HydroMining - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

cuz0882

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Quote from: EskimoBob on June 22, 2012, 08:57:24 AM

If you like to make this bond even remotely interesting, fix part of the coupon and let part of it float, based on Mh/s.
Make it even more serious, add a fixed price and the date, when your bonds mature aka date and price you buy back all the bonds.
This is how bonds are usually issued. This perpetual garbage, with floating call price and what not, has to die

It's impossible to know what the profits will be from a single. I've set the price to be as fixed as possible.

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If you really want to issue a proper perpetual bond, fix the call price and set a reasonable call protection (date before bonds can not be called).

Let me ask this. Will you lend me money on similar terms like this perpetual garbage that floats around in GLBSE? Something like this: I'll pay you a part of what ever I can earn from the money you gave me and I'll pay you back the loan when it has become worthless (coupon payments are close to 0 an nobody wants to hold the bond any more)? Pay pack the loan when? Oh, when ever I feel like

Will you lend me money on those terms?

Yes, I just had $2,500 in GBLSE before I purchased my last order of singles. It's impossible to know if mining will be profitable in the long run. Bond holders are taking the same risk as normal miners. If you want a guaranteed buy back date and price they have US Savings bonds with 2.2% yearly interest.

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BTW, In case of liquidation, bond owners come fist and you have to pay them before stock holders get anything. This also means you have to buy back all the bonds. Debt (bond, perpetual or not) must be taken care of first.

Why are you telling me this? Stop TROLLING everyone's security threads. Get a life dude.

EskimoBob

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Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

If you like to make this bond even remotely interesting, fix part of the coