sold from Casascius, Mike gave it as a present to one of his close friends, and that friend had later sold it to the user on this forum.

I am not aware of any cases since this one.

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 19, 2015, 04:34:09 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on May 19, 2015, 04:34:09 PM

I wonder if there will ever be a serious attempt at counterfeiting?

Gotta be a dead cert, surely?

There's enough Chinese coins on Ebay 'inspired' by established designs, though none of them try to pass themselves off as genuine.

It would only take a bit more precision to have a try at making a funded replica but there's probably not enough demand yet.

What if someone seriously invests some time in creating a fake casascius coin that looks and feels exactly the same but dows not have a private key?
And then sells them for 1.3 BTC each or so, claiming it to be the original coin, rare collector's item.

We haven't yet seen this happening, but this might be the same fraud as it happens with fiat money - counterfeit dollar bills.

The problem is that it's really expensive and difficult. Creating a hologram exactly the same will be very very pricey, not to mention finicky since there are lots of little hidden things in the text.

sgk

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Quote from: snarlpill on May 19, 2015, 02:28:31 PM

I wonder if there will ever be a serious attempt at counterfeiting?

Gotta be a dead cert, surely?

There's enough Chinese coins on Ebay 'inspired' by established designs, though none of them try to pass themselves off as genuine.

It would only take a bit more precision to have a try at making a funded replica but there's probably not enough demand yet.

What if someone seriously invests some time in creating a fake casascius coin that looks and feels exactly the same but dows not have a private key?
And then sells them for 1.3 BTC each or so, claiming it to be the original coin, rare collector's item.

We haven't yet seen this happening, but this might be the same fraud as it happens with fiat money - counterfeit dollar bills.

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Quote from: digicoinuser on May 19, 2015, 12:40:42 PM

Thanks for that, I was under the impression those were just cheap China coins and had no idea they were a replica of an actual coin (Antana Statistic).

I hope the upcoming book that comes out regarding physical bitcoins has enough information to be able to tell the difference between these types of counterfeits.

I think it will, IIRC I saw where elianite said there will be a section on counterfeits, and elianite knows his shit pretty well. I think his book will become the authoritative reference book on all physical cryptos, sort of like the Red Book that every coin shop owner owns is for US coins. I can't wait to see his finished product, that will be very cool.

Definitely, I need to reserve a copy.

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Quote from: WhatTheGox on May 18, 2015, 04:31:42 AM

you can get them from camolist for 1.3 here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/casascius-2013-brass-05-and-10-individuals-and-sealed-rolls-131828

Camolist has increased the price to 1.35BTC.

Not too bad considering they used to be like twice the price. I probably still wouldnt buy one tbh, they are probably good as gifts to people who cant work a digital wallet though.

I had expected my 0.5 brass casascius to rise in price after I purchased it like half a year ago. It is still the same price in bitcoin, but it has actually dropped as for the bitcoin price was ~$500 when I bought it, I believe.

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Quote from: sgk on May 19, 2015, 12:25:44 PM

I wonder if there will ever be a serious attempt at counterfeiting?

Gotta be a dead cert, surely?

There's enough Chinese coins on Ebay 'inspired' by established designs, though none of them try to pass themselves off as genuine.

It would only take a bit more precision to have a try at making a funded replica but there's probably not enough demand yet.

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I wonder if there will ever be a serious attempt at counterfeiting?

snarlpill

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Wow, I didn't know about origin of the gold plated bitcoins and the fake counterparts from China.
I gifted one of them to a friend Tongue

... I guess you learn something new everyday.

Next time of i willingly gift one of those to someone, i will also take time to explain them a story about the original coins and of course the Casascius ones.

I'm not mad at ya at all, you would have no way of knowing it's a counterfeit unless you already had prior knowledge of a relatively unknown coin series. It does suck for the original creator Antana though, they make his coins worth less because people assume they are the same Chinese coins they've already seen for a buck or 2 everywhere on eBay. Like I said there are a lot of fake Titans and Lealanas as well, but these are Very Easy to spot because they don't even attempt the security hologram, and instead have a different and crappy reverse.

