Topic: How much was Satoshi's Bitcoin worth when he last posted? (Read 445 times)

Sometimes the question in my mind is, what is the last transaction in Bitcoin from Satoshi wallet, because sometimes we need to come to a realization that there are somethings that we don't need public information on and if that be it, why are we asking for such information, and what is the advantage or contributions of such information to the current Bitcoin ecosystem, Satoshi Nakamoto have played his part and he moved on, regardless of what and where he is, we should let it be instead trying to generate some baseless discussion concerning Satoshi of what the heck he does with the Bitcoin holdings at that time.

Also getting Satoshi total Bitcoin worth as at the tinthe last posted in this forum is very simple, because the profile Satoshi is very much available in the forum all that you need to do, is to visit the account last posts, and get the date and time of his last post, and then search them in Blockchain explorer, you will get all the needed information, about his Bitcoin value wort as at that time.

Where do you draw all these conclusions from? How do you know what his real intention was besides what has been written in the white paper? Maybe not as a get-rich-quick scheme as I assume that someone being able to write code like that would probably have the ability to scam people otherwise and get rich quicker. But you never know, he could have had hidden shares in crypto exchanges, everything is possible as nothing is impossible. it's rather a question of how much sense do some of the theories make. Destroying the private keys, but for what purpose?

That "trust" you are talking about is an illusion in your head. It doesn't exist because Bitcoin isn't designed to be based on p2p trust, but on p-to-network trust. People trust the network because it does its job algorithmically and in an incentivized way such that acting in the best interest of themselves means acting in the best interest of the network means acting in the best interest of all peers due to what is at stake if they try to behave against the best interest of the network.

Bitcoin became so big because there is no trust that can be broken by Satoshi. If he moves his coins, it won't change much in regards to the long term vision. The only reason I see that moving these coins could become problematic is if it turns out that the North Korean dictator owns over 1 million BTC. I don't know what the repercussions would be.

My best guess would be that whoever is behind Bitcoin, the actor doesn't need money and had plans beyond just coding Bitcoin and then say goodbye.

Whether it is 1M BTC or not, nobody was for obvious reasons able to precisely pin it down to a single number. But there are ballparks that suggest it is somewhere around there and I think it makes sense. But again I don't know.

As for the CIA/NSA, I pertain to the category of people who neither claim to be sure about one option nor exclude any option from the realm of possibilities. But regarding the CIA specifically, it is known that they know a thing or two about cryptography and how to spy on almost the entire world for decades without going noticed.

But ok, I would exclude one option. It wasn't probably our alcoholic neighbor Joe, smoking cigarettes in his basement, using his IT skills from 30 years ago and now living his life on social security.

Thanks for that info. I was pretty sure Satoshi's main load of 1M Bitcoin hadn't been moved.

So the fact remains that Satoshi, if he is still alive, has access to about $60 billion in Bitcoin assuming he hasn't lost it (which is unlikely to happen, I believe).

This bolsters my thesis that Satoshi was actually a person or team at the CIA or NSA. It's very very strange to me that somebody who invented this system wouldn't take even a dollar from it--that just doesn't gibe with everything I know about human nature.

However, if it was the CIA/NSA, they wouldn't be able to cash in the coins based on the need for secrecy, the paperwork involved, etc.

I don't think philipma1957 actually meant that Satoshi is moving coins frequently from wallets proven to belong to him because as far as I know that has never happened. It's not really proven how many BTC and how many wallets Satoshi really owns either.

But what has happened in the past are things like this



and as you can see, they write "analysis suggests". Nobody knows for sure whether Satoshi has kept mining for years afterwards. He could have set up new wallets that are not connected to those knows from the very early days. Or whether he has been acquiring any afterwards. But if he has access to his wallets right now, I am dead sure that he would never move tiny amounts to peel off some pocket money on a quarterly or semiannual  basis!

@philipma1957 you are a very modest man, getting along with only 50 BTC sold twice a year  I assume the yacht is already bought, so you only need some cash to refuel it! Oh and some food and water just to survive of course off of those 50 BTC twice a year.

Is there any actual evidence of that?

it is obvious that he likely peels off 50 coins every once in a while and sells them.

I think three million one or two times a year would work for me.

Why would that have ruined anything? His coins were his coins, and everybody knew it. He might have been "playing a long game", but not in the sense that we would out and out destroy them.

And the idea that he is just sitting there, knowing he's the author a gigantic technological change without telling anybody... doesn't add up I don't think.

Or maybe he simply destroyed the private keys on purpose? We have to understand that the Bitcoin ecosystem was much different back then. It was probably only a handful of enthusiasts interested in the technology, and apparently Satoshi did not create the system as a "get-rich-quick" scheme.  He knew everyone was watching those first mined coins. Its like he was playing a long game, and cashing out those coins would have ruined the whole thing. Bitcoin wouldnt be what it is today if he had broken that trust.

Its possible he viewed the project as a success and moved on, leaving the future of Bitcoin to the community.

You don't pay capital gains tax on unrealized gains, so there would be no problem (assuming he is in the US).



Besides Elon and Bill here, there are lots and lots of billionaires and centimillionaires that blend right in and they might be in line at the supermarket with you for all you know. Folks like Elon and Bill actually went out of their way to maintain a high profile for their own reasons.

And, wouldn't you know it, there's a thriving industry around keeping the lives of billionaires very private and quiet . Throw enough money at the problem, and it gets... solved...

Most major "holders" are people with billions of dollars net worth already. How do you think the state would react if a person, out of nowhere, suddenly decided to sell a million bitcoin? You think it's easy to justify that to the taxman? People frequently experience tax problems with far less than that, because for more than 10 years there was barely a legislative framework for cryptocurrencies.

And I'm still quite unsure of your point. That being a famous billionaire is better than an infamous? I'm pretty sure I'd feel better if I had infinite money without anyone knowing it than being an Elon Musk.

I agree it's more of a risk than coding and talking etc., but most people who remain anonymous never had the whole world looking for them like Satoshi has. My point is that he was clearly very very good at it. Net-net, based on the attention he brought to himself, creating Bitcoin was the most dangerous thing anybody could have done.



I've known lots and lots of people (I'm a silicon valley vet of many successful startups) who thought they would be satisfied with a few million dollars--until they got a few million dollars and understood how little that changed their life .


Most major Bitcoin holders don't hold their keys, either. They leave that to experts like at Coinbase etc. Then they are no different than Elon Musk or Bill Gates.


They hire people and it's done, and they hire people to pay those people. Those billionaires have far more free time than average joes, and they live a life that is far safer.

Does this man look like he's fretting for his life?

Creating Bitcoin did not require risking his anonymity. You can work from home, connect to mailing lists and forums via Tor, and just be cautious to not leave any hints of who you are. Selling bitcoin, on the other hand, requires revealing an information which can be linked to your real world identity, even if you accept just cash via mail.

We frequently notice old coins being moved. It would be possible Satoshi spent some of them in 2011, just to see it working. Then, in 2013, sell another thousand, and become a millionaire. Then, in 2017. Then, a few weeks ago with that block reward I shared in my previous post. That would be far more preferable than publicly announce he's selling Satoshi's coins.

Yes, some of us would be satisfied with just a few million dollars.

No one has $60 billion in cash or gold. This is a completely different situation, one none of us would want to be in with the whole world aware of it. It would be extremely dangerous.

Maybe a person does not want to hire an army of security and lawyers for the sake of living his life? Maybe... You know, he wants to live like a regular human being?

Yes, as far as I know Satoshi hasn't said anything himself. So the only evidence we have is the statements made by Hal Finney regarding his communications with Satoshi and that he received the coins as a test.

That's what I always found very odd when people come up with the conclusion that he is most likely dead. Is it because they think otherwise he wouldn't be able to resist to access the coins?

The theories I read on this forum so far that I found weird were that he is dead, or that he lost his private keys... If a guy writing the code for BTC the lost his private keys giving him access to a million BTC (or whatever the amount is), that's the most absurd option of all of them to me.

And I have to say that I don't understand the discussion at all because didn't we all agree that Craig Steven Wright is Satoshi? 

Compared to creating Bitcoin? In order to stay anonymous all of this time (and with a potential $50 billion payoff), he was obviously extremely adept at maintaining his anonymity. I don't think somebody like that would be too afraid of using an anonymous exchange to get USD. And of course the flip side to why is... millions of dollars? That's usually a pretty good motivation for most normal humans .


Yes, I am. So are you . Anybody here who pretends they "know for certain" here shouldn't be listened to.

You are speculating. There is no way to know for sure. Maybe he just wanted to remain anonymous. If he didnt want to reveal his identity back then, when Bitcoin wasnt that popular or valuable in the first place, why would he do it now? You say "for fun". But do you understand that revealing his identity could impact his personal life and safety? Not to mention legal challenges related to the creation and distribution of Bitcoin, depending on the jurisdiction.  It could totally mess up his life. Thats why its probably better for him to stay anonymous.

he is likely peeling off a block here and there.

it is over 3,000,000 usd when he does it. So,depending on how he or she lives that is more than enough.

Let's leave asides that the real world is one big surveillance State for a moment. Why would he reveal such an extremely sensitive information to the trade? I don't understand, what's the benefit he gains? Why not just pretend he is an early miner?

I think you've got it backwards. Back then, there were barely exchanges for converting your bitcoin to electronic fiat. Selling bitcoin for cash is a pretty recent option, and even today it's difficult.

It's impossible to believe he would sit on top of $60 billion without touching a cent, but it's entirely reasonable in my mind, to take just 0.1% of that, live like a king while risking nothing. Seriously, think about it. What would you rather have: a few million dollars and nobody would know a damn, or billions and everybody would know your name and that you literally reinvented money?

An adult does not risk his life for the lolz.

Why not spend them under his "name" since it's obviously a very carefully (and successfully) guarded alias? In other words, what would he be afraid of? I suspect that--especially early on--there would be very secure ways of converting the Bitcoin to USD (physical paper) and thus stay completely anonymous. I agree that what you are saying is possible, but I think there's contraindications here too.


I think it's impossible to believe that somebody would sit on $60 billion (or even $60 million). I also think that it's very unlikely somebody who did something like this would never want the world to know it was them--that just doesn't jibe with everything I've ever learned about human nature in my years on this planet. Hence, even if he actually lost the keys (which doesn't seem very likely), I still have a hard time believing he would not reveal himself just for fun.

I hope he's healthy and doing well too--after all, in my scenario he's probably made GS15 by now .