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Topic: How to deal with bumping via fake conversation? - page 4. (Read 1513 times)

full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 184
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Reporting the individual posts is still important. The accounts get a warning and the progressively more serious bans.

It is a bit frustrating though because I reported numerous of them for plagiarized content (copy and pasted their entire conversation on multiple unrelated threads).
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Yeah, I basically just report individual posts now, and mainly for plagiarism, repeatedly posting mining pool ads on every page of an ANN thread, and referral link spam.

I do have some good news to report though: many of the people I mentioned in the OP have been banned and the threads they were bumping have come to a screeching halt.

EvenCoin
SafeInsure
Neluns
DBX - I saw your shill alert in this one, and no surprise it went unnoticed by the bumper bots.
NEOGAME.IO
Biohal

So now it's time to go back to those threads and post a warning message in each letting them know why their sleazy tactics backfired, and the above listing will make it easy to keep tabs on them.

EDIT/UPDATE - fixed quote, also, the boomertoo and Klacik bots have fired up again; I just reported two more plagiarized posts for each.
2nd UPDATE - Added Biohal & Neogame.io to list of shilled threads.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1926
฿ear ride on the rainbow slide

Yep, your warning posts are hilarious... except for that one time I spent about 20 minutes reporting plagiarists on the first 3 pages of a thread only to see your warning on the 4th...  Grin

In this case, I ended up opening the post histories of each of the suspected bumpers in separate tabs which made it much easier to spot plagiarism between them. Supplying an additional report for plagiarism on top of the earlier submissions for duplicate posting seems to have done the trick, as 30 of my 43 unhandled reports were processed overnight. I've already learned that the only surefire ways to get an offender banned are plagiarism and referral link spam - every other rule violation, including the relentless ads that some pool operators post on every single page of a thread, seem to only get the post deleted, if that. And on that note...


I'm pleased they provide some entertainment. Sometimes it feels like I'm just talking to the bots on the thread.

Reporting the individual posts is still important. The accounts get a warning and the progressively more serious bans.

It is a bit frustrating though because I reported numerous of them for plagiarized content (copy and pasted their entire conversation on multiple unrelated threads).
The timing shows it must be bots talking to each other (who can write and post a reply in 10 seconds between posts)
This morning I see the accounts shit-posting again.
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 184
You can report the conversations when they are low quality.

I prefer to just put up a public notice like this one:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46561855

Make them fun, make them all different and make sure to be "on topic" so they violate no rules.

The other way is to look at their other conversations and report them for plagiarism which gets a permaban  Grin

...

Yep, your warning posts are hilarious... except for that one time I spent about 20 minutes reporting plagiarists on the first 3 pages of a thread only to see your warning on the 4th...  Grin

In this case, I ended up opening the post histories of each of the suspected bumpers in separate tabs which made it much easier to spot plagiarism between them. Supplying an additional report for plagiarism on top of the earlier submissions for duplicate posting seems to have done the trick, as 30 of my 43 unhandled reports were processed overnight. I've already learned that the only surefire ways to get an offender banned are plagiarism and referral link spam - every other rule violation, including the relentless ads that some pool operators post on every single page of a thread, seem to only get the post deleted, if that. And on that note...

*   *   *

You can report also Quoting Pyramids.
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You can, but in my experience this usually only results in the offending post getting deleted and that is too much work for all involved (both reporter and moderator) to be worth the bother. It's why I rarely report low value "good project" type posts unless the poster has at least 1 merit or copper membership and their entire post history is low value - but even still I recommending nuking the user rather than delete one spammy post out of millions.

*   *   *

It really depends on the individual case for me. I'll delete it if its of low content, and if its particularly a problem I'll message the users involved. If they ignore that or is unbearable I might ignore it so that a higher up member of staff can take a look at it, and decide whether its ban worthy or not. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I guess you sort of see my take on things when I receive reports like this. I get a lot of these types of reports!

