How to make merchants aware of Bitcoins advantages?

Andrew Vorobyov

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Quote from: N12 on March 23, 2012, 11:22:48 AM

1. Urging people to accept Bitcoin to make their value rise sounds like a pump and dump scheme.
2. The typical merchants and charities don’t do shit, noone would use Bitcoins with them instead of fiat. They also just cash out Bitcoins for Dollars, so that actually brings down the price.

Again, the only thing that really helps is to have applications which cannot exist without Bitcoin.

+1

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: rjk on March 23, 2012, 11:05:19 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 23, 2012, 05:27:11 PM

You likely can increase adoption by explaining to them how they can do everything right and then still have their funds seized by Mt.Gox for totally undefined "suspicious activity" which is completely impossible for them to prevent.

Are you just being a wise ass or are you serious? You don’t think we should be attempting to increase awareness because MtGox sucks?

Going along with my previous statement regarding fees, you could push Bit-Pay, which hasn't really had such issues and is business oriented. To avoid bringing new business converts too far outside their comfort zone by eliminating the fee completely, you could show them that there is a way to do it for a reduced fee, which in some cases may be substantially reduced (compare with credit cards for instance), but not gone.

Although I have not experienced Bit-Pay from a business owner's perspective, I'd bet that they would have less of a support backlog and noob agents problem compared to MtGox. MtGox's merchant solution is cheap, but a business owner wants to get answers right away if there is possibly a problem, and I don't know that I would want to rely on MtGox for that. In addition, MtGox's merchant solution was recently bolted on to the back of their exchange API, and Bit-Pay have been doing only a merchant solution since their inception.

+1

That last sentence, for me, sums it all up.

Merchant: So tell me, Mr. Gox, how you got into providing merchant solutions.
Mt Gox: Funny story, but all it started when I was trading these Magic: The Gathering cards...

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

My comment was more a warning. Bitcoin is 0.x for a reason. I don't want to discourage adoption but there are significant challenges and not all of them technical. A major business having coins frozen would be a PR disaster for Bitcoin it would undermine all the claims we make. The reality is not all businesses are ready for Bitcoin because Bitcoin isn't ready for all businesses. I think a slow increase in adoption in terms of users, merchants, software, etc is the best path.

In time I think any challenge can be resolved. It likely will require a lawsuit when certain exchange freezes the wrong account and a six or seven figure settlement but it will be resolved.

Sorry for the semi-derail. Just been a hard day with some wanting to force miners to include tx and exchanges up to the iodiocy of freezing accounts based on secret lists. Angry

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 23, 2012, 05:27:11 PM

You likely can increase adoption by explaining to them how they can do everything right and then still have their funds seized by Mt.Gox for totally undefined "suspicious activity" which is completely impossible for them to prevent.

Are you just being a wise ass or are you serious? You don’t think we should be attempting to increase awareness because MtGox sucks?

Going along with my previous statement regarding fees, you could push Bit-Pay, which hasn't really had such issues and is business oriented. To avoid bringing new business converts too far outside their comfort zone by eliminating the fee completely, you could show them that there is a way to do it for a reduced fee, which in some cases may be substantially reduced (compare with credit cards for instance), but not gone.

Although I have not experienced Bit-Pay from a business owner's perspective, I'd bet that they would have less of a support backlog and noob agents problem compared to MtGox. MtGox's merchant solution is cheap, but a business owner wants to get answers right away if there is possibly a problem, and I don't know that I would want to rely on MtGox for that. In addition, MtGox's merchant solution was recently bolted on to the back of their exchange API, and Bit-Pay have been doing only a merchant solution since their inception.

check_status

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Quote from: wareen on March 23, 2012, 04:42:47 PM

Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 11:38:17 AM

Maybe there's a pr/marketing person on the boards who can help with advice about emails like this.

Everybody considering to push Bitcoin like this, please follow this advice from evorhees:

Quote from: evorhees

Rule number one of your first email to someone in business (who you don't know) is that it can't be more than 4 or 5 sentences. This means, you should basically just say something like, "Hey are you guys planning to accept Bitcoin as a payment option soon? "

Then if they respond with the question "WTF is that?" then you can write a couple short paragraphs of what it is, and why they as a merchant might like it.

