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Topic: How to fix bitcoin (Read 10319 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1011
April 10, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
#92
Bitcoin is not tailored for anyone, but nor does it discriminate for anyone either.  That alone means that Bitcoin is a more favorable monetary system for third world nations than anything that the UN or the US has presented them with thus far.

Don't you need computer/internet access to make use of Bitcoin? I'd say that rules out a lot of people, especially in third-world countries.


Unless you are actively generating, then an end user only needs occasional access to the internet.  Or to be precise, occasional access to another client with greater access to other clients.  An end user doesn't need live access to the Internet to spend his already confirmed coins.  At present, only the receiver needs live access to the Bitcoin network in any given trade, so long as the two parties' devices have some digital method of communicating otherwise, (i.e. Dash7, Near-field or ad-hoc wifi) and only if he has need for independent confirmation that a valid transaction has just occurred.  IRL, the vast majority of cash in person transactions do not need this level of certainty to happen as it is today.  There is no reason that, in a Bitcoin future, an established shop in Africa couldn't accept a transaction produced by a walk-in customer's smartphone based only upon checking it against his local copy of the blockchain to make certain that said customer owned said coins the last time he updated his blockchain.  The double spend attack is technically difficult on many levels, so unless it were to start to become a common form of fraud in the distant trading posts, a blockchain a day out of date is unlikely to be a problem for the purchase of a coke and a candy bar.  In a future where only 3% of the population uses Bitcoin once or more a week (which would be a dramatic success) a continuous digital broadcast of the blockchain, via sat downlink or shortwave data undercarrier methods (i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale) is downright likely in places where Internet access is rare or insufficient, and not out of the question even in North America.  Imagine if XM radio were to commit one channel to a continuous feed of the blockchain.

Even that level of Bitcoin infrastructure might not be necessary if Dash7 radios were to become as common as wifi radios on smartphones, because of the nature of Dash7, an aware Bitcoin client could (and therefore would) mesh with most of the other Dash7 devices within a max kilometer radius, trading blocks and transactions in an open and dynamic network.  A network dynamic enough that nodes move around a cityscape throughout the course of a day, constantly trading said packets whenever more recent data is discovered.  I don't know if you're a radio geek like myself, but to a radio geek, the opprotunistic mesh network that has an average node range of over half a klick, and the potential for wide and deep node penetration, is a surreal concept.  If only 2% of cell phone users in NYC had Dash7 phones, and kept them on all day, there would literally be no place within the city that was beyond the reach of a signal; excepting (maybe) the sewer system and a closed bank vault.  One would literally have to be standing in a faraday cage to not be able to see at least one other Dash7 node with an average radius of half a click, and there is great likelyhood that a well made Dash7 node would do far better than half a klick.  Network saturation is a different issue, of course; since Dash7 is limited to about 200kbps sustained transfer rate.
ffe
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
April 10, 2011, 04:50:09 PM
#91
Pool mining. Something to add to every client?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 252
youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin
April 10, 2011, 03:52:05 PM
#90
The big mistake I see is the $40-50 "lottery" payout methodology...
Which is aimed at Bot Nets and Western geeks.

Answer: pooled mining.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 273
April 10, 2011, 03:51:42 PM
#89
Yup, the whole world will basically come online within the next two decades.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
April 10, 2011, 11:26:17 AM
#88
Thanks Gavin, that's both interesting and surprising.

I wonder what kind of handsets those 65% of Africans have at the moment?

I'm sure the smartphones will trickle through eventually as you suggest.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 2316
Chief Scientist
April 10, 2011, 11:23:02 AM
#87
Don't you need computer/internet access to make use of Bitcoin? I'd say that rules out a lot of people, especially in third-world countries.

In 2009:
Quote
over 65 percent of the African population had access to mobile phone service, with. 93 percent covered in North Africa and 60 percent in sub-Saharan Africa
  Source
All mobile phones will be internet-enabled in 10 years, and I think it is pretty safe to assume that most people on the planet will have some access.  It won't surprise me if bitcoin first goes mainstream in an up-and-coming third-world country or region.

full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
April 10, 2011, 09:17:16 AM
#86
Bitcoin is not tailored for anyone, but nor does it discriminate for anyone either.  That alone means that Bitcoin is a more favorable monetary system for third world nations than anything that the UN or the US has presented them with thus far.

Don't you need computer/internet access to make use of Bitcoin? I'd say that rules out a lot of people, especially in third-world countries.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
April 10, 2011, 09:09:53 AM
#85
electricity has very little to do with bitcoin in the long run, if not now.  from talking to a few early participants it has already become almost impossible to generate bitcoins with the average persons home computer from a probabilistic standpoint.  therefore, the average person will have to buy bitcoins in the future.  how does the person w/o a computer or smartphone do this?  especially if one is unfortunate enough to be homeless?  i could see an evolution to paper bitcoins.  this would be a 2 edged sword however.  while it would put money into the hands of the non tech community, it would also lead to a decrease in the bitcoin money supply.  this is a problem as things would become even less expensive as the bitcoin value soars.  bitcoin ppl would love it but everyone else would hate it.  whats interesting is, the more one thinks about starting a new currency, the more one becomes to sympathize (just a bit) with the existing money manipulators.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1011
April 09, 2011, 11:37:25 PM
#84
This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.


Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.


That is the general idea.

The viral, exponential growth is Bottom Up... not Top Down...
Like YouTube, not Hollywood...
What happens with BitCoin in Russia >>> more important than USA...
Another tool for tipping fat bloggers is not revolutionary.

You guys know this...
But electricity is cheapest by far in the Americas...
I'm still trying to discover/understand features tailored for Third World.

Bitcoin is not tailored for anyone, but nor does it discriminate for anyone either.  That alone means that Bitcoin is a more favorable monetary system for third world nations than anything that the UN or the US has presented them with thus far.  Your claim about electricity is false, as there are forum members who have reported very low power costs in Russia, Iceland and elsewhere.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
April 09, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
#83
This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.


Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.


That is the general idea.

The viral, exponential growth is Bottom Up... not Top Down...
Like YouTube, not Hollywood...
What happens with BitCoin in Russia >>> more important than USA...
Another tool for tipping fat bloggers is not revolutionary.

You guys know this...
But electricity is cheapest by far in the Americas...
I'm still trying to discover/understand features tailored for Third World.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1011
April 09, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
#82
This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.


Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.


That is the general idea.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
April 09, 2011, 06:39:47 PM
#81
This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.

$5,875,000 may sound nice and be "exponential"...
But it's a "small, disappointing Christmas bonus" on Wall Street.

The big mistake I see is the $40-50 "lottery" payout methodology...
Which is aimed at Bot Nets and Western geeks.

Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.

Get every Third World bazaar to use BitCoins...
And it becomes an existential threat to all Governments.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 252
youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin
April 09, 2011, 06:12:55 PM
#80
None but if the pegger ever decides to close shop and walk away the economy will collapse and the loans will collapse.  Watch the 2 Bill Still videos I recommended.

There is no pegger.  Please read the bitcoin faq.
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
April 09, 2011, 04:08:57 PM
#79
There might be a good reason for someone to control the currency.  BTC has a built in transaction cost mechanism also all the USD/BTC exchanges seem to have a fee involved.  It is in their best interest for these guys to maintain a peg to bitcoin in USD.  Something to think about.  Thus they profit on all transactions.  If I was megawealthy.  I would try to peg bitcoin to a certain amount maybe 1/100th ounce of silver, then run an exchange service.  Just callme JP Morgan or Rothschild.

So, how would this relate to the actual costs involved in operating the Bitcoin network?

None but if the pegger ever decides to close shop and walk away the economy will collapse and the loans will collapse.  Watch the 2 Bill Still videos I recommended.
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
April 09, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
#78
There might be a good reason for someone to control the currency.  BTC has a built in transaction cost mechanism also all the USD/BTC exchanges seem to have a fee involved.  It is in their best interest for these guys to maintain a peg to bitcoin in USD.  Something to think about.  Thus they profit on all transactions.  If I was megawealthy.  I would try to peg bitcoin to a certain amount maybe 1/100th ounce of silver, then run an exchange service.  Just callme JP Morgan or Rothschild.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 11
April 09, 2011, 10:27:22 AM
#77
Which necessitates a discussion about what exactly is broken and needs fixing.
I am unable to inflate the bitcoin supply for fun and profit. it's obviously broken Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 252
April 09, 2011, 10:02:37 AM
#76
This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.

Which necessitates a discussion about what exactly is broken and needs fixing.

I still have not seen a convincing argument that Bitcoin is biased toward early adopters in negative way.

edit... Nor does Bitcoin require "backing" by any metal, in my opinion.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1002
April 09, 2011, 02:23:37 AM
#75
This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
April 09, 2011, 01:55:07 AM
#74
I recall reading(and I Wish I had the link) somewhere that HFT has issues; market makers are paided for each trade that they put through, and that they have designed strategies where, they will buy the ask and sell straight to the bid. They can do this because they have faster access to the exchange than less privileged players in the market.  So in that scenerio it may appear the make a profit simply for intercepting the trade..... Do that multiple times a day.....

There were two other strategies that were used, and in no way helped price the stock, merely took away from other participants in the market.
iya
member
Activity: 81
Merit: 10
April 09, 2011, 12:42:10 AM
#73
Are you implying that HFT is a problem?
Every trader who can turn a profit makes the market more efficient. Of course they push the price up and down, but the new price will better reflect reality, i.e. current and future supply and demand.

You can clearly see this in an illiquid market like Bitcoin: every large order creates huge market movements.
If these were anticipated by speculators, volatility would be reduced.
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