Topic: http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here) - page 13. (Read 318060 times)

Pyramiscam still around, doing some scampyramidalscamfishing 

dk293aeq   2012-10-31 03:31:07 UTC   2.0 BTC

2014-07-07 10:26:04 UTC   0.00000182    reward on deposit [dk293aeq]


f9tez2gk   2014-05-13 21:26:57 UTC   0.0095 BTC

2014-07-07 10:28:03 UTC   0.00000556    reward on deposit [f9tez2gk]


Is this going to be fixed?

@Pyra:

I'm chomping at the bit for referrals to reopen, because I believe that Pyramining is back to being a good service again, one which I can recommend to friends.

Right now, no one is able to sign up or use the referral system, so you will be at 10% until they are turned back on

Hey all,

I only have a 10% bonus, and have been trying to raise it with posting the referral links when I could, but no one was using them.
Is there any other way to get more *bonus? because I really want to increase returns. Any suggestions
Maybe there are ways to work out deals to grow the account?

+1 Really interested in this as well

there is a good option, that no one consider!! some period ( 6 months for example ) of obligatory reinvesting for old account! So you can by new hardware and invite new people to invest in the project! I think is a reasonable idea !

As far as statistics go, Pyra, could you put up a page that will give graphs for the whole project?

Hashing rate, how many shares we have and what they're worth (for p2pool), and a spike when a block is found, with the height of the spike for how much Pyra's share was?

Would really like to see project graphs from time to time...

=squeak=

Good stuff.  My idea was clearly a bad one, but I'm glad it's stimulated a little life and (for the most part, useful) conversation in here to try and kick the old horse and get her moving again

I hope to hear good news from you soon.

Don't  let us down

I read all your considerations (flames apart) and I will take everything into account for the imminent upgrade.

My opinion on points 1 and 2:

I can see the need for the change, although in my opinion there should have been an opt-in option.

In order to reconcile the goals of the pre-change structure with the new structure, I would say to assign all of the old accounts a blanket hash/BTC rate, based on the date of the switchover.  (Take the total hashrate at the time of the switch, the total active deposit amounts, and divide the hashrate by deposit amounts to make the base hash/BTC rate.) 

Then, after the switchover, any new deposits would be considered acceptance of the new TOS, and applied the new, current scheme of hash/BTC (currently at 256Ghash/BTC) to each deposit.

Finally, apply the surplus hashrate equally on a hash/BTC rate.  (By surplus I mean any new hashrate that hasn't been applied to a deposit yet, as well as any hashrate from old equipment that is "retired" from completed deposits, but the equipment is not yet decommissioned due to being less efficient than the exchange rate/difficulty allows.) This way, small but recent deposits don't get huge rewards (they're already being rewarded simply by being recent; there's no need to reward them for being small as well) which will allow old, large deposits to clear the system more quickly (which is the point of the "last 10" scheme currently in use) which will lead to clearing out even more "retired" hashrate for use by younger and smaller deposits.

And keep a tally of the "retired" hashrate.  As equipment gets decommissioned or fails, pull it out of the surplus pool so that nothing is being over-promised.  (On the same vein, there is no reason to undersell hashing, since it's actual earnings that are divided among investors, rather than true hashrates.  The hashrates are simply there to give a general guideline about what might be expected in a non-variable system.)

On points 3 and 4:  I agree completely.  Let's not lop off the top of the trees in some idiotic attempt to potentially benefit the bushes.  Socialism works by uplifting the base; it was communism that failed by attempting to limit the top.  If there's some ceiling to investments after which they get suspended, nobody will want to invest, and we won't get the benefits of new hardware. (I'll talk more in my rebuttal of point 6.)

On point 5: YES.  We can't have multi-level-marketing without referrals.

6:  I agree that it is universally unpopular.  I also don't believe that it will allow anyone to get anything back, because all of the capital is invested in hardware.  All dividends come directly from mining.  There is nearly no liquidity.

Rather, I propose that we stay the course, because to do anything else would lead to failure.  New investments must be encouraged, yet we can't allow old investments to hit a cap before they fully mature.

As it stands right now, any mining equipment bought today is expected to bring about 75% ROI based on BTC only.  This works in fiat because BTC is a deflationary commodity; investments in mining equipment will continue to earn a real profit using more stable currencies rather than commodities. 

Tangent: Individuals are foolish to buy mining equipment directly; rather the smart option is to buy BTC directly and let the market price rise.  For instance, buying 1 BFL 5.5Ghash Jalapeno at the start of their pre-order period (which turned out to be incredibly stupid due to their delays) would have netted a person about 1BTC.  If bought in fiat, that gives a profit of about $400.  However, if you'd have bought $200 worth of BTC at the time ($13/BTC), you'd be seeing about $9,500 in profit.

Back to the point: Pyramining guarantees 110% return on BTC deposits, regardless of fiat exchange rates, with the tradeoff being that a person needs to be patient; it could take years to see your investment mature.  (Keep in mind that brick-and-mortar companies and established e-tailers don't expect 100% ROI for at least a decade, so 5 years to 110% is AWESOME, besides the point that the value of BTC will also appreciate greatly in that time.)  Because the difficulty continues to climb at exponential rates, Pyra's pool needs a constant influx of new hardware, and will continue to need new hardware until difficulty growth levels out.

