How the casino takes money from you with a deposit bonus - page 3.

Reatim

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This only comes for those who are dedicated in gambling and not just for the bonuses and lets be truth mate as that is why being called "BONUS" ? because it is just a bonus meaning that is only given to those who are playing and not for someone that expect just to surely pocket money .

Gambling is a business mean what? people inside the team wanted to earn and not to give away money.

and simple solution ? don't play for bonuses instead play for what you believe the site that can give you more chances to win(depend on what you believe in)

Quote from: darkangel11 on June 18, 2023, 02:33:08 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on June 16, 2023, 05:57:37 PM

I don't understand why you say first we need to wager 50x times the deposit "x25 (D+B) = x50" and then you say we need to wager 50x times the deposit+the bonus "(wager 200*50=10k)" You've made a mistake I think. If the customer deposits $100 he will need to wager 50 x 100 = 5000$ or (100 + 100) x 25 = 200 x 25 = 5000$

You're probably right about this. The wager requirement is for the bonus, not the deposit.
Although the casino has it calculated, if you see it from the player's perspective, let's say he plays with a $1 wager, so $100 gives 100 dice rolls, or slot spins, or whatever he chooses to play, but $200 allows for 200. The player benefits from it, even though the math is not in his favor, because he could be at a win after 100 rolls, but he'll still have to make more, putting the won amount at stake. That's what the casino wants, so that he keeps playing even if he gets a win early in the game, so a bonus can be somewhat limiting if you get lucky fast.

the computation seems to be correct and OP overestimated the amount to be wagered .

goldkingcoiner

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obviously, sign up as well as deposit bonuses are just marketing tools for online gambling casinos. And they are very effective.

from the perspective of a marketing guy, I understand and respect why this tactic is used in the world of gambling to find new customers (gamblers) for their gambling website. But that does not really mean that this is how the casinos take money from you. It is just how they get new people to use their gambling website. Basically what I mean is that advertising is what any business does, Casinos are not exempt from that.

But yes, casinos hope that you will probably gamble and lose both the deposit and the bonus. But that's just business.

BitcoinPanther

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I also avoid claiming deposit bonus because I feel that the bonus is a trap. I agree on the calculation of @OP and claiming the bonus is like giving the bonus back with our fund. We all know that in a casino, the longer we stay in a single game the greater the chance to lose. Aside from that claiming bonus had another set of requirement and often time the wagering requirement triggers when we lost our deposited bankroll. And deposit bonus got consume after we lost all our bankroll.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: Plaguedeath on June 19, 2023, 11:14:27 AM

Quote from: aioc on June 19, 2023, 10:45:14 AM

A deposit bonus is very attractive and used mainly to test the casino but be sure to check the rule of the deposit bonus so you'll know what to expect.

I don't think deposit bonus is used to test the casino, most of casinos already have worthless token or faucet which can be used to test the casino without need to risk any money and you can gamble it as much as you want.

Deposit bonus is usually use to attract new people to gambler because they're still not familiar with deposit bonus rules and they think they can make easy money.

most of them are bait for the players. but sad to say, a lot of them failed to check the terms that come with it and usually, it has high wagering requirements. let's admit the fact that most of the games you will play won't let your bankroll survive for long especially if you don't know how to prolong your bankroll. hence, suffice to say, if you will comply with the terms for the deposit bonus, i don't think you will ever get to the point of withdrawing your winnings.
that is the very reason why casinos are offering lucrative deposit bonuses because they know most of these cases will just go to their vaults at the end of the day. and still giving a positive notion to the casino promotion.

Plaguedeath

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Quote from: aioc on June 19, 2023, 10:45:14 AM

A deposit bonus is very attractive and used mainly to test the casino but be sure to check the rule of the deposit bonus so you'll know what to expect.

I don't think deposit bonus is used to test the casino, most of casinos already have worthless token or faucet which can be used to test the casino without need to risk any money and you can gamble it as much as you want.

