Topic: https://bitdaytrade.com Bitcoin Gold & Commodities margin trading - page 5. (Read 19476 times)

I also noticed this error. Just close the "pending" items, just leave already done.

I have negative balances in my account too.  I traded for a couple days at the beginning of july to try you guys out.  Then I withdrew all funds, and didn't check balance after.  When I checked again today, my currency account USD and BTC balance is negative.

Why is this? Did you send more BTC than was in my account, or is this just an internal accounting error?

account is chris [at] coinlab [dot] com

That's awesome news!


I can only see closed positions and withdrawals in the history currently. Neither did I notice any interest being charged. Well, maybe I'll see when I can use the site again, which I currently can't because due to a bug everything is screwed up (as described above) :/. I PMed you about this, Alberto.

Sorry for all troubles guys, i am very busy with a day job lately, i hope to be able to switch to bitcoin projects full-time soon.
The new version of the site which will allow bitcoin margin trading is ready and i plan to deploy it for all customers,except for bitcoin trading, until we complete a brief preliminary testing phase. All bugs that presented during these days are probably related to some changes in the code that reflected on the production machine. The new version, which will be deployed tomorrow, should have most issues fixed and offer some stability.
Interest charging started 7 days ago, and you will find an history of the interest charged on the new version of the site.
Apologizes for all inconveniences and thank you for your invaluable feedback.

Alberto

I just changed my account email and enabled google auth and now my account is gone.

<>

I had 0.95 btc in there and 0.04 and 0.02 in buy positions.

EDIT: If the position liquidates that's fine . Still would like my maintenance balance though ..

EDIT: Created another account and then added google auth. It did the same thing to that account also. Seems that the site looses contact with the session data when google auth is used ..

EDIT: my old email is enrolled in the google authenticator but when I tried to enroll the new email it said already created. So basically all you need to do is revert this account to the old email and I should be able to login fine.

EDIT: Thanks! .. That worked great! and my position survived!

I had suggested to Alberto to communicate more regularly and he said he would. I'll remind him of this if there's need.

Thanks.

Does Alberto not frequent this thread any more? I'm a bit taken back by the lack of official communication.

I hope he can fix the issue and minimize screwups like this... I know it's beta and that's ok as long as he keeps repairing things. At least there should be communication, though.

I've seen this happen before, it looks like the positions were liquidated at a price of 0, which causes a huge loss bringing your balance to the negative. Alberto was supposed to fix this, I'll check with him soon for updates.

Another screwup:



yesterday I had 5 long position of 0.1 contracts each at around 1588 to 1602 and 2 shorts of 0.05 contracts each, one at about 1569 and one somewhere in the 1580s.

all positions are gone and as you can see in the screenshot, my currency account (which had BTC 10.5x before the screwup) is insanely negative.

EDIT: damnit, now we're having a nice rally

This increases my trust in bitdaytrade.

[/quote]

Thanks for the calculation and heads-up.

now one question remains to Alberto: when will interest started to be charged? Being able to borrow at 0% is too good to be true (except if you're a bank, then it's normal I guess).

Yes, I'm consulting for Alberto so I have some knowledge about the current and future way things are handled (some of which I've put him up to), but the decisions and implementation are always Alberto's.

If you buy a contract at 1590 then when it reaches 1530 you are at $60 loss. The current maintenance for gold is 1% so to be force-liquidated at that point you need your net value to be 1%*1530=$15.3, which means that your balance should be $60+$15.3 = $75.3. If 1BTC = $8.5 this means your deposit should be 8.86 BTC.

Note that the deciding BTC rate is at the time of liquidation, not when opening the position. And this is all assuming everything works properly, which still needs to be tested.

I have some more questions:

@meni: are you helping bitdaytrade in any way? It sounds like you know more than can be inferred from public knowledge.

Can someone help me out with some calculation? I want to go long gold. Let's say I want to buy 1 contract. Now let's assume 1530 is the bottom and if it drops below that I want to accept liquidataion. With a 50:1 leverage, how many bitcoins do I have to put into the currency account if I buy the contract at, say, 1590?

