Topic: How to clone Bitcoin to create your own crypto currency / crypto shares system - page 3. (Read 48027 times)

Okay so decide then, how many units?

They can all be issued to you in the first block.

How much are you going to pay miners to mine it?

It is because mining it (SECURING IT) is so expensive that UKB, CDN, GMC, GRF, UNS, NKL etc moved away from using blockchains, it is insanely expensive to secure a blockchain.

They moved to Open Transactions, maybe you should consider issuing under Open Transactions too?

Or, wait for coloured coins systems to mature and issue coloured coins.

-MarkM-

I'm working on a project now and I would really need my own crypto currency to use as crypto shares.

If anyone could help me to develop my own crypto currency system I will offer 2.5 BTC + 1% of the shares.

Requirements:

-The units should be produced really quickly.
-I want to be able to decide the number of units produced.
-I want to be satisfied with the software you produce before paying.

I suppose attacker can create fake transactions and steal all your 21M MCs

I appreciate your advice. Yes, this is what I have in mind. No dividends but you could still stipulate in the contract that a percentage of the profits from whatever commercial project you are involved with will be used to buy back the coins/shares, in order to stabilize their underlying value and encourage trade.

When you say blockchains are too vulnerable, what exactly do you mean? Are they really vulnerable if all the coins/shares have already been mined?

Fancy a game of Cryptopoly?
 

Yes, basically it is very much like shares when you do that, except maybe with no dividends and maybe they are non-voting shares.

The value of the coins lies in the "reserves" (assets) the issuer owns, the "backing" they have available with which to "back" the coins.

This can actually work better than having coins issued by random "miners" since random "miners" often just "dump" the coins instead of "backing" them with their assets.

But, blockchains turned out to be too vulnerable. Coloured coins might be a better format to use for such things; others moved to Open Transactions for now though maybe they will end up moving on to become coloured coins instead of back to being actual blockchains once we see how coloured coins work out.

-MarkM-

Right, just make the genesis block worth 21 million MC (MonopolyCoin) 

It's even possible to give your coins to yourself (i.e. "issuer") from start.

Is it technically possible to clone the bitcoin client and adjust the parameters so all the coins are mined within a very short timespan (hours or days) rather than decades?

holy shit, there is a whole jungle of alternacoins and otcoins now. you think any of these is going somewhere?

With coloured coins each client only has to remember the colours its user likes, and optionally treat all other colours as "coloured but my user doesn't care what colour they actually are" to prevent mistaking uncoloured coins for coloured coins thus "wasting" unfamiliar / unliked colours by treating them as uncoloured.

Periodically user could review how much of their coin is tied up in colours they don't care about, run a breakdown of that showing how many unfamiliar colours it consists of and eyeball whether he/she has enough of any one unknown colour to consider researching that colour to see if maybe that amount is enough to be worth recognising that colour in future, and think about whether to deliberately tell client one or more of the unfamiliar colours to treat, with deliberate aforethought, as uncoloured and thus have no qualms about mixing/melting back into uncolouredness.

With merged chains it is still not clear whether having more than a few will prove worthwhile. Those that moved all their balances back out of blockchain format onto an Open Transactions server seem to be doing far far better value-wise than those that stayed in blockchain form allowing anyone and their GPU to mine-and-dump them constantly undermining their value. (See http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html even bitcoin itself seems to be suffering vastly from mine-and-dump syndrome so that some of the altcoins that moved to Open Transactions look like they might yet catch up with bitcoins in value...)

-MarkM-

I've been toying with this idea, as well as using "closed" alt-coin clones for internal company accounting.

However, having run across coloured(smart) coins, contracts, smartproperty, pay-to-policy outputs & distributed bonds, I see the light as it shines down on issuing various types of securities. 

Any way that I've looked into it, the blockchain security issue is the most significant barrier to making many bitcoin clones. Massively merged mining is problematic, and without the level of security of the larger network(s) you're exposing yourself to the risk of a dishonest miner connecting to the altcoin chain, and attacking it.

Furthermore, if securities are traded p2p, via colored coins, they're, by definition, globally tradeable, by anyone with the client. The cloned coin solution requires a multi-coin client, that supports each different coin's alterations to the core bitcoin code. This simply doesn't scale. Look at this solution down the road, and imagine hundreds of thousands of public securities, each having their own altcoin, and consider the scaling issues on the client side, and the blockchain security side. Colored Coins/Contracts/Smartproperty has no different scaling issues than bitcoin itself.

Merged minig is only possible if the secondary chain is somehow related to the main bitcoin chain.
And i think the effect of ASICs would be a little more subtle.
Against people without the asic hardware it would become more secure and you could spread that hashing power across multiple chains and still have enough left to make the bitcoin chain stronger.
Seen from inside there could be problems when big miners switch coin as that would mean a direct transfer of security from one chain to another.

mobodick, you forget about merged mining. It doesn't suck hashing power away from it's host chain.

ASICs won't really fundamentally change anything: attackers can get ASICs too, so they will simply make GPU mining obsolete. Just like GPU mining obsoleted CPU mining. Hashing power did not become "abundant" when GPU mining was invented.

They're there because some people got gredy and thought they can start a new chain and mine a shitload solo and then hope others will put value into their personal coins.
Any successfull parallel chain would suck hashing power away from bitcoin.
When ASICS prove to be as powerfull as they are claimed to be and we get abundant hashing power we can maybe start this discussion.
But for now it would water down the network.

So you say. I say let's facilitate the creation a multitude of bitcoin clones. Some of them might get hacked and attacked, some of them might survive.

Through the process we will develop new technologies for protecting fledgling crypto currencies from attacks.

If there's really no point of cloning crypto currencies, how come there are already a dozen or so of them out there? Many skilled developers are working on those projects.

I updated bitshares.tk

-Registering and logging in is now working (I think)
-Menus updated and switched, wiki page is now frontpage
-DNS settings updated

MarkM, I took the liberty of updating the wiki page with your latest post. Please let me know if you want me to remove that content, alternative you can edit it yourself if you register on the site.

Skip all the below and search "coloured coins" and/or "colored coins", colour some coins and you're good.

Or read on:

It is easy. Simply convince 51% or more of miners to merged-mine yet another chain.

Currently the maximum number of chains being merged mined by anyone I know of is only seven: BTC, NMC, DVC, GRP, IXC, I0C and CLC.

(I had to stop trying to add geistgeld to the merge for now as it was too resource-intensive, interfering with my machine's ability to handle the others well. More machines might fix that but will/would cost more electricity.)

So the most useful first step toward your goal would be to work on getting more miners to add more chains to their merge, since until they all see and experience as fact that merging seven at once works fine there is no point trying to add more to the list.

For people in a hurry and not too worried yet about attackers, GRP is still looking good because it is insanely low difficulty still, even CPUs can mine it, so it is basically so incredibly dirt cheap to mine it again makes little to no sense to try to add yet another to the list when this one is sitting there ripe for the taking even by people who only have CPUs.

It also serves as a weather-vane to all the many chains that are waiting in the wings, especially the ones that moved to the Open Transactions platform in order to establish transaction volume sufficient to attract miners before attempting to go public in blockchain form once again. Basically if you can succeed in getting enough miners to merged mine GRouPcoin to make it secure against attack, then entire groups of chains who are ready to come out of the closet the moment miners become open to merged mining more chains can do so. If they too can also get enough miners merged-mining them to render them too secure, then possibly we will have proven that spawning even more is reasonably do-able.

Meanwhile proving on some other platform that you have enough transaction volume to make your currency attractive to miners could also move you along toward your goal. Open Transactions is probably not the only platform you could use to get your economy up and running and thriving sufficiently that it reaches a point at which the cost of paying miners so you can reasonably move to a blockchain format is a reasonable overhead cost compared to the sheer volume of sales / transactions / activity going on in your currency's economy.

Take a look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html to see how some of the currencies working their way up in non-blockchain form toward a point where going back to being blockchains (as they were originally and as they were designed and intended) are doing toward that goal...

-MarkM-

Yeah, yeah. Easy cheezy. But seriously, MarkM, I like one part of what you're saying, namely the part about it being "trivial to create another [...] blockchain-based currency".

I want to make it even more trivial by showing everyone in the world how to create their own crypto currency / crypto share.

If you show me how to do it, I will show the world by writing down and publishing comprehensible instructions that anyone can follow. It could be good for the crypto currency industry as well, because it would let more entrepreneurs get started rapidly with their own currencies (which they could also use as shares).