Deposit bonus is usually use to attract new people to gambler because they're still not familiar with deposit bonus rules and they think they can make easy money.

aioc

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This is the reason why when promoting to new players I seldom use deposit bonuses I prefer to promote the reputation of the casino, the games, and potential winning, and if I promote the deposit bonuses I clearly explain the rules so my referral will not blame me in case he'll have an issue with the wagering requirement.

A deposit bonus is very attractive and used mainly to test the casino but be sure to check the rule of the deposit bonus so you'll know what to expect.

YOSHIE

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Quote from: markk1 on June 16, 2023, 05:44:03 PM

Damn, i really didn't make it with the rules x10-x30 it really pisses me off, i don't care deposit bonus, daily bonus, bet bonus and so on, I prefer to deposit, bet winning is mine, losing is bad luck for me, I don't want to bother with x10 and x50 it sucks, I am currently active at 4 online casinos, all of which have bonuses, but I don't use any of them, just let them drift away in the waves.

Before i know how the casino applies the bonus rules, i always lose, it's not mine, since i know the bonus is one of blah, blah, I put it on the bed, it doesn't matter if it disappears or not, bonuses are not a good solution for me in betting.

Casdinyard

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Quote from: slapper on June 19, 2023, 08:24:27 AM

Quote from: Mauser on June 19, 2023, 02:26:00 AM

Quote from: markk1 on June 16, 2023, 05:44:03 PM

The best bonus is not to take the bonus if it has a big wager, because it will be -EV (-Expected value). Any casino game is -EV, if you play by the rules of the casino. I will give an example of why you should not take deposit bonuses with a high wager. The casino gives a 100% bonus on the first deposit and wager x40 (D+B) = 200 x40 = 8k, we make a deposit of $100 and they give us another $100 = $200 (wager 200*40=8k). The casino has an average RTP of 96% (percent is different everywhere, depends on slots or house games and so on). For every $100 wagered we get back $96 according to the mathematical expectation (100-96=4), $960 for 1k wager (1000-960=40), $7680 for 8k wager (8000-7680=320). And after the full wagering, we will lose $320 (D+B and also we need more $120), which gives a very large -EV. Who thinks about this and the casinos began to raise the wager.

It's true that all casino games are negative EV for the player and it will be very unlikely for us to win constantly at the games. The longer we play the more likely is it for the casino to win. Which is not guaranteed though, the negative EV means that on average the number of losers at the casino will be higher than the number of winners. That's how the casino makes it money, but it's not a guarantee that there will be only losers. Some gamblers will be lucky and make money. As for your calculation the deposit bonus is only, and with a x40 wager requirement it would mean we need to wager 4k USD. The 96% RTP is not specific, with roulette or a good blackjack strategy we can get higher winning chances. So even with the lower 96% we would have 3840 USD after watering 4k, which would leaves us with 40 from our 100. And let's say we play more optimal with 98% RTP, we would make 20 USD profit. Also most deposit bonuses are 200%. So far k had good experiences with deposit bonuses, just don't focus on instantly chasing out again, eventually you will hit the barrier to withdraw.

You've a hint of truth regarding casino bonuses, yet a deeper grasp of casino math is vital. All games being -EV is, broadly, correct but remember, it's an extended period average. An individual's reality could differ greatly. Your RTP point, around 96%, overlooks a key fact: RTP reflects millions of spins, not one game. So, one could still score a big win short-term, RTP notwithstanding. Moreover, discussing expected losses, wagering requirement and bonus size are key. A smaller requirement could, in theory, make a bonus worthwhile, even with a -EV game.

While there's some truth to your statement, I'm pretty positive that RTP stands and represents well how much your average win will be regardless. The problem with your statement is that it takes into account eventualities that do not happen in average, whereas these guidelines are made to give the gamblers a pretty good picture of how a usual game will go, regardless of how many spins/turns it took for them to come up with that percentage.

Let me ask you this, how many people win massive short-term prizes in slots in one sitting? Do they represent the general public of people who are gambling in slots? Are their results relevant enough to take into account when you're talking about EV and RTP? I don't think so.

Helena Yu

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In the end, if you think you can beat the casino through lucky based games, you're only dreaming. Before the casino launch the welcome bonus, they have calculated it and make sure most of the gamblers will lose, if they're giving welcome bonus in order to make the gamblers win, they will going to bankrupt ASAP.

It's not about deposit bonus, but wager contest, rakeback, etc something involved in lucky based games aren't ways to beat the house.

slapper

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Quote from: Mauser on June 19, 2023, 02:26:00 AM

Quote from: markk1 on June 16, 2023, 05:44:03 PM

The best bonus is not to take the bonus if it has a big wager, because it will be -EV (-Expected value). Any casino game is -EV, if you play by the rules of the casino. I will give an example of why you should not take deposit bonuses with a high wager. The casino gives a 100% bonus on the first deposit and wager x40 (D+B) = 200 x40 = 8k, we make a deposit of $100 and they give us another $100 = $200 (wager 200*40=8k). The casino has an average RTP of 96% (percent is different everywhere, depends on slots or house games and so on). For every $100 wagered we get back $96 according to the mathematical expectation (100-96=4), $960 for 1k wager (1000-960=40), $7680 for 8k wager (8000-7680=320). And after the full wagering, we will lose $320 (D+B and also we need more $120), which gives a very large -EV. Who thinks about this and the casinos began to raise the wager.

It's true that all casino games are negative EV for the player and it will be very unlikely for us to win constantly at the games. The longer we play the more likely is it for the casino to win. Which is not guaranteed though, the negative EV means that on average the number of losers at the casino will be higher than the number of winners. That's how the casino makes it money, but it's not a guarantee that there will be only losers. Some gamblers will be lucky and make money. As for your calculation the deposit bonus is only, and with a x40 wager requirement it would mean we need to wager 4k USD. The 96% RTP is not specific, with roulette or a good blackjack strategy we can get higher winning chances. So even with the lower 96% we would have 3840 USD after watering 4k, which would leaves us with 40 from our 100. And let's say we play more optimal with 98% RTP, we would make 20 USD profit. Also most deposit bonuses are 200%. So far k had good experiences with deposit bonuses, just don't focus on instantly chasing out again, eventually you will hit the barrier to withdraw.

You've a hint of truth regarding casino bonuses, yet a deeper grasp of casino math is vital. All games being -EV is, broadly, correct but remember, it's an extended period average. An individual's reality could differ greatly. Your RTP point, around 96%, overlooks a key fact: RTP reflects millions of spins, not one game. So, one could still score a big win short-term, RTP notwithstanding. Moreover, discussing expected losses, wagering requirement and bonus size are key. A smaller requirement could, in theory, make a bonus worthwhile, even with a -EV game.

piebeyb

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Quote from: coin-investor on June 19, 2023, 05:27:33 AM

I agree it's deceptive and yet it's still the popular way to invite gamblers to try their games, I seldom participate in deposit bonuses, because of the requirements, I prefer to deposit with no attachment of unusually high wagering requirements.
Only good if you want to try the platform without thinking of any profit and just want to play be entertained and let whatever happens, happen, I am more comfortable with that.

Actually the word casino cheats is also unethical because casino marketing techniques are like that, so it's a bit harsh to say it's cheating even though it doesn't look that different, we know the marketing team works behind the casino and they keep trying to attract users by giving bonuses like this, we agree and Surely you see a lot on the internet, lots of other marketing services which can help sell goods that are not feasible but sell well, that's how marketing works.

Tricks and marketing techniques at casinos because they can attract users to gamble in them, moreover the better the marketing techniques the more successful the casino becomes big and earns a lot of money, there are many cases of new users who don't read the requirements so they are lulled by the bonus finally register then play then it's hard reach the requirements eventually play until their deposit money runs out. this is not a trick but a great marketing technique in it.. Cheesy

tusandii

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Quote from: coin-investor on June 19, 2023, 05:27:33 AM

I agree it's deceptive and yet it's still the popular way to invite gamblers to try their games, I seldom participate in deposit bonuses, because of the requirements, I prefer to deposit with no attachment of unusually high wagering requirements.
Only good if you want to try the platform without thinking of any profit and just want to play be entertained and let whatever happens, happen, I am more comfortable with that.