Over night? What timezone?

Can you give us a heads-up before you enforce this? I'm trading on a crazy 50:1 leverage and this would eat up my funds over night ;/

Currently there is no ability to do a stop-loss order, so a feature that is only relevant to stop-loss orders is moot for now. For manually closing positions, you can liquidate part of a position, you don't have to liquidate it entirely.

I thought it was clear from my description that it's model B. Your conclusion doesn't follow. When you buy a gold contract on BDT, BDT buys a gold contract on another market with its USD reserves; when you liquidate it, BDT liquidates it making a USD profit/loss. You will also have a profit/loss, added to your BTC balance based on the BTCUSD rate at the time, and BDT will buy/sell this amount of bitcoins on the BTC market to maintain its BTC position.

This is all of course how it should happen in theory, I don't know if it's implemented yet. I'd like to remind that I'm not an official spokesperson for the Bitdaytrade platform itself, I just share what I know based on my discussions with Alberto.

Probably the key question here is: at which point exactly does the BTC / USD rate come into play? When exactly does "translated to USD" happen. Because the BTC rate can move. That's the point, it's about risk.

So, please, what model is implemented by Bitdaytrade?

Model-A: You use the BTC from the currency account to really buy into the gold market. From that point on, the value of the account and thus the margin is determined by the valuation of these positions in the gold market. The BTC rate can move anywhere, because its irrelevant at that point. The BTC are sold. When the gold position is closed, we buy BTC back. In case Bitdaytrade implemets this model, then it would be a real derivative: you'd allow your customers to swap the cash flows and risks of the two markets.

Model-B: The customer deposits BTC, and that is where the value and the risk stays. The customer can than bet on the gold rate, but the value of the account (and the margin) is still tied to the BTC value. When the BTC/USD rate drops, the customer gets a margin call. This behaviour would prove that in this case: either (a) no real trade on the gold market happened, or (b) the bitdaytrade platfrom carries the risk of their speculative gold positions not matching the value of the BTC positions.


You see, this question is important. Especially for the customer judging the counterparty risk of trusting his money to your platform.

Oh no!

please don't remove one of your distingushing features. We shouldn't look on the balance and gains solely, its also about risk.

There is quite a significant difference: if you close out a position, typically with a stop-loss order, the whole position is gone. To the contrary, when you have two oposing positions, one created by a stop loss, you're protected for the moment, but you are still free to decide which position to retain, when you come back.

Obviously, there wouldn't be a difference for someone sitting all the time in front of the trading app and whatching the rates move. Then you'd use stop losses only as a safety guard, to protect against catastrophic events.

I opened a position yesterday. It's gone. Again?!?

If you're still having this problem please contact info(at)bitdaytrade.com.

Right.

The ability to have opposing positions will soon be disabled, because there's not much point in it - what you would profit on one you would lose on the other. Opening a short position when you already have a long one will instead liquidate part of the long position.

You will be force-liquidated if your net value (account balance translated to USD + Profit/loss from current positions) drops below 1% (the current maintenance value for gold) of your position (position size multiplied by the current price of a single contract).

thanks for your explanations.

So, to expand on that question and your explanation, where does the BTC/USD rate come into play?

My understanding is as follows: BTC deposit -> denomination in USD, based on the current rate  -> available margin.


Now, lets assume for example, if I open riskless positions in the gold market, i.e. open a long and a short in such a way, that they cancel out each others effect completely (both would need to have the same closing price). And lets assume further, that I use all the available margin for doing so. (opening such a position incurs 2 times the spread, so that is what I pay for that kind of insurance per week)

Given that construction, to what extend is my BTC position now hedged?
For example, if the BTC rate drops considerably, while I'm "in" such a riskless gold position?
Would I get a margin call? Or is the current margin based on the current value of my account, which -- as assumed -- should be completely anchored in the gold market now?

Im having trouble withdrawing my tiny amount of coins...

I get a processing window popup... and nothing else.