I'm really glad you replied since it's always good to get some insight into how a particular mod operates. I think all of us that have made hunting for violators a minor hobby here (or an obsessive quest... like, say, iasenko...  Grin ) realize that there has to be some prioritization of the enforcement of the rules, especially for the more subjective ones like whether a post is low value or when an ad for a mining pool ad goes from being informational to spammy. Since plagiarism is an incontrovertible violation I tend to concentrate on that, but I'm seeing more duplicate posts (ie - the same user/bot posts the same reply in multiple threads) these days and getting some feedback on the priority of handling those reports would be welcome.

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1926
฿ear ride on the rainbow slide
It really depends on the individual case for me. I'll delete it if its of low content, and if its particularly a problem I'll message the users involved. If they ignore that or is unbearable I might ignore it so that a higher up member of staff can take a look at it, and decide whether its ban worthy or not. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I guess you sort of see my take on things when I receive reports like this. I get a lot of these types of reports!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4901699.1140 the whole thread deserves to be nuked. It is just an account farm bumping it with pyramid quotes.
staff
Activity: 3304
Merit: 4115
It really depends on the individual case for me. I'll delete it if its of low content, and if its particularly a problem I'll message the users involved. If they ignore that or is unbearable I might ignore it so that a higher up member of staff can take a look at it, and decide whether its ban worthy or not. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I guess you sort of see my take on things when I receive reports like this. I get a lot of these types of reports!
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 3150
₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(
You can report also Quoting Pyramids.
This is taken from the Rule  1, examples >
Quote
Examples:

1. Such posts like "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids,useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1655
Rêlêå§ê ¥ðµr MïñÐ
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1926
฿ear ride on the rainbow slide
You can report the conversations when they are low quality.

I prefer to just put up a public notice like this one:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46561855

Make them fun, make them all different and make sure to be "on topic" so they violate no rules.

The other way is to look at their other conversations and report them for plagiarism which gets a permaban  Grin



Exact same content posted in multiple threads.





To be investigated : BTCFaucets, CoinNextE, amanai, bitokman, guarino, 12coins, SamuelN, peetah, Tiny_Prism, boomertoo, kk777, Klacik.Green Lantern nicrnicr

Permaban eligible and reported = deleted


It is clearly BOT activity because try posting this fast :

Quote from: guarino on October 02, 2018, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: 12coins on October 02, 2018, 03:55:14 PM
Quote from: guarino on October 02, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
Quote from: 12coins on October 02, 2018, 03:44:39 PM



Quote from: guarino on October 02, 2018, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: 12coins on October 02, 2018, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: guarino on October 02, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
Quote from: 12coins on October 02, 2018, 03:44:51 PM


Quote from: guarino on October 02, 2018, 04:00:04 PM
Quote from: 12coins on October 02, 2018, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: guarino on October 02, 2018, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: 12coins on October 02, 2018, 03:45:03 PM

Just look at the times between posts and replies on multiple topics between the two alt accounts.







Quote from: 12coins on September 21, 2018, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: nicrnicr on September 21, 2018, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: 12coins on September 21, 2018, 12:24:41 PM
Quote from: nicrnicr on September 21, 2018, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: 12coins on September 21, 2018, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: nicrnicr on September 21, 2018, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: 12coins on September 21, 2018, 12:24:53 PM
Quote from: nicrnicr on September 21, 2018, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: 12coins on September 21, 2018, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: nicrnicr on September 21, 2018, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: 12coins on September 21, 2018, 11:41:19 AM
Quote from: nicrnicr on September 21, 2018, 11:27:43 AM


full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 184
The evidence can be quite strong but if there is no concrete proof, the line between a scripted conversation or not is very small.
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Yep, that's the primary counterargument I expected. The ATLANTICO example has more of a classic spam megathread kind of feel, but the EvenCoin and SafeInsure examples are, I feel, much more insidious in that they give the appearance of a genuine conversation occurring until you really pay attention to what is being said, e.g. from the EvenCoin thread -

Post 2662 makes a typically generic assertion found in most spam megathreads:

I like that this project promotes the ideas of a distributed economy to the masses and uses for this just the technology of blockchai. It's great to make it more massive and attract more new users.



