How to keep safe the mnemonic phrase - Whats Your method? - page 2.

MusaMohamed

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Quote from: fillippone on September 28, 2023, 05:06:08 PM

"What was it? Changing 3rd and 4th or it was 4th an 5th? "
"Oh no, both are invalid!"
"Maybe it was the 7th and 9th word!? No, empty wallet as well"
"Yeah, now I do remember! I decided to change one word with the preceding one! Or was it changing the second word with a word 2 down in the list? Was it 2 up?

TL,DR: Don't be your worst enemy. KISS principle is the way.

Stay simple and stay safe.

Bitcoin Q&A: Why is Seed Splitting a Bad Idea?

Splitting seed words or trying to encode it in creative ways will make recovery process more complicated and more risky to fail. Because after one or two additional encoding chains in the process, if you need to recover your wallet from encoded backups, you will have to decrypt it.

Many risks will cause the decrypting process fails that will make the wallet recovery process becomes a nightmare and failure is unavoidable.

fillippone

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Quote from: Minecache on September 28, 2023, 06:11:10 AM

If you write the seed phrase in a special book and are afraid other people can access it, you can use tricks like changing 1 or 2 positions of the words.

"What was it? Changing 3rd and 4th or it was 4th an 5th? "
"Oh no, both are invalid!"
"Maybe it was the 7th and 9th word!? No, empty wallet as well"
"Yeah, now I do remember! I decided to change one word with the preceding one! Or was it changing the second word with a word 2 down in the list? Was it 2 up?

TL,DR: Don't be your worst enemy. KISS principle is the way.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Hyphen(-) on September 28, 2023, 01:16:51 PM

Using washers to save your seed phrase is also good, but it is a bit expensive. The full details and explanation were done by Fillippone in this thread. I think it is secure and more easier to handle than paper, but the process is expensive.

There are ready made kits for that where you use a titanium plate instead of washers. Check out Stamp Seed. The whole set costs $120 which is less than a hardware wallet.
It's not really an expensive option for people who own bitcoin. Truth is, if you have a few thousand dollars in bitcoin you don't need any fancy backups. Just remember the password to your wallet and backup the whole file. If someone steals it they still won't be able to access your money and the password remains safe in your head.

CryptoHeadlineNews

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Quote from: coinfunda on September 24, 2023, 07:04:41 AM

->Writing and keeping it with you/your place: What if someone got the access in your absence of theft or any disaster?

-> Obviously keep it online in email of any other way is risking your funds.

What your way?

Writing down our seed phrase on a piece of paper is actually the primary method I'm sure all newbie must have been thought when they got into Bitcoin newly. So in regards to the question you just ask, I will love to say that the best way to keep our seed phrase safe is by writing it in either ascending order or descending order (i.e in whichever way you may want to) without any incryption such as;
1. My Trust Wallet Seed Phrase
2. Electrum Seed Phrase
3. Ledger Nano X Private key, e.t.c,
Because one big mistake many people make is writing down the name of the wallet that the seed phrase becomes to, and as such making it very easy for anybody to have access to your fund automatically. But if we can write just only the 11 Seed phrase without a clue which wallet it becomes to, it will be very hard for anyone to have access to it very quickly.

Hyphen(-)

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Quote from: Minecache on September 28, 2023, 06:11:10 AM

If you write the seed phrase in a special book and are afraid other people can access it, you can use tricks like changing 1 or 2 positions of the words. That way, even if someone steals your phrase, they can't access your wallet. (You just need to change the position of the two words, no need to change too much to confuse yourself).

Yes, exactly. Duplicating the papers is also advisable so that when you lose one, you will have one as an alternative, and also using some words to trick it in such a way that you will be the only one to interpret it and to avoid stealing your coins, or just as you said, you should interchange the words in a way you can only understand.

Quote

Also, I think we should have a better storage device than paper because paper is very perishable, as you said. Small sized steel plates as mentioned by Crypt0Gore are a better solution than paper.