Then if there is a second response from them, it means they're clearly interested and you can provide some links, more comprehensive info.

Especially for your first mail, less is definitely more! Starting with an essay about Bitcoin's advantages, no matter how witty and thoughtful, will probably not get you very far.

This makes sense from the Merchants perspective who may be receiving 100's to 1000's of emails a day. With the "Less is More" approach you may increase your chances of the Merchant being receptive. It is better than where too much information may become classified as SPAM in the mind of the Merchant.
Thanks

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

You likely can increase adoption by explaining to them how they can do everything right and then still have their funds seized by Mt.Gox for totally undefined "suspicious activity" which is completely impossible for them to prevent.

wareen

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Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 11:38:17 AM

Maybe there's a pr/marketing person on the boards who can help with advice about emails like this.

Everybody considering to push Bitcoin like this, please follow this advice from evorhees:

Quote from: evorhees

Rule number one of your first email to someone in business (who you don't know) is that it can't be more than 4 or 5 sentences. This means, you should basically just say something like, "Hey are you guys planning to accept Bitcoin as a payment option soon? "

Then if they respond with the question "WTF is that?" then you can write a couple short paragraphs of what it is, and why they as a merchant might like it.

Then if there is a second response from them, it means they're clearly interested and you can provide some links, more comprehensive info.

Especially for your first mail, less is definitely more! Starting with an essay about Bitcoin's advantages, no matter how witty and thoughtful, will probably not get you very far.

Portnoy

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Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 11:19:10 AM

Quote

You mean to tell me merchants don't realize how powerless they are when it comes to control of their bank accounts or paypall accounts??! How can Bitcoin ever compete then if people don't even feel like there's room for improvement?

A lot of people just don't know there are better alternatives, familiary is comforting. For some it breeds contemp and you'll reach those, but you could miss out on a lot of others just by including hot phrases. Bitcoin can stand on it's own merits. No need to tear the banks down, they're destroying themselves.

+1

BadBear

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Quote from: N12 on March 23, 2012, 11:22:48 AM

Quote from: check_status on March 23, 2012, 11:12:25 AM

I want the value of my BTC to rise, the higher the better. Developers, merchants, and charities all help to improve BTC's value. The more who use it the stronger and more valuable it becomes.

1. Urging people to accept Bitcoin to make their value rise sounds like a pump and dump scheme.
2. The typical merchants and charities don’t do shit, noone would use Bitcoins with them instead of fiat. They also just cash out Bitcoins for Dollars, so that actually brings down the price.

Again, the only thing that really helps is to have applications which cannot exist without Bitcoin.

1. Agree so much.

2. I wouldn't go that far, bringing awareness is a good thing, and more people using the better. How many times would someone see different sites that accept bitcoin before he wonders what it is? Anything that gets people closer to that number is a good thing, and it's better than sitting around waiting for the "killer app". Think mind share. People should know they actually do have a choice. Maybe there's a pr/marketing person on the boards who can help with advice about emails like this.

N12

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Quote from: check_status on March 23, 2012, 11:12:25 AM

I want the value of my BTC to rise, the higher the better. Developers, merchants, and charities all help to improve BTC's value. The more who use it the stronger and more valuable it becomes.

1. Urging people to accept Bitcoin to make their value rise sounds like a pump and dump scheme.
2. The typical merchants and charities don’t do shit, noone would use Bitcoins with them instead of fiat. They also just cash out Bitcoins for Dollars, so that actually brings down the price.

Again, the only thing that really helps is to have applications which cannot exist without Bitcoin.

BadBear

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Quote

You mean to tell me merchants don't realize how powerless they are when it comes to control of their bank accounts or paypall accounts??! How can Bitcoin ever compete then if people don't even feel like there's room for improvement?

A lot of people just don't know there are better alternatives, familiary is comforting. For some it breeds contemp and you'll reach those, but you could miss out on a lot of others just by including hot phrases. Bitcoin can stand on it's own merits. No need to tear the banks down, they're destroying themselves.

check_status

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Quote from: N12 on March 23, 2012, 10:57:48 AM

Quote from: rjk on March 23, 2012, 10:42:41 AM

Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:38:17 AM

You mean to tell me merchants don't realize how powerless they are when it comes to control of their bank accounts or paypall accounts??!

