Topic: How To Save The Planet With Bitcoins (Read 2195 times)

Just imagine there would be a single place, like a forum, where the worlds richest, wealthiest, smartest, etc. would congregate and collectively decide to use their power for any specific purpose!
These people could then discuss their ideas and plans and everybody could be part of it.
Would such thing be really that absurd? I hope you see where I'm trying to go here...
.

As the OP of this thread, I will admit right now that almost nothing could be more unrelated to bitcoin than fukushima's troubled reactor 4 so I apologise. I think I really just wanted to get some opinions and insight from the really smart people in the bitcoin community on the problem. looks like the bitcoin hive mind has uses beyond just contemplating future bitcoin applications.   

If there is a way for me or an admin to move this whole thread elsewhere then that should be be done as it does not belong here. Though I would like to continue this conversation else where. Thanks for the great comments.

Good point, though it just struck me that this is a chaotic thread that in reality has nothing to do with Bitcoin. I'm out of here.

A good way to get exceedingly wealthy is to trade millions of personal tragedies (cancers, birth defects, etc) distributed throught a large population for a concentrated reward that ends up in the pockets of you and a small group of similar friends.  For an added bonus, reduce down the tax burden (aka 'financial violence') to zero, or even better, get the plebs to subsidize you with their taxes.  Such a sweet deal, when achieved, is well worth fighting to maintain.

Fukushima disaster happened, and the world hasn't ended. Chernobyl blew up, and the world did not end either. In fact, between these two nuclear disasters (that did cause evident damage and even death), all of us were exposed on everyday basis to the fallout from coal burning plants worldwide - from mercury to uranium to thorium - which again caused damage and even death, and to the much greater extent than those two nuclear accidents combined. Again, the world is still here. Throughout the history there have been nuclear blasts, volcanoes, pandemics, stupidity, meteorites, floods, enormous fires, landscape-changing earthquakes, industrial disasters, yet life goes on. My message to OP: have a drink and don't worry. Do what you can to make things better, but don't try to do more than that.

yup, remember "Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors – From MIT’s Dr. Josef Oehmen"?

guess the events just passed too quickly for a supportive thread on skeptics.stackexchange  :·>

What do you mean by that? We should not worry?

Do you understand how much internet lobbying activity is on going from the nuclear industry to prevent the opinion from going against nuclear power and forcing them to shut down reactors, losing them billions of dollars?

Because you guys in the US might be next and you have several of those crap reactors placed around your country, in California even close to lines.


In the United States, several nuclear reactors in California and New York are located on or near known faults. Other parts of the country where nuclear plants now exist are seismically active, although not so much as the West Coast.

Two reactors at Diablo Canyon, (near the town of San Luis Obispo, CA) are 3 miles from the Hosgri Fault line and about half a mile from an offshore fault line scientists discovered in 2008 .
Two reactors at San Onofre (next to Interstate 5 between Los Angeles and San Diego, CA) are 5 miles from the Newport-Inglewood-Rose Canyon fault .
Two reactors at the Indian Point, NY nuclear power plant are one mile from a recently-discovered intersection of two active fault lines . Close to 10 million people live within 25 miles of the Indian Point facility.


SEATTLE -- Experts agree that it's not a matter of if, but when the Pacific Northwest is rocked by an enormous earthquake, but new information shows that the "big one" could be even bigger and badder than first thought.

Scientists say when the next big one hits, it could be something straight out of your nightmares.
"Right now, technology is telling us we should be prepared, we should prepare for something like we saw in Japan," said Dr. Eddie Bernard, a Tsunami Expert and former NOAA Director.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Earthquake-experts-There-will-be-a-lot-of-destruction-139774873.html

The threat came into sharp focus last week, when shaking from the largest earthquake to hit Virginia in 117 years appeared to exceed what the North Anna nuclear power plant northwest of Richmond was built to sustain.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44369172/ns/us_news-environment/t/earthquake-threat-nuclear-reactors-far-higher-realized/#.T7vdAUV1CQw





TEPCO officials also explained that the steel support at the base of the pool and concrete wall had been reinforced by last July, which has increased by 20 percent the leeway against a possible quake.
In addition, the utility conducted a simulation exercise using analytical models that showed that even if a lower-6 intensity quake were to strike the plant again, it would not collapse.

Tepco have not told a single truth since the accident and yet you chose to trust them? And this statement is very troublesome in the light of this it appears as pure insanity:

Today Hokkaido University  stated that there is a possibility that another M9.0 hits north Japan again (soon? imminent?).
They say they caught the same earthquake echo of 89.9MHz as what they caught before 311.
According to their report , another M9.0 may hit from December to January, the epicenter may be from South Miyagi prefecture offshore to Ibaraki offshore, which is beside Fukushima plant.

http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/10/204-new-fuel-rods-turned-out-to-be-in-the-spent-fuel-pool-at-reactor-4/


Here is a look at how open reactor no4 is.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/04/a-visual-tour-of-the-fuel-pools-of-fukushima.html



Here is a quite good analysis of what will happen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMfMJQ6IHyY

And if people have to escape from the northern part of the earth because of nuclear fallout, where will they go?
Many will die not only from radiation but from starvation and other diseases, not getting medicine they need etc.

I may be a bit biased, given that I'm a mod on the Bitcoin StackExchange site, but I'm pretty sure StackExchange saves the day on this one. Seriously, though, it's like people don't even google.

http://www.zeitnews.org/energy/german-village-produces-321-more-energy-than-it-needs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildpoldsried

granted, no heavy industry in that village, but maybe we need less and less of it in the coming age of 3D printing 

Tell people about this serious situation, here is a petition directed at the US to step in.

http://www.change.org/petitions/fukushima-spent-fuel-pool-4-risks-u-s-health-and-safety

We also need a petition to the UN.

This.

Arnie Gunderssen is considered one of the worlds foremost experts on nuclear safty.
Gundersen has testified before the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards.

He was one of four experts on the industry invited to the Czech Republic to testify about perceived problems with the new Temelin nuclear power plant being built in that country.

He have accurately predicted and analysed the events of fukushima.


Ten years ago, Arnold Gundersen of Goshen was a senior vice president with Danbury-based Nuclear Energy Services controlling over 30 reactors.

He is far from alone.


3 GE engineers resigned from GE in 1976 as the design was funtamentally flawed

GE's design for a nuclear reactor at a damaged Japanese power plant spurred the 1970s resignation of three employees over concern that its core might not withstand the loss of cooling systems in a severe accident, ABC News reported.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvJQlc0CLvA




Diplomat Akio Matsumura is warning that the disaster at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan may ultimately turn into an event capable of extinguishing all life on Earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkkpwC5_Ehc&feature=related

While the epicenter of the March 11 quake occurred about 100 miles away from the Fukushima Daiichi plant, the scientists say the next big earth-shaker could be centered much closer.
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2012/02/15/could-fukushima-daiichi-be-ground-zero-for-the-next-big-one/


Specifically, Japanese scientists have published a scientific paper in European Geosciences Union’s journalSolid Earth saying that the 9.0 earthquake last March has apparently “awakened” the Fukushima earthquake fault, making it likely that a large earthquake will occur this year right near the stricken nuclear complex.

Scientists studying readings from Japanese seismic sensors have determined that there have been 20 times more quakes in the 6 months after March 2011 than in previous 9 years.

1Department of Geophysics, Tohoku University, Sendai 980-8578, Japan
2Department of Mathematical Sciences, Tsinghua University, Beijing, China
http://www.solid-earth.net/3/43/2012/se-3-43-2012.pdf

"However, the ascending
fluids have likely reduced the strength of the faults in the
FNPP area, such as the reverse Namie fault (Fig. 1b). The
compressional stress regime is therefore expected to continue to build up in the overriding plate in NE Japan, which
has potential to cause reactivation of the reverse faults and
therein generate large crustal earthquakes, such as the 2008
Iwate-Miyagi earthquake that occurred about 200 km north
of FNPP (Cheng et al., 2011) and the 2007 Niigata earthquake (M 6. in the back-arc area of NE Japan (Xia et al.,
2008). Therefore, much attention should be paid to the FNPP
seismic safety in the near future."






Matsumura admits this is an astounding number and one difficult to comprehend.

He wrote that 85 times more Cesium-137 than released at Chernobyl "would destroy the world environment and our civilization. This is not rocket science, nor does it connect to the pugilistic debate over nuclear power plants. This is an issue of human survival."

Akio Matsumura sent a letter United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. "It is no exaggeration to say that the fate of Japan and the whole world depends on NO.4 reactor.
This is confirmed by most reliable experts like Dr. Arnie Gundersen or Dr. Fumiaki Koide," he wrote to Ki-Moon.