Using washers to save your seed phrase is also good, but it is a bit expensive. The full details and explanation were done by Fillippone in this thread. I think it is secure and more easier to handle than paper, but the process is expensive.

jaberwock

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Quote from: Agbe on September 26, 2023, 08:55:31 AM

There are different ways your mnemonic seed phrase can be kept. You can see these ones to know more how to secure your seed phrase even in the time of fire outbreak, earthquake, hurricane, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinplate-steel-seed-phrase-saver-5404433, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/securing-your-seed-phrase-with-washers-5389446 you can read those threads to see the ways seed phrase is secured.

When you have like a flood coming into your area then stainless steel means nothing at all. This is exactly why I always supported the idea of hiding it somewhere else, like a far far away place. That's usually not that simple for many people but I do have relatives living in other cities so I just put a piece of paper in their library, and have it in 4 different places today, and they are all old so they wouldn't have remotely any idea what they could do with it neither, so it is not really an issue.

I believe that we are going to end up with something that would be good or not, it is going to end up with being something that would be a little bit tougher on the end and should not be something that could be risky.

UchihaSarada

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Quote from: Minecache on September 28, 2023, 06:11:10 AM

If you write the seed phrase in a special book and are afraid other people can access it, you can use tricks like changing 1 or 2 positions of the words. That way, even if someone steals your phrase, they can't access your wallet. (You just need to change the position of the two words, no need to change too much to confuse yourself).

Backup your wallet seed as most simplest as possible but make sure you store your backup safely and avoid eyes of other people.

Don't try to trick others and consequently trap yourself with a risky backup method. Changing positions of 1, 2 or 3 words in your wallet seed is a terrible idea. You will need to remember it, need to have a note for these positions but if you lose those position order by a memory loss, note loss, you will need luckiness to recover your wallet seed.

How to back up a seed phrase

Minecache

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Quote from: Hyphen(-) on September 28, 2023, 03:31:41 AM

Quote from: D ltr on September 28, 2023, 01:36:09 AM

I don't want to make things difficult for myself, I save my seeds in 1 flash disk and 1 special book because I'm the type of person who is forgetful so I think a flash disk in a book is the right place to store my seeds.

I don't trust flash drives, hard drives, or any external storage device of that nature because they can get damaged and the files inside will corrupt, including your seed phrase and other valuable documents you saved in there, but saving in a flash will be a bit better than leaving it online in an email or so because anything connected to the internet is very risky and can easily get hacked.

Writing your seed phrase down in a special book is more secure and preferable than using an external flash drive because it will be there and will not corrupt, but if someone has access to it, your coin is gone, because unlike flash drives, you cannot put a password in a book unless you use some encrypted words that only you can interpret, and you can also duplicate the papers because of natural disasters like fire outbreaks, water, and so on.

If you write the seed phrase in a special book and are afraid other people can access it, you can use tricks like changing 1 or 2 positions of the words. That way, even if someone steals your phrase, they can't access your wallet. (You just need to change the position of the two words, no need to change too much to confuse yourself).

Also, I think we should have a better storage device than paper because paper is very perishable, as you said. Small sized steel plates as mentioned by Crypt0Gore are a better solution than paper.

Crypt0Gore

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The first thing is to make sure that you don't attract people by either telling them that you are holding large amount of crypto assets or showing off at the wrong place, people knows what to steal from you when they have vital.informtions about you.

Keep your head down, recovery seed can remain save if written down in a book, apart from natural disasters, many won't come looking because you don't look like someone who have investments in crypto.

I have been doing this for so many years already and it's always there, in my wardrobe, but because of natural disasters I crafted a steel in the shape of an ATM card size, like Credut card and carve the recovery words one by one on the steel using a sharp object and I keep this in a separate location, but both inside my room.

The best thing is to keep your crypto investment a secret to yourself, and don't take them around in your pocket because you can easily lose them this way, such things are safer in your house or your private space, either a room or whatever.

Hyphen(-)

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Quote from: D ltr on September 28, 2023, 01:36:09 AM

I don't want to make things difficult for myself, I save my seeds in 1 flash disk and 1 special book because I'm the type of person who is forgetful so I think a flash disk in a book is the right place to store my seeds.