Maybe many gamblers have come to the conclusion that this is deceptive, but it's strange, why are there still so many gamblers chasing this bonus?
In my opinion, if we don't like one of the existing bonuses, it's better not to chase it without having to say that the bonus is unfair because after all, casinos are set up to do business, so it's only natural that there are a few things that make gamblers lose because of bonuses or promotions.
As in your last sentence, I agree with that and it is indeed better to choose a site that we can rely on for us to have fun without aiming to make a profit from a promotional bonus.

coinerer

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Quote from: markk1 on June 16, 2023, 05:44:03 PM

Snip

Giving deposit bonuses is a strategy of gambling sites that helps them attract gamblers. but when one accepts the bonus he must comply with the wagering requirements and as soon as he makes the deposit he will get the bonus but his balance will be frozen. So it is better to avoid bonus and gamble with break instead of panic is the best strategy to succeed in gambling. however, many people do not understand this issue and face many problems and lose a lot of money in gambling.

Doan9269

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Quote from: coin-investor on June 19, 2023, 05:27:33 AM

I agree it's deceptive and yet it's still the popular way to invite gamblers to try their games, I seldom participate in deposit bonuses, because of the requirements, I prefer to deposit with no attachment of unusually high wagering requirements.
Only good if you want to try the platform without thinking of any profit and just want to play be entertained and let whatever happens, happen, I am more comfortable with that.

There's nothing being deceptive here since they can't just expect receiving bonus from the platform and just make a withdrawal of those bonuses, what the gamblers don't often times know is the conditions they lay for such bonus offers, they gambling platforms will run a lost if they allow withdrawal of bonus without making a deposit first, i believe most of these bonuses were offered just to be used in trying their website and checking their plaform performance by giving a try on it and not to just go ahead straight to withdrawing them except you've meet up with some certain conditions.

coin-investor

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I agree it's deceptive and yet it's still the popular way to invite gamblers to try their games, I seldom participate in deposit bonuses, because of the requirements, I prefer to deposit with no attachment of unusually high wagering requirements.
Only good if you want to try the platform without thinking of any profit and just want to play be entertained and let whatever happens, happen, I am more comfortable with that.

Mauser

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Quote from: markk1 on June 16, 2023, 05:44:03 PM

The best bonus is not to take the bonus if it has a big wager, because it will be -EV (-Expected value). Any casino game is -EV, if you play by the rules of the casino. I will give an example of why you should not take deposit bonuses with a high wager. The casino gives a 100% bonus on the first deposit and wager x40 (D+B) = 200 x40 = 8k, we make a deposit of $100 and they give us another $100 = $200 (wager 200*40=8k). The casino has an average RTP of 96% (percent is different everywhere, depends on slots or house games and so on). For every $100 wagered we get back $96 according to the mathematical expectation (100-96=4), $960 for 1k wager (1000-960=40), $7680 for 8k wager (8000-7680=320). And after the full wagering, we will lose $320 (D+B and also we need more $120), which gives a very large -EV. Who thinks about this and the casinos began to raise the wager.

It's true that all casino games are negative EV for the player and it will be very unlikely for us to win constantly at the games. The longer we play the more likely is it for the casino to win. Which is not guaranteed though, the negative EV means that on average the number of losers at the casino will be higher than the number of winners. That's how the casino makes it money, but it's not a guarantee that there will be only losers. Some gamblers will be lucky and make money. As for your calculation the deposit bonus is only, and with a x40 wager requirement it would mean we need to wager 4k USD. The 96% RTP is not specific, with roulette or a good blackjack strategy we can get higher winning chances. So even with the lower 96% we would have 3840 USD after watering 4k, which would leaves us with 40 from our 100. And let's say we play more optimal with 98% RTP, we would make 20 USD profit. Also most deposit bonuses are 200%. So far k had good experiences with deposit bonuses, just don't focus on instantly chasing out again, eventually you will hit the barrier to withdraw.

ralle14

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Quote from: harizen on June 17, 2023, 05:27:58 AM

The bottom line though is, regardless of the RTP or anything, or what the required turnover is, it ends up to the user's luck.