That is, every deposit made today will eventually have a hashrate that is (comparatively) so low that it would take decades to see the deposit mature.  In order to keep the account active so that an account's older deposits will complete within reasonable times, new deposits must be made to that account.  Eventually, when the difficulty settles down as the market finally gets saturated with the most efficient of ASICs, accounts won't need new deposits in order to keep a reasonable earning rate, but I'm predicting that it will be years before this happens.

This isn't the fault of Pyra; it's the nature of the 110% return on BTC deposits and the fact of the difficulty climbing.  Pyra is doing a good job of managing the current storm, and of encouraging new deposits so that the entire structure doesn't fail...  however I can see room for improvement.

First, rather than the oldest 10 bonus, I would argue for a blanket, BTC-based bonus on all deposits.  This will prevent the appearance of bias, and falls more in line with what the original investors signed up for.  Second, it must be very clear that old, large deposits will not be capped, stopped, halted, paused, held, nerfed, gimped, or otherwise penalized.  The whole point of Pyramining is to bring deposits to maturity.  If anything threatens even the most exceptional and rarest deposits, then it creates doubt in the minds of everyone about the safety of their own deposits, and people will not reinvest.

And a new point, #7:

Bring back statistics.  Yes, some statistics were depressing, especially as we were waiting for the new ASICs...  however, we could have a "your estimated maturity date could become yyyy-mm-dd if you deposit XXbtc" somewhere in the statistics, that would encourage new deposits and reinvesting.

My Opinion:

1.  He should have stuck to the original T&C.  This is what everyone signed up to and everyone was aware of (at least those who bothered to read them).  If you couldn't be bothered to do your Due diligence, that's your bad luck.

2.  He hasn't done as described in 1, but has produced a bonus hashrate directed at oldest 10 accounts.  This is unfair and should be split evenly across all accounts.  I am happy for the T&C to change for NEW MEMBERS OR ACCOUNTS but not for existing ones.  Even this has not been done as I had some BTC in the queue and that is now under the new 'get the hashrate you buy' scheme and not the old scheme.  Good for those accounts but not good for existing members.

3.  Any talk of suspending accounts in profit until those not in profit have caught up is ludicrous.  Why should sensible, early investors be penalised to offset the losses of late adopters who invested at the wrong time or set up their accounts poorly.  That is penalising success and rewarding failure.  I do not say this because I stand to gain, but rather because it is common sense.

4.  Any solution similar to 3 above is simply robbing one group to pay another.  This is unfair.  Everyone should get what they signed up to at the time they signed up.  You cant tell Warren Buffet he has had enough money from the stock market, so his fund will be suspended until all those who lost money in any market crash get a chance to get their investment back!!  What is needed is a sustainable plan to generate more income.  The amount owed is not going to decrease, so if we ever want to see those coins back, we need to increase the income.

5.  Why have the referals not been fixed so people can advertise etc again?  This may assist with 3 and 4 above.

6.  The other alternative is for everyone to take a haircut.  Write down all outstanding investments!  This will be universally unpopular, but it will mean that people will get something back and should allow for further investment going forward.  I am not saying I support this, but its an option.  However, it would need to be a straight 20/50//80% across all accounts.  None of this talk of 'he earnt more than me so he should now lose more!!).

Just my thoughts!

Ad-funded faucets are advertising fraud.

Not, I recommend to add some banners, like a Bitcoin faucet.

I could recover the money faster, since my investment was low.

So, you recommend advertising fraud to recover your investment? Really? lol

Please: add some banners at login screen.

At least I could earn money a bit faster if I win 1 uBTC each time that I log in.

Yeah, I know...

Thing is, the biggest problem I see when I see people making their arguments is that they keep thinking of Bitcoin as a currency... granted, that is how it was hyped, but in practice it is actually a commodity, that just happens to be very easy to barter with in exchange for something else of value...

That's where I see Bitcoin having its strength, for barter... not as a currency itself.

It is the same with the stock investing... well, yeah, the stock prices pegged to crypto, keep going down... but that's because all of those businesses are operating in their local real-world currency, and have to be converted to BTC value through the exchange rate.

I stopped thinking about BTC balances and value itself a while ago, and just look at what the real-world value of it is, and I just can't be bent out of shape about it.

Sure, right now, I have around 20 BTC... although a couple years ago I had around 45 BTC... but that was when it was worth around USD 10-15 each... and my 20 BTC right now is worth around USD 500-600 each lately... and I just can't bring myself to feel bad about my wallet value going from USD 450-675 up to USD 10,000-12,000 now, and I still have BTC dividends and Pyra payouts, and my jalapeno is still getting the occasional p2pool share giving me a little bit of coin, which I keep holding onto... and I expect BTC value to still rise even more in the not-too-distant future.

I just can't feel bad about it, and I just don't get why some people keep acting like the sky is falling and that they've "lost" something. Things are going good from what I can see.

:shrugs and shakes his head:

=squeak=

Yes I agree that maybe bitcoin mining for pyra is getting too difficult but that is business, you have to keep the profits up.

But removing profits from other users is not the answer.


He needs to learn, you win some and you lose some.

The way he's going, I'm half-expecting him to start ranting about social justice and redistribution and spreading the wealth and frothing at the mouth while he does it.

Some people just aren't strong enough to cope with capitalism and risk... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he started shouting about switching to PPS too, cuz variance makes him twitchy...

=squeak=

edit: corrected quote attribution to proper poster