I don't trust flash drives, hard drives, or any external storage device of that nature because they can get damaged and the files inside will corrupt, including your seed phrase and other valuable documents you saved in there, but saving in a flash will be a bit better than leaving it online in an email or so because anything connected to the internet is very risky and can easily get hacked.

Writing your seed phrase down in a special book is more secure and preferable than using an external flash drive because it will be there and will not corrupt, but if someone has access to it, your coin is gone, because unlike flash drives, you cannot put a password in a book unless you use some encrypted words that only you can interpret, and you can also duplicate the papers because of natural disasters like fire outbreaks, water, and so on.

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Quote from: D ltr on September 28, 2023, 01:36:09 AM

I don't want to make things difficult for myself, I save my seeds in 1 flash disk and 1 special book because I'm the type of person who is forgetful so I think a flash disk in a book is the right place to store my seeds.

So, have you ever thought about your flash drive being damaged because electronic devices are very susceptible to unexpected damage, even if you preserve them very carefully? And the fact that you only have 1 copy saved in the notebook and no other backups, have you also thought about losing it or other problems?

You should have 2 or 3 backups stored in different places, that will give more assurance to your seed phrase. Furthermore, you can also share it with your closest loved ones, don't let those bitcoins disappear with you without a relative to inherit if you encounter unexpected problems.

D ltr

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I don't want to make things difficult for myself, I save my seeds in 1 flash disk and 1 special book because I'm the type of person who is forgetful so I think a flash disk in a book is the right place to store my seeds.

Kelvinid

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Quote from: coinfunda on September 24, 2023, 07:04:41 AM

fellow members,

As we all know keeping mnemonic phrase in a secure place is the first step of bitcoin journey. But there are few thing that comes in my mind:

->Writing and keeping it with you/your place: What if someone got the access in your absence of theft or any disaster?
-> Obviously keep it online in email of any other way is risking your funds.

What can be the best possible way, My favorite method is to using a metal keycard where I marked the phrase buy again it can be stolen Sad

What your way?

I simply wrote on a piece of paper, I'd keep it like nobody cared it was important as I put it in a place that is far from valuable items just to look like it was useless. I don't think it was the right idea to keep safe from disaster but that seems to be working for theft as they never suspected it.
But for me, no matter what we have to do when our wallet is used online, that is still possible to get hacked and steal our funds. We can't find 100% safe assurance, but at least we do something not easy for these thefts.

Sanitough

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Quote from: Potato Chips on September 24, 2023, 07:57:50 AM

Quote from: coinfunda on September 24, 2023, 07:04:41 AM

fellow members,

As we all know keeping mnemonic phrase in a secure place is the first step of bitcoin journey. But there are few thing that comes in my mind:

->Writing and keeping it with you/your place: What if someone got the access in your absence of theft or any disaster?

One way to minimize physical theft is to try to keep your financials as lowkey as possible, most especially, crypto. For instance, don't flaunt on social media or to your IRL peers.

In case of cryptos, burglars typically don't assume you have it and they usually go for the general stuff like cash, gadgets, etc. That is why I'm convinced a lot of physical attacks to crypto users are targeted, which means perps got a hold of their victims activities/information first.

Yes. Physical theft is only encouraged if you are giving them the possible hints. So if you chose to live lowkey and live in private, I guess physical theft will be minimized. However, on part of your cryptos, if you want to protect your seed phrase from being stolen, then never save it online but chose offline. Store it in a secret place that you're the only knows that it exist. And I don't think thieves will run for a single piece of paper than those cash and jewelries that are displayed on your house.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: oktana on September 26, 2023, 06:54:08 PM

In the quest to figure out the most suitable option, NEVER store them online. Everything online has a backend and you have no clue what goes on there.

Quote from: coinfunda on September 24, 2023, 07:04:41 AM

What can be the best possible way, My favorite method is to using a metal keycard where I marked the phrase buy again it can be stolen Sad

Someone can steal it only if you let them, I mean... Have you considered having up to 2 or even 3 metal keycards? Split your words across them and store them in different places (not in the same house). But then, what if 1 piece gets stolen and you do not have the complete words anymore? The solution is that you can get double of each piece (during creation) hence if one piece were to be stolen or misplaced, you can have its duplicate in another location.