I agree, I remember taking a bonus with a low wagering requirement, but it didn't matter because I couldn't win anything good from most of my spins.

Quote from: Webetcoins on June 18, 2023, 12:55:42 PM

What's the best is not to gamble with casinos that has such high wagering requirements for the bonuses they give out, because someone will surely lose his deposit before he manages to complete the wagering requirement which makes the bonus totally useless, people get excited when they see the percentage of the bonuses they can get for their deposits without understanding that they will get absolutely nothing out of that bonus.

So it is much better if you only gamble at casinos that requires you to complete a lower wagering requirement for both the deposit and the bonus, or one should simply gamble only with their deposited amount so that they don't have to go through the hassle.

Only if you can find a casino with a low wagering requirement because it's rare to find a deposit bonus that doesn't have a high wagering requirement.

Gamblers shouldn't limit themselves to deposit bonuses as well now that casinos have different ways to reward their players.

SamReomo

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Quote from: seleme on June 17, 2023, 05:50:13 PM

Quote from: goaldigger on June 17, 2023, 05:47:14 PM

Quote from: seleme on June 17, 2023, 05:38:48 PM

I personally don't like deposit bonuses for obvious reasons that have been mentioned here. There are various deposit bonus offers at different casinos but the hidden conditions make it hard to reach the mentioned level. The scenario is totally different for casino streamers who get a commission from wagering such bonuses btw.

Deposit bonus is not just to attract new gamblers but also to force them to gamble more and that’s the reality. So don’t get fooled about the 100% bonus when you deposit first because you’ll need to accomplish a task before you actually receive it, and that means you can lose more before you actually earn that bonus. Many casinos uses this kind of hype just to promote their site, again read everything before you believe on it.

Ofc, I don't deposit on a website that has no concrete T&S about deposit bonuses or promotions, there are several websites that offer such bonuses without clear terms and conditions. Promoting the website is just one side of the job, there are various cases that have been used against users to make marketing moves. Some users don't look closely and jump into such offers, unfortunately.

You're somewhat right about those users because most of the users get too greedy when they get bonuses that they avoid reading all the T&C of the casino site that's offering those bonuses. They get trapped in the game of the terms, and they in turn will have to play endlessly even if they are profitable most of the time. Those people should first read the terms and conditions before getting those bonuses. I don't think it's even necessary to have those bonuses in first place because only a loser type of gambler needs those bonuses to play more bets.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Saint-loup on June 16, 2023, 05:57:37 PM

I don't understand why you say first we need to wager 50x times the deposit "x25 (D+B) = x50" and then you say we need to wager 50x times the deposit+the bonus "(wager 200*50=10k)" You've made a mistake I think. If the customer deposits $100 he will need to wager 50 x 100 = 5000$ or (100 + 100) x 25 = 200 x 25 = 5000$

You're probably right about this. The wager requirement is for the bonus, not the deposit.
Although the casino has it calculated, if you see it from the player's perspective, let's say he plays with a $1 wager, so $100 gives 100 dice rolls, or slot spins, or whatever he chooses to play, but $200 allows for 200. The player benefits from it, even though the math is not in his favor, because he could be at a win after 100 rolls, but he'll still have to make more, putting the won amount at stake. That's what the casino wants, so that he keeps playing even if he gets a win early in the game, so a bonus can be somewhat limiting if you get lucky fast.

Casdinyard

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Deposit bonuses are a death trap.

You put in money hoping you'd get something more out of it until you realize that the money you got from them will be spent on their games and in turn return to their pockets anyway, nobody has been able to cheat at this system so far (AFAIK, let me know if there's someone and have him share his strat to let other people know of it as well because this type of borderline scamming is just god awful) since it centers around the casino itself, so the best way to win the game is to really not play it. There are casinos who still do this to this day cause there's market for people who are gullible enough to believe in this shenanigan. In any case, just don't look for bonuses when you play in a casino. That should do it really.

Topic: How the casino takes money from you with a deposit bonus - page 3. (Read 741 times)