Quote from: digicoinuser on May 19, 2015, 12:40:42 PM

Thanks for that, I was under the impression those were just cheap China coins and had no idea they were a replica of an actual coin (Antana Statistic).

I hope the upcoming book that comes out regarding physical bitcoins has enough information to be able to tell the difference between these types of counterfeits.

I think it will, IIRC I saw where elianite said there will be a section on counterfeits, and elianite knows his shit pretty well. I think his book will become the authoritative reference book on all physical cryptos, sort of like the Red Book that every coin shop owner owns is for US coins. I can't wait to see his finished product, that will be very cool.

digicoinuser

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Quote from: sgk on May 19, 2015, 12:25:44 PM

Quote from: snarlpill on May 19, 2015, 09:13:31 AM

Quote from: snarlpill on May 19, 2015, 09:13:31 AM

For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

It's a shame though that the coin you linked to is one of the many thousands of counterfeit Antana Statistic Coins circulating on eBay from China. The real coins are gold-plated and come from Australia, and there were many batches released with a limited amount of coins, each batch commemorating a specific event from Bitcoin history and time period from the network. There are tons and tons of Antana fakes on eBay, all coming from China, and if you see those coins listed from China I would say they are counterfeits 100% of the time. Just one of a few physical Bitcoins that are heavily counterfeited in China; also look out for fake Titan Bitcoins, knock-off Lealana Litecoins, and fake plated Cold Hard Cash Silver Bitcoin Species. If anybody would like more information on how to tell if these coins seen on eBay are legitimate originals or worthless counterfeits, just send me a PM.

However, in your case sgk, for sending to someone who is not a serious collector and/or is new to Bitcoin, it probably doesn't matter to them and still serves the purpose of getting them to think about Bitcoin and learn more about it.

Wow, I didn't know about origin of the gold plated bitcoins and the fake counterparts from China.
I gifted one of them to a friend Tongue

... I guess you learn something new everyday.

Next time of i willingly gift one of those to someone, i will also take time to explain them a story about the original coins and of course the Casascius ones.

Thanks for that, I was under the impression those were just cheap China coins and had no idea they were a replica of an actual coin (Antana Statistic).

I hope the upcoming book that comes out regarding physical bitcoins has enough information to be able to tell the difference between these types of counterfeits.

sgk

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For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

It's a shame though that the coin you linked to is one of the many thousands of counterfeit Antana Statistic Coins circulating on eBay from China. The real coins are gold-plated and come from Australia, and there were many batches released with a limited amount of coins, each batch commemorating a specific event from Bitcoin history and time period from the network. There are tons and tons of Antana fakes on eBay, all coming from China, and if you see those coins listed from China I would say they are counterfeits 100% of the time. Just one of a few physical Bitcoins that are heavily counterfeited in China; also look out for fake Titan Bitcoins, knock-off Lealana Litecoins, and fake plated Cold Hard Cash Silver Bitcoin Species. If anybody would like more information on how to tell if these coins seen on eBay are legitimate originals or worthless counterfeits, just send me a PM.

However, in your case sgk, for sending to someone who is not a serious collector and/or is new to Bitcoin, it probably doesn't matter to them and still serves the purpose of getting them to think about Bitcoin and learn more about it.

Wow, I didn't know about origin of the gold plated bitcoins and the fake counterparts from China.
I gifted one of them to a friend Tongue

... I guess you learn something new everyday.

Next time of i willingly gift one of those to someone, i will also take time to explain them a story about the original coins and of course the Casascius ones.

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Quote from: Fortify on May 19, 2015, 01:19:11 AM

For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

It's a shame though that the coin you linked to is one of the many thousands of counterfeit Antana Statistic Coins circulating on eBay from China. The real coins are gold-plated and come from Australia, and there were many batches released with a limited amount of coins, each batch commemorating a specific event from Bitcoin history and time period from the network. There are tons and tons of Antana fakes on eBay, all coming from China, and if you see those coins listed from China I would say they are counterfeits 100% of the time. Just one of a few physical Bitcoins that are heavily counterfeited in China; also look out for fake Titan Bitcoins, knock-off Lealana Litecoins, and fake plated Cold Hard Cash Silver Bitcoin Species. If anybody would like more information on how to tell if these coins seen on eBay are legitimate originals or worthless counterfeits, just send me a PM.

