How to do micro payments with bitcoin? - page 6.

Samarkand

sr. member

Activity: 658

Merit: 282

Quote from: squatter on January 10, 2018, 05:40:56 PM

... And that's why Bcash will probably fail: when the block subsidy drops to zero, so will mining outpute, because fee income won't replace subsidy income.

I´d speculate that it will fail much earlier. Their blocks are still literally empty most of the time and if
the prominent backers of Bitcoin Cash will someday switch their support to a different project
(remember, some of them were also involved in earlier ventures like Bitcoin Unlimited and so on), the
project will fade away or become one of these "ghost blockchains".

I agree on the general importance of a competitive fee market in order to incentivize miners to secure
the network when the block reward becomes negligible.

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: collapse on January 10, 2018, 01:34:16 PM

I can remember the days of totally free transactions.
Bitcoin (2009-2017✝) was intended for cheap transactions and micro-payments (P2P cash), you need something similar.

"I don't think the threshold should ever be 0. We should always allow at least some free transactions." Satoshi Nakamoto.

I can sympathize with Satoshi's sentiment there, but he didn't build incentives for that into Bitcoin's design. The system relies on rational mining incentive: miners publish transactions because they are incentivized to mine for block rewards and collect the fees.

And for years, miners largely enforced node policy that reserved some space for "priority" transactions, including old coins sent with no fees. But miners are rational. When fee income became significant, they removed that node policy and started maximizing the fees they collect.

It's the mining incentive -- and therefore the protocol itself -- which resulted in this situation. This is the only way the system can guarantee block rewards in the future, once most of the 21 million coin supply is mined. And that's why Bcash will probably fail: when the block subsidy drops to zero, so will mining output, because fee income won't replace subsidy income.

collapse

full member

Activity: 206

Merit: 102

step forward

I can remember the days of totally free transactions.
Bitcoin (2009-2017✝) was intended for cheap transactions and micro-payments (P2P cash), you need something similar.

"I don't think the threshold should ever be 0. We should always allow at least some free transactions." Satoshi Nakamoto.

cellard

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1252

Quote from: Kprawn on January 10, 2018, 10:31:45 AM

OK, you want the micro tx's to be verified on the Blockchain and that is physically impossible with Bitcoin at the moment. The

best alternative would be to use something like Xapo with off-chain tx's {instant & free} and then withdraw that with one tx

onto the Blockchain. {high fees come into play again} At least with this method, you would be doing micro payment and the

balance will be reflected on the Blockchain. Wink

Xapo is a scam, don't use it at all, Bitfury and Coinbase and co are also not to be trusted, they are behind the BCash agenda.

If you really want to transact offchain then LN was designed for that, the problem is to fund the channel you still need an on-chain transaction, and once you use all the funds, you need to recharge it again, and typically you don't want to have big amounts out of your cold storage... fees need to go down on-chain. Segwit, MAST, Schnorr.. could make fees go down a lot, but that is a slow process, and some people are paranoid about segwit's safety.

Whatever the outcome, BCash is not the solution.

Kprawn

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1074

OK, you want the micro tx's to be verified on the Blockchain and that is physically impossible with Bitcoin at the moment. The

best alternative would be to use something like Xapo with off-chain tx's {instant & free} and then withdraw that with one tx

onto the Blockchain. {high fees come into play again} At least with this method, you would be doing micro payment and the

balance will be reflected on the Blockchain. Wink

Colorblind

member

Activity: 392

Merit: 41

This text is irrelevant

Today it is impossible to make micro transactions without using off-chain services. In future LN supposed to bring bitcoin micro tx in fast, trustless and decentralized manner.

crypt0heaven

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: bitspectacle on January 10, 2018, 01:13:27 AM

How to do micro payments with bitcoin? The transactions need to be verified on the blockchain, but need to minimize the fees.

Lightening network takes care of that. This is how you will do micropayments or anything under 100$ with basically no fee.

Here is LN wallet, check it out https://htlc.me/

Turkish88

full member

Activity: 714

Merit: 104

Transactions in bitcoin network paid according to capacity in Kb, this conception cant give you opportunity to make micro transaction for now.
One way to decrease tx fee sending btc from one big input

13abyknight

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 252

As of right now, micro payments are almost impossible to make because of high transaction fee situation caused due to network congestion. The fees you pay for the transaction would overshadow the actual amount being sent making it useless to do so.

Then again, as LoyceV said above, Lightning Network would be the optimal solution for this problem but we just need to wait for it to go live so we can start making using of it.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

At current fees, you can forget about micro payments. Even if you manage to send a payment at low fee to many addresses, those addresses can't use the Bitcoin dust, as it would require a higher fee than it's worth.
Lightning Network is supposed to solve all this in the future, I just hope it won't take too long.

bitspectacle

newbie

Activity: 22

Merit: 1

How to do micro payments with bitcoin? The transactions need to be verified on the blockchain, but need to minimize the fees.

Topic: How to do micro payments with bitcoin? - page 6. (Read 1343 times)