Topic: http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here) - page 140. (Read 318060 times)

Well, taking into account that zeta-mining bonds costed 0.295 in the IPO and now are only valued at 0.278, less than 1 month after the IPO, do your math and tell me if a 40% drop in value is impossible or not realistic.

I think it should be clearer with an hypothetical scenario in which I will do the math for you.

Image that you are willing to 'invest' 100 BTCs and you are assessing these two choices:

• a) Buy some pyramining bonds
• b) Buy some zeta-mining bonds

Option a) I spend 100 BTCs now and I get 110 BTCs in 10 months from now.
Option b) I spend 100 BTCs in zeta-mining bonds at today price of 0.278 so I got 359.71 bonds (yeah, they should be 359 bonds).

At the current difficulty, every zeta-mining bond gives as 1MH/s that is 0.019060 btcs per month. I know it is not very easy to forecast how the difficulty is going to change so we would ignore that fact and assume for a moment that it would not change. After all, both mining bonds will be affected difficulty changes but I do not have any strong evidence that makes me think that one of them is going to outperform the other in that scenario.

10 months later:

• In option a ) We will get 110 BTCs
• In option b) we will get 68.42 BTCs from 10 months of dividends + 359 zeta-mining bonds.

The only way in which the option a will be superior will be those in which the 359 zeta-mining costs less than 41.48 btcs that is 0.115 btc per bond!.

In a ponzi scheme, one takes advantage of the people he/she refers to. If we decide not to do that depositing money in pyramining is like betting against the odds that the prices of similar mining bonds will drop more than 40% by April 2013.

Do you think it is a fair comparision?
Do you think that bond prices will drop at half by the end of this year? maybe more by April 2013?

We just released a new service linked to Pyramining:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/introducing-the-rock-bitcoin-fixed-return-bond-86454

This Bond should solve the problem about getting out. 

Of course, it gives you "only" 1% fixed per month

Thank you!

I think you are forgeting the part where the bonds can drop in price for varous factors and you will be left with worthless "paper" in your hands.

And yes, it's a loan mostly, not an "investment" per se.
I can't speak for others, but I'm profiting. Almost tripled my deposit in 1 month and I'm still at 7% reward completion.

I think I have missed something, so please help me if there is anything I have misunderstood.

With current difficulty levels if I put 100 BTCs in pyramining today, with a sponsor referral I will get about 110 BTCs in 10 months.
So this is similar to a loan where I can only get a 1% interest a month. Moreover I cannot directly withdraw my deposit before the expiration period although I could try to negotiate a withdrawal through therocktrading for a fee.

I am sure there should be something I am missing here, as I do not see the benefit of investing in pyramining instead of any other mining bond listed on GLBSE. With any of them you could sell your bonds whenever you want and you will get more than 6% interest instead of 1%.

Those devices are not very reliable, and they can't be ordered in such quantities. If you order a few ones, they make you wait months...
They draw exactly 2 times the amount of energy compared to Spartan6 FPGA, and some of them have problems with cooling. You didn't considered electicity costs, and the fact that you need also a computer, and a place where you put them.

With the production batch of July, I will occupy 2 racks, 6 servers, and so on... I don't think that even with BFL (supposing you can get that many) you can stay under 10 months for a complete break-even. Of course if you only see what you want (without all the infrastructure involved), it might seem easier, but it's not sustainable as a business.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/index.html

I say ABOUT...
and in pyraimne profit also depend on Difficulty

So, do you expect current difficulty to last for 240 days?

With current Difficulty

For how long will he get that value?

standart BitForce Single from butterflylabs cost ~ 120 btc
he get about 0.5 btc/day
break-even = 120/0.5 = 240 day without electric pay

1) Infrastructure bought through Pyramining deposits remains allocated to Pyramining until it breaks up.
2) You get your capital back plus 10% earnings in 10 months or less. Try to buy hardware for mining by yourself and tell me when you break-even.
3) Infrastructure is totally managed, you have to do NOTHING at all. I am doing a lot of efforts to produce the hardware at the lowest possible cost, assemble the rackmount units, configure and maintain all the servers, replace failed units, maintain the datacenter and the internet connection, supplying electric power, and keeping the whole thing highly profitable for members. I keep only the 0.5% on payout transactions and Bitcoin transactions are paid by me. And in case of accounts with a deposit of 0.001, the payout transaction will cost far more than the 0.5%.

My real "profit" is that doing quantity orders, I can buy my private infrastructure (using MY funds) at a better price. Creating Pyramining allowed me to reach my target and at the same time giving an useful and profitable service to everyone supporting this idea.

If you can do it better than me, and offer in addition a piece of property, just do it, I am sure you will gather a lot of members.

Last but not least, if you find it unfair, you are not forced to partecipate.

I tend to think of it more as a loan, which you get paid back with bonus(interest).

Ya want ownership of sorts, you're better off investing in stock in a mining company.

-- Smoov

I think it's unfair play.
We buy the infrastructure for you.
Do we get 10% if you do not play in referrals.
I think we should have a piece of property.

Get a good all risk insurance.

You do have quite a value over there! 

I am using several addresses (each pool of miners has it's own). If you see your payout transactions you should be able to go back to which p2pool address generated it. I am also planning to publish more statistics on the site about mining revenues and transactions, but I am not sure yet if it's wise, I have to consider all the aspects (I am also considering to not display the total hashrate). I wouldn't want to attract hackers attention (even if there is not much to hack here, the wallets are offline and payouts are made everytime in a given account there is more than 1 BTC)...

A discussion about this is appreciated, with considerations about security vs transparency.

What is the pyramining p2pool address? This way we can see how much of our hashrate is going to p2pool.

Why oh why do I come to the forum while drunk 

Hello Psy,

Nice wallet ! I’m glad to be one of your referrals! 

As far as your request, even though I’m aware it is your wallet, we still need to follow Security protocol.

1)   I need to receive via Mail your unique deposit address in order to login and certify you are the account holder.  As you know it is a safe procedure to do it because I cannot change anything.
2)   We will make a proposal to you which, if accepted, will have to be notified to Pyramining from both of us
3)   The Rock will transfer amount agreed to your payout address only.  No exceptions
4)   Pyramining, checking the transfer and the amount, will modify payout address

Thank you!

OK, eliale, how much do you give me for my account?
http://www.pyramining.com/account/browse?id=s9q3bxy8