However, in your case sgk, for sending to someone who is not a serious collector and/or is new to Bitcoin, it probably doesn't matter to them and still serves the purpose of getting them to think about Bitcoin and learn more about it.

sgk

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Quote from: WhatTheGox on May 18, 2015, 04:31:42 AM

you can get them from camolist for 1.3 here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/casascius-2013-brass-05-and-10-individuals-and-sealed-rolls-131828

Camolist has increased the price to 1.35BTC.

Not too bad considering they used to be like twice the price. I probably still wouldnt buy one tbh, they are probably good as gifts to people who cant work a digital wallet though.

For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

Nothing wrong with trying to spread the Bitcoin idea, but that coin most definitely looks nothing like a casascius - other than being round.

OK, you got me Tongue

But the casascius coin and the one I mentioned have different purposes. If you just wants to get someone curious and involved with BTC, the coin can do the job even if it does not have any funds on it. (They can buy their own BTC or Satoshis I don't care Tongue

)

Casascius coin may be for someone who is well versed in Bitcoin game and wants it as a collector's item.

Fortify

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Quote from: WhatTheGox on May 18, 2015, 04:31:42 AM

Quote from: WhatTheGox on May 18, 2015, 04:31:42 AM

you can get them from camolist for 1.3 here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/casascius-2013-brass-05-and-10-individuals-and-sealed-rolls-131828

Camolist has increased the price to 1.35BTC.

Not too bad considering they used to be like twice the price. I probably still wouldnt buy one tbh, they are probably good as gifts to people who cant work a digital wallet though.

For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

Nothing wrong with trying to spread the Bitcoin idea, but that coin most definitely looks nothing like a casascius - other than being round.

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when first started though each coin was 12 usd thats about right?

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Beautiful coins. The real value is what it's worth to you!

Here's some more information, the mintage numbers for each coin, i love this site -> http://www.spotcoins.com/bitcoin/casascius

I've paid BTC2 for a few of my BTC1 coins. I also believe that Camolist is offering the best price right now. The only problem with buying from him is that you have to wait until he has enough orders to send them out.

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I probably still wouldnt buy one tbh, they are probably good as gifts to people who cant work a digital wallet though.

I bought one from him at that price and am pleased I did. If BTC did rise to an intergalactic level I really can't foresee the premium in BTC maintaining, especially for brass, but I just fancied one so I got it. It'll always have some notoriety and they ain't making any more.

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Quote from: Technologov on May 18, 2015, 02:37:51 AM

Someone is offering to sell physical Casascius Bitcoin (1 BTC, of 2013). Fully loaded.

Are you buying an all silver, a silver+gold, or a brass coin? Is it graded? The above prices are correct if it is upgraded and brass. It would be worth significantly more if it was brass and graded high, or is silver or silver+gold

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Quote from: WhatTheGox on May 18, 2015, 04:31:42 AM

For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

But those coins can not be funded though

Depends on what type of gift you want to give I guess

sgk

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you can get them from camolist for 1.3 here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/casascius-2013-brass-05-and-10-individuals-and-sealed-rolls-131828

Camolist has increased the price to 1.35BTC.

Not too bad considering they used to be like twice the price. I probably still wouldnt buy one tbh, they are probably good as gifts to people who cant work a digital wallet though.

For gifting purposes, I prefer a 'dummy' physical Bitcoin, which looks same as the Casascius one, except it does not hold any private keys so basically a collection item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Gold-Plated-BTC-Physical-Bitcoin-Commemorative-Hobby-Art-Collection-Coin-127-/261865138280

I just gifted one to one of my friends to get him started.
They're way cheaper and gets the job done of making people curious about Bitcoin and get them started.

WhatTheGox

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