Topic: How to do micro payments with bitcoin? - page 5. (Read 1320 times)

It's much cheaper just to leave it open as long as possible (channels can be left open permanently)



You don't need a Lightning channel for every person or store you send to. Money can be routed across multiple channels, so as long as the overall network is well connected, there's not much advantage to who you open a channel with. It's probably better to open channels with more neutral intermediate channel operators, they'll almost certainly try to gain some advantage from opening channels directly with big businesses (that's not going to be an easy business to be in when the barrier to entry is so low)

Where the "tyrannical users" text can be found ? 

Btc transaction accelerators not working? Hmm, I was going to suggest it right now. No they work, tu be fair only one works and that's viabtc's free transaction accelerator which is so spammed that it makes nearly impossible to include your transaction in 100 free tx list. But op if you can to do everythinf in less than a second, just send any transaction with 0.0001 btc fee and it will get confirmations by helping of viabtc. There are no other chanses if you don't use wallets with local offchain transfers.

I just dont even bother with micropayments nay more, just liqui into eth and send value that way, faster and cheap

I don't think that's what he did. He said we could increase the block size that way. He then went on to say that Bitcoin users might become increasingly tyrannical about blockchain size.


Maybe that was a flaw in Bitcoin's design. On the flip side, ASICs can exploit excess capacity, which in turn secures Bitcoin's proof-of-work.


80% of the supply has already been mined. How long are we supposed to wait? More importantly, Bitcoin is an opt-in network. Why limit yourself to Bitcoin if you are so worried about fees?

Good technology takes time. That's why Lightning and Rootstock have taken so long. But now they are coming to fruition. It's better to introduce new systems with different risk/trust models that can integrate with Bitcoin than to contentiously hard fork at this point.

Wow, that is a welcome development for the bitcoin community and users as well. great work, Wirex!

Yes if you buy a coffee each day from the same shop for a month and can spread the $30 cost over the month
as a type of surcharge on top of a $1.50 drink plus pay the fees of the hub/bank who you opened a
channel too.

What you are saying is not correct at all you have been mislead and micro payments are going to often be a few cents sent
to a web site needed to view VIP pages which i am sure we will start to see a lot of these soon.

From a development perspective LN is a hack job and from an economic perspective it could well
push fees even higher unless your doing 50 transactions a month and the hub you use has all the
right channels open and lets not forget that Hubs need to commit there transaction to the main
block-chain when doing inter bank settlements which is nothing new.

Please debate these guys if you feel that my description is incorrect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g   (Short version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfvhiqFw7A (long version, skip to 6:10 for the meat)

if the public block-chain was such a fantastic concept then how come they want to go off block now
and how did we ever mange to build scale-able system in the past (link web farms) without CPU wars for
mining or PoW and no we didn't needed to deal with 51% attacks because our systems were better than
that but yes DDOS can bring most systems down.

LN introduces a degree of centralization which I can live with but they are fudging the problem
which will create more trouble instead of dealing with the problem at the right level and breaking down
the block-chain to become a block matrix or do you think they like running out of space in blocks, only just
found out that this BC would not scale and are simply loving ripping us off in fees and some vain excuse
about running out of block space.

oh did i forget to mention "Lock-Managers" just in case the process was not far to
complicated as it is which might just give some of the current 20,000 full nodes needed
to preform seven transactions a second some real work to do for once.

I think all they have done is added another wheel to to the slot machine with a few more
buttons so when it costs you even more to play then it must all be the punters fault.

Yes I could go on a lot more but hopefully some of the developers here will start thinking
for themselves instead of being pushed along

As of Now, It is pretty much impossible to make micro transactions with bitcoins with their current transaction fees. However, We at Wirex have been working tirelessly to improve transaction speeds and costs of bitcoins within our network and have implemented SegWit for all our users.
We also have ZERO fees when transferring bitcoins from one Wirex user to another, making it possible to some degree to use bitcoins for micro-transactions .

We are also going to implement B2B (Business to Business) and B2C (Business to Customer) transactions to hopefully allow bitcoins to be used more as a medium of exchange rather then just a store of value

for more information, Please follow these links:

https://wirexapp.com/bitcoin-money-transfers

https://wirexapp.com/segwit-wallet-upgrade-lower-blockchain-fees-customers/

Nowadays it is impossible.
Do you know how much fees today? It's very big amount.
I tried btc accelerator too, not working at these days

About Xapo: He shows a behaviour similar to Brian Armstrong (Coinbase CEO). He went up on the Segwit 2x train defying the community's will to not have another fork armageddon of 2 competing versions of Bitcoin. He is also constantly delaying scaling solutions like allowing native segwit support and instead he is profiting from enabling Bitcoin Cash and racking up the transactions fees in there.

I can't trust all these big blockers, they are all dodgy and they come from the old world, they just want to make more dollars, they don't even hold that many bitcoin themselves.

With the current situation of the network and all those fee it is actually not possible to do micro transactions with bitcoin. Your best option is to switch to some other Alt coins or just wait for the lightening network which is supposed to help us do transactions instantly with very less fees.


Micro payments are low value transactions.
I understand the deal with bitfury and coinbase, but why is Xapo a scam?

Larger blocks would have to be far too large to permit micro-transactions though.


Also, Bitcoin now has larger blocks, blocks between 1.1 MB and 1.4 MB are a regular occurrence. ~ 2.1 MB is the vaunted max for current usage patterns, and Lightning will likely push that up higher (as open/close channel HTLC transactions have a higher weighting than typical transactions), within an overall 4MB maximum blockweight.

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Your arguments ignore the drawbacks of block size can-kicking: efforts must be made to mitigate the effects of the additional verification resources required for increasingly larger blocks, otherwise there will be a compromise to other aspects of Satoshi's overall mission statements. These cannot be ignored or wished away, Satoshi wanted a decentralised network and p2p cash-style transactions.

Segwit's solution for non-linear sig-hashing was the beginning, but future innovations to improve the performance of block verification and propagation (e.g. MAST and signature aggregation) will be needed in order to ensure safe increases of the block-weight limit. Scaling-up blockchain tech actually involves changing the performance of the Bitcoin network at larger scales, not just "making everything bigger". That's not scaling.

  Before doing micro payments first we have to know what is micro payment and how it works.Micro payment is a financial transaction involving a very small sum of money done online. At present micro payment is not applicable in bitcoin because of the fee structure of micro payments will double the actual cost so this type of payment is impossible.There is some alternatives for micro payment something like xapo .There are also lightning Network to solve this problem many are waiting for the lightning network.

Normally the price should go up !

For micro payments you should use Stellar Lumens, they have the lowest transaction fee.

Micro transactions are not possible on the current transaction fee. It should be considered as a myth . On chain transactions can never be made to do micro payments since the fee itself would be more than the  micro payment.Nobody would want to spend double than the actual cost.
The Lightning Network is being made to solve this problem. It has been tested successfully now and will be implemented on the network very soon this year. Many people including are waiting for the moment for the establishment of the Lightning Network. Don't know what's gonna happen Bitcoin's price when the moment arises.

This really isn't possible currently due to the minimum fee being around ~$20. Personally I'd recommend using BCH (Bitcoin Cash) as you can still get low fees there.

As far as I can tell, Satoshi never intended the current situation to happen. Back in 2010, he already suggested to phase in bigger blocks again, but this never happened.
When Satoshi created Bitcoin, there was no difference between nodes and miners: before asics took over, all nodes could mine. Miners currently earn around $30 million per day from block rewards and fees. I can only imagine how decentralized Bitcoin would be if millions of users could all run mining nodes on their own home computer, and all earn a few dollars per day from this.

All true, but none of these forks would have happened if Bitcoin would have allowed more transactions years ago, long before it became a problem, and long before any miner would reject an update to Bitcoin Core that makes this possible.

I really hope so.

It's a very complicated solution that needs time we don't have. Larger blocks could have offered temporary relief for the network. Instead, we got RBF and CPFP to pay more for a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

I don't like Bitcoin Cash and especially the manipulation from the guys behind it, but I can't deny it works just fine to send a transaction.

I don’t about micro payments but can you help me to explain something about micro payments that can help me in knowing more to this? Thank you for the response

The BCash guys are literally hanging on with their finger tips. They know the Lightning Network and SegWit will eventually render BCash obsolete, but they are using this temporary advantage in their favour, to push BCash adoption and to attack Bitcoin's current scaling problems.

BCash will soon join Bitcoin Unlimited in being a failed attempt to take Bitcoin down. This was a stronger attempt, but Bitcoin is known for coming back in the last rounds. ^smile^

Cheap micro payments with Bitcoin has been done on the Main Net, but it is still early days for this technology.