"Before the Committee, Ambassador Murata strongly stated that if the crippled building of reactor unit 4—with 1,535 fuel assemblies in the spent fuel pool 100 feet (30 meters) above the ground—collapses, not only will it cause a shutdown of all six reactors but will also affect the common spent fuel pool containing 6,375 fuel assemblies, located some 50 meters from reactor 4. In both cases the radioactive assemblies are not protected by a containment vessel; dangerously, they are open to the air. This would certainly cause a global catastrophe like we have never before experienced."

http://akiomatsumura.com/2012/04/682.html






After visiting Fukushima, Senator Ron Wyden warned that the situation was worse than reported … and urged Japan to accept international help to stabilize dangerous spent fuel pools.

An international coalition of nuclear scientists and non-profit groups are calling on the U.N. to coordinate a multi-national effort to stabilize the fuel pools. And see this.

Fuel pool number 4 is, indeed, the top short-term threat facing humanity.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/senator-fukushima-fuel-pool-is-a-national-security-issue-for-america.html




"TEPCO is not moving fast enough and the Japanese Government is not pushing TEPCO to move fast enough either. I think the top priority of TEPCO and the top priority of the Japanese Government should be to move the fuel out of that pool just as quickly as possible. And in the meantime, they need to strengthen that pool to make sure that it can withstand an earthquake. Remember, that pool is not in a containment. You can look down in a satellite and see the nuclear fuel. The roof is blown off."

http://fairewinds.com/content/fukushima-daiichi-truth-and-future



About new earthquakes

Not likely...

New serious earthquakes are very likely according to scientists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/9122754/Japan-earthquake-and-tsunami-anniversary-scientists-warn-of-future-deadly-quake.html

The team, from the University of Tokyo, said there was a 75% probability that a magnitude seven quake would strike the region in the next four years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/16681136

The bottom line is that "earthquakes don't come with a warning," U.S. Federal Emergency Management Administration administrator Craig Fugate said during the March 11 briefing.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110315-japan-earthquake-tsunami-big-one-science/




Even in 2009 scientists predicted new earthquakes.

New research compiled by Australian scientist Dr. Tom Chalko shows that global seismic activity on Earth is now five times more energetic than it was just 20 years ago.

The rapid increase in global seismic, volcanic and tectonic activity is certain. Consequences of inaction can only be catastrophic.
There is no time for half-measures."

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-4191556.html



A new earthquake or tsunami would be probably be thousands of times worse than chernobyl.
Chernobyl was covered within days but it would not be possible to even go near the site if this happens.
All of the reactors will spew out massive amounts of radioactivity for 50 years, well about as much as 85 chernobyls!

Radioactivity that will stay for 100,000 years...

And what will happen to the thousands of tons of radioactive water containers if/when another Tsunami hits?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwO3MDfUeRo


And you have increased hydrogen levels in reactor no 2.
Hydrogen levels quintuple at Reactor No. 2 in last two weeks.
Concentrations of 4 percent or more in the air—it can explode, as has apparently occurred at reactors No. 1 and 3.

http://enenews.com/hydrogen-levels-quintuple-reactor-2-last-weeks


And then you have MOX fuel in reactor no 3.

http://www.dcbureau.org/20110315782/natural-resources-news-service/mox-fuel-rods-used-in-japanese-nuclear-reactor-present-multiple-dangers.html

A simile

Costa Concordia passengers told 'Go back to your cabins, everything is under control' as ship sank
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/costa-concordia-passengers-told-go-169789

I guess we're having a Fukushima thread.  I'll just say that, due to some personal knowledge, I would not rule this out.  Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VX0JvpW5q0

The 'simple' reason is that our regulators and government officials who have anything to do with nuclear power are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the nuclear industry.


I'll agree.  There are plenty of people in that category.

But there are a fair number of people who understand the issues well and are genuinely alarmed and keenly aware of the dangers that we face as long as we are playing around with these early generation nuclear facilities.  I am confident to say that Gundersen personifies this category.


I've overstated the probable impacts on the residents of Tokyo, and partially for effect which is not normally my style.  At the end of the day, though, nobody is really sure exactly what the 'fallout' of a full-on pyrophoric fire in several of the spent fuel pools would be.  It is now revealed that the Japanese were considering evacuating Tokyo if Daichi-I were abandoned to burn itself out and Diani went up.  Considering the lack of appropriate action on the part of the Japanese government after the #3 explosion, and to this day, that is saying something.

One thing that most people don't really consider is that nuclear weapons need to be small enough to be transported on rockets or airplanes.  Nuclear plants having no such limitations tend to have vastly more nuclear material.  It has never been considered as a practical possiblity that they could release their inventory and I have significant concern that this underestimation could be one of the greatest engineering failures in human history.  That concern is probably already sinking in as a reality in Japan.  If we don't act appropriately and it happens to one of our Mark-I reactor facilities we will at least know first hand the danger of allowing our government to become so corrupted by corporate influence though I expect that that will be a small consolation.