Im not really that confident on trying out to store up those metal plates on different houses or location unless if we do talk about on the same location literally on our house which it could be placed on different corners then it would be ideal but i do still able to see the risks on losing some parts which would really be bringing up some problems later on.Keeping it online is never been recommendable on which same as you said that we cant really be assuring on there's no happening in back end on which it could really be easily be accessed if they wanted to do so and this is something that wont really be a safe place since from the start.

I have already doubts on keeping my coins too on HW like Trezor or Ledger. We've seen some those breaches or leaks or exploits.
Doesnt matter on how reputable they are but still wont really be that enough for us to tell or say that they are 100% safe and secure.

oktana

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In the quest to figure out the most suitable option, NEVER store them online. Everything online has a backend and you have no clue what goes on there.

Quote from: coinfunda on September 24, 2023, 07:04:41 AM

What can be the best possible way, My favorite method is to using a metal keycard where I marked the phrase buy again it can be stolen Sad

Someone can steal it only if you let them, I mean... Have you considered having up to 2 or even 3 metal keycards? Split your words across them and store them in different places (not in the same house). But then, what if 1 piece gets stolen and you do not have the complete words anymore? The solution is that you can get double of each piece (during creation) hence if one piece were to be stolen or misplaced, you can have its duplicate in another location.

Agbe

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There are different ways your mnemonic seed phrase can be kept. You can see these ones to know more how to secure your seed phrase even in the time of fire outbreak, earthquake, hurricane, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinplate-steel-seed-phrase-saver-5404433, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/securing-your-seed-phrase-with-washers-5389446 you can read those threads to see the ways seed phrase is secured.

_BlackStar

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The simple thing is to save your phrases offline regardless of any method you can. It is never recommended that you do anything out of the ordinary when it comes to securing your phrases - that would obviously be very risky if you had problems with them.

Apart from saving it offline - another best advice is to make several copies of the phrase. It is certainly advisable that you have a copy in case the phrases you have saved somewhere unexpectedly get lost for one reason or another. Then from that - don't save all your bitcoin in one wallet, that means having several different wallets if your amount of bitcoin is quite large.

Z-tight

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Quote from: retreat on September 25, 2023, 11:38:44 PM

I already know that. I don't fully believe in centralized exchanges and therefore I only put my money on the most reputable exchanges and the value of my assets is also not much.

It is your keys, and you can store it however you like, but take note that no exchange is too big to fail, not even the ones you call reputable, most of them operate through fractional reserve scam, so even if they don't get hacked, your funds can still be lost if their investment, gambling or trade fails.

Quote from: retreat on September 25, 2023, 11:38:44 PM

And also the seed phrase that I put on Box.com was pre-encrypted in text form, so if someone could crack it I think he would need a quantum computer for that.

It is not recommended to store your seed phrase online or in any cloud service, even if it is encrypted. You may think your encryption is strong enough, but you do not know how sophisticated the attacker could be to compromise your seed phrase.

Quote from: retreat on September 25, 2023, 11:38:44 PM

My answer is clear enough. So I don't need to explain any more.

Yeah, i read this too. Your keys, your coins, and you can store it however you wish.

sokani

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Quote from: coinfunda on September 24, 2023, 07:04:41 AM

What can be the best possible way, My favorite method is to using a metal keycard where I marked the phrase buy again it can be stolen Sad

What your way?

The safest method is to write down your seed phrase on a piece of paper or metallic steel plate and keep it in multiple locations, so that if you lost your hardware wallet, phone or laptop to theft or natural disaster, you can still recover your asset.

Quote from: Potato Chips on September 24, 2023, 07:57:50 AM

One way to minimize physical theft is to try to keep your financials as lowkey as possible, most especially, crypto. For instance, don't flaunt on social media or to your IRL peers.

A guy got robbed at his home after he was bragging about his crypto wealth while drinking in a bar with his friends. They robbers came well prepared with their crypto wallet for him to transfer all his assets. He was lucky they didn't kill him because he didn't have up to the amount he claimed he had. We should learn to be very discreet with our investment to avoid attracting unnecessary attention to ourselves.

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