Post 2663 then responds to that generic assertion with a generic question:

I like that this project promotes the ideas of a distributed economy to the masses and uses for this just the technology of blockchai. It's great to make it more massive and attract more new users.

And what are the advantages of this project? Can I ask you about?


Post 2664 provides generic answers to the previous generic question - I mean, what crypto doesn't "support cross-border transfers"?:

I like that this project promotes the ideas of a distributed economy to the masses and uses for this just the technology of blockchai. It's great to make it more massive and attract more new users.

And what are the advantages of this project? Can I ask you about?

Well, for example, EvenCoin will support cross-border transfers, which in itself is an excellent solution, as this will help to facilitate international trade between entrepreneurs. It's also a ready-made and complete e-commerce system, and this is based on the highly reliable method of Escrow

Etc.
copper member
Activity: 2940
Merit: 4101
Top Crypto Casino
The evidence can be quite strong but if there is no concrete proof, the line between a scripted conversation or not is very small. I mean they will always try to find any type of excuse to say no it isn't with every argument possible.
But in another side, the posts can surely be deleted for a low-quality one, which I am sure is the case
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 184
In order for a thread to maintain a position on the first page of the altcoins/announcements subforum it needs a post every 10 minutes or less, something that seems unlikely for all but the most followed projects and/or ones undergoing some controversy. For a project too small to show up on CMC, however, the more likely explanation is the use of paid bumping. Previously I found plagiarism or duplicate posting (ie - when someone writes the exact same response in several thread) to be most common, but the last few days I have noticed a new technique which appears to be a fake conversation. That is to say, two or more people seem to be having a conversation because they are asking/answering a series of questions between them, but this conversation does not seem to be authentic as it is strictly about generalities and often times doesn't even make sense.

Unfortunately, this behavior (absent plagiarism or duplicate posting) does not seem to be excluded by the (un)official rules hence I thought I'd present my evidence here and get a discussion going on how to address this going forward. Below are a few threads whose conversations seem fake and the users who appear to be involved based on posting more than two generic questions or answers to the thread:


The first two examples - EvenCoin and SafeInsure - seem to be employing the same group of people: BTCFaucets, CoinNextE, amanai, bitokman, guarino, 12coins, SamuelN, peetah, Tiny_Prism, boomertoo, kk777, Klacik.

The 3rd example - ATLANTICO - is run a little differently as it is less of a conversation and more just random postings (mostly from people on the sig campaigns for GigTricks and EraSwap): Justenjoy1903, Anya Doreen, Maryqueen Finez, HappyCaptain, imopogicute, 25espia1994, larry1994, clarise123, pogicute1234, 123pogi123, jackielim

I have already reported some of the users above for plagiarism or duplicate posting (though the latter is less clearly an infraction*) but if they haven't plagiarized or posted the same post to multiple threads I'm not sure what to do. A few months ago a similar situation occurred with the RoomDao ANN - discussed here Bumping RoomDao ICO ANN - and that thread was nuked by mprep, but some people argued that bad actors or competitors could report threads for paid bumping to get them nuked for their own benefit. I dunno about that - "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" springs to mind.


EDIT - got clarification that duplicating one's own posts is treated the same as plagiarism by hilariousandco:

I don't know about perma ban, but temp ban should be for sure. Threads for these types of posts aren't really required. One or two reports should be enough(ask the mod to check post history and explain it clearly what the guy is doing in the report paragraph).

It's a permaban. This is no different than copying someone else's post and if you do this then you have absolutely no intention of contributing here and you're 100% only doing it to farm your account and/or bleed bounties whilst putting in no effort at all. It's scumbags like these that are destroying the forum. If they're too lazy to actually make posts then don't bother.
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