This is pretty much the answer, unfortunately.

Yes. Please stop this spammy and pathetic evangelizing. We don’t need any stupid merchants or people taking Bitcoins as donations, they are useless at the current stage.

What is needed are successful applications for Bitcoin like Silk Road, which are actually used by lots of people because they have NO BETTER CHOICE. I hope ogrr and coinworker will be such ones in the future.

Aren't you being a bit exclusionary and near sited?

I want the value of my BTC to rise, the higher the better. Developers, merchants, and charities all help to improve BTC's value. The more who use it the stronger and more valuable it becomes.

N12

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Quote from: rjk on March 23, 2012, 10:42:41 AM

Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:38:17 AM

You mean to tell me merchants don't realize how powerless they are when it comes to control of their bank accounts or paypall accounts??!

This is pretty much the answer, unfortunately.

Yes. Please stop this spammy and pathetic evangelizing. We don’t need any stupid merchants or people taking Bitcoins as donations, they are useless at the current stage.

What is needed are successful applications for Bitcoin like Silk Road, which are actually used by lots of people because they have NO BETTER CHOICE. I hope ogrr and coinworker will be such ones in the future.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:38:17 AM

You mean to tell me merchants don't realize how powerless they are when it comes to control of their bank accounts or paypall accounts??!

This is pretty much the answer, unfortunately.

julz

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Quote from: check_status on March 23, 2012, 10:03:00 AM

Quote from: Julz

Ok.. introducing bitcoins to more merchants sounds good.. now perhaps you could introduce the coupon clipping part to any bitcoiners who might be as bewildered as I am.

Why do coupons need to be 'clipped' and why is it so difficult that there are services to do it? (scissors??)
Is a 'coupon clipping service' a peculiarly US thing?

In the US coupons come in the mail and inside newspapers, are sometimes region specific. The only way to get these coupons is via others who collect them and resell them. For instance, search for "coupon source mailer" on Ebay. Some services offer bulk purchase options, like 10, 20,40, or 60 at a clip. Coupons help people save money when shopping for items. Extreme Coupon shoppers can save $300-$400 per trip, sometimes walking out having paid nothing for their order. People who are raising children and are looking to save money for their family use coupon clipping as a way to help out, especially when you can save 40%-50% on the food bill with little effort.

This type of retail business is the perfect fit for Bitcoins. It will put Bitcoin information into key consumers who can help improve Bitcoin value. This group of people is already active in doing something and are already more knowledgable. The Bitcoin community can tap into this to help grow the value of BTC.

Thanks for the explanation.
It seems a bit strange to me that this phenomenon exists and is worthwhile.. but I guess if multiple coupons could be used in one shop for a single checkout it could make sense.

I would have thought that the slice of the population who muck about with coupons are probably 'underbanked'.. and relatively more reliant on cash.
While that in some ways makes them prime candidates for Bitcoin usage, it also suggests to me that the currently required steps of transferring money via banks and intermediaries to exchanges such as mtgox might be a significant impediment. (but perhaps I'm just being ignorant/presumptuous about who uses these services)

hazek

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Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 10:33:59 AM

Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:08:21 AM

Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Using phrases like dictatorial control is just gonna turn most people off, and they'll just think of you as "that guy".

I said "almost dictatorial control" which is a big difference. I'm exaggerating, sure, but I didn't go overboard by saying something crazy like "I hate those fascistic vampire dictatorial banks". So if they share the sentiment at all with me I think my message should hit home pretty good.

You see, I didn't even notice the almost part, when I hit dictatorial control my eye started twitching and I just skimmed the rest, and I'm sure he did too. Sure occasionally you might get lucky and find someone who actually agrees, but the average joe isn't. He doesn't know how money works, he doesn't know about inflation or deflation, the role the banks played in the economic troubles we're experiencing, or even what economic troubles we are experiencing in the first place. Spend more time extolling the virtues of bitcoin itself and what it can actually do, and less bashing the banks.

You mean to tell me merchants don't realize how powerless they are when it comes to control of their bank accounts or paypall accounts??! How can Bitcoin ever compete then if people don't even feel like there's room for improvement?

BadBear

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Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:08:21 AM

Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Using phrases like dictatorial control is just gonna turn most people off, and they'll just think of you as "that guy".

I said "almost dictatorial control" which is a big difference. I'm exaggerating, sure, but I didn't go overboard by saying something crazy like "I hate those fascistic vampire dictatorial banks". So if they share the sentiment at all with me I think my message should hit home pretty good.

You see, I didn't even notice the almost part, when I hit dictatorial control my eye started twitching and I just skimmed the rest, and I'm sure he did too. Sure occasionally you might get lucky and find someone who actually agrees, but the average joe isn't. He doesn't know how money works, he doesn't know about inflation or deflation, the role the banks played in the economic troubles we're experiencing, or even what economic troubles we are experiencing in the first place. Spend more time extolling the virtues of bitcoin itself and what it can actually do, and less bashing the banks.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: check_status on March 23, 2012, 10:21:43 AM

Quote from: rjk on March 23, 2012, 10:11:10 AM

Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:08:21 AM

Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Using phrases like dictatorial control is just gonna turn most people off, and they'll just think of you as "that guy".

I said "almost dictatorial control" which is a big difference. I'm exaggerating, sure, but I didn't go overboard by saying something crazy like "I hate those fascistic vampire dictatorial banks". So if they share the sentiment at all with me I think my message should hit home pretty good.

I appreciate the effort, but unfortunately that message has too many trigger words and phrases that make me think spam right away. It would be ideal if you could partner up with a copywriter or someone that would polish it up into a fine sales piece. I'm pretty sure my email filter would block it based on heuristic analysis, but with some tweaking it could sail right to the top of an enterprise and become gold.

Lend us a hand rjk. Teach us thy golden pen methods that we can improve.
Why is it everytime I speak polish my arms get sore. Roll Eyes

Well, I'm not the best writer myself, I just can see how it might not fly the first time.

Maybe some of the following would help:

Referring to "I" and "personally", and offering to "share" it with me sounds somewhat similar to diet pill spam.
Noting that the email "sounds highly spam-worthy" isn't necessary.
Although fees are annoying, they are a part of daily business life and should be approached carefully. It is not fee-free for a merchant to use Bitcoin if they want to convert it to USD. And most merchants will wonder what they are missing out on service-wise if the fee is suddenly "eliminated". Who will answer the phone when there is a problem, if there are no fees to pay an employee to answer it? Get inside the business owner's head and think the way he does.
One of "those" open-source projects - sounds a bit dismissive, even if it wasn't intended that way.
Personal information - most businesses are trained to collect this anyway, regardless of whether you give it to the payment processor or not. They may feel outside their comfort zone not knowing who a customer is.

And so forth.

hazek

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At eveonline.com they already seem to be using something a bit fringe: http://www.wmtransfer.com/eng/about/

What the hell is that?

check_status

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Quote from: rjk on March 23, 2012, 10:11:10 AM

Quote from: hazek on March 23, 2012, 10:08:21 AM

Quote from: BadBear on March 23, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Using phrases like dictatorial control is just gonna turn most people off, and they'll just think of you as "that guy".

I said "almost dictatorial control" which is a big difference. I'm exaggerating, sure, but I didn't go overboard by saying something crazy like "I hate those fascistic vampire dictatorial banks". So if they share the sentiment at all with me I think my message should hit home pretty good.

I appreciate the effort, but unfortunately that message has too many trigger words and phrases that make me think spam right away. It would be ideal if you could partner up with a copywriter or someone that would polish it up into a fine sales piece. I'm pretty sure my email filter would block it based on heuristic analysis, but with some tweaking it could sail right to the top of an enterprise and become gold.

Lend us a hand rjk. Teach us thy golden pen methods that we can improve.
Why is it everytime I speak polish my arms get sore. Roll Eyes

Topic: How to make merchants aware of Bitcoins advantages? (Read 2556 times)