The truth lies somewhere in between.  Yes, government authorities will often try to downplay events as serious as Fukushima Daiichi for the simple reason that while a person is smart, groups of people panic.  On the other side you have outspoken individuals who know the louder and more dramatic their warnings are, the more headlines they will attract, regardless of facts.  Nothing makes for attractive attention grabbing headlines like stating we could have a world wide nuclear catastrophe via a spent reactor pool.



Please look up the required exposure levels to cause that kind of damage to humans. 

In regards to bitcoins, the OP struck me as someone desperate to get bitcoin's value pumped up by any means.  Linking bitcoin to Fukushima Daiichi seems pretty outrageous.  He would have more chance getting attention by trying to raise bitcoin's profile for charitable organisations working on treatments for serious diseases, or raising money for impoverished people.

You sir are terrible wrong.

One or more new even greater earthquakes are highly likely within 4 years according to every single scientist.

Fukushima 4 not withstanding another large earthquake or tsunami is likely and some of the worlds top are very worried about it.

And than we are screwed and this could happen tomorrow.

There are no warnings before according to scientists.

Look it up

With respect to Mr Gundersen and Leuren Moret, I have not yet looked at their work. Though I can say that the accepted ratio for concocting gov dis-info is approx 95% factual information to 5% bullshit. Are they disseminating information in those proportions? 

I see the equation differently;

possible + possible = lets start exploring every possible solution and making use every possible tool at our disposal, including open source financial tools that are not corrupted and debased by centralized authority.

Where?


Mr. Gundersen sounds a bit like some lady (who I've never heard of) who says wacko things, eh?  How very compelling.

I've followed Mr. Gundersen's work since days after the plants blew and have found him to be extraordinarily reliable.  Lots of the 'outrageous' things he said early on are now accepted as fact (and downplayed as much as possible when fessed up to.)

It does not sound like Jaczko is planning to have a quite retirement.  He strikes me as one of the good guys and, while severely limited by corp/gov to actually do his job, he at least tried to do the right set of things.  If he's not suicided he might have some interesting things to say in the not to distant future.


Ironically, it could.  If even a part of the remaining inventory burns and the weather conditions are not highly favorable, I suspect that even residents of Tokyo will be hairless and puking up blood.  That will be a challenge for even Libertarians to deny.  Although in decline, Japan still has a very large footprint in the global economy and if it glows to brightly for broad swaths of industry to be viable it could prove a tipping point into a variety of economic maladies (which could help prod Bitcoin onto the world stage.)

"says Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer with Fairewinds Energy Education who has visited the site"

Right after the Fukushima Daiichi incident I followed Mr Gundersen's regular video posts.  He was informative and insightful, but also tended to err on the side of the worst possible case scenario in all his videos.  What better way to get people to pay attention to him? 

To say that the fate of the world depends on reactor number 4 is laughable on so many levels.  Mr Gundersen is a lighter version of Leuren Moret, the alarmist in chief.  Have a little sample of a speech she gave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DLHHdwNKDA

In her full speech, with a straight, serious face, she claimed the USA used HAARP to cause the massive earthquake off the Japanese coast, in order to damage the reactors and make them spill nuclear fuel, which in turn was to send this contamination towards the USA, ruining the farm land, with the ultimate goal of forcing farmers to sell it at rock bottom levels to the banks.  That was the plan, according to her.  She also claims most of Europe is unsuitable for agriculture due to the Chernobyl incident for the next 600 years.

How does bitcoin fit into all of this?  It doesn't.  Simple as that.

The primary precaution here seems to be mostly to hope hard enough that there won't be a problem.  Not unlike the strategy used to keep the plants operating smoothly prior to the earthquake.  Cost the Japanese a good bit of prime agricultural real-estate (among other things.)


It already is the worst nuclear disaster ever, at least in my and a lot of other people's analysis.  Except for possibly WW-II and certain plagues of remote history, it would not surprise me to see it recognized as the worst disaster ever if/when the numbers are tallied.

Ironically, the violent explosion of what was probably the #3 spent fuel pool was a genuine boon since it fragmented the fuel inventory rather than atomized it and thus the dispersal mechanism was more limited.  A fire or less prompt criticality in the remaining groups of inventory would be a pretty significant catastrophe.  I personally do not intuitively sense that it would be as devastating to the Northern hemisphere as some people are claiming.  On the other hand, a lot of the people claiming so know a hell of a lot more about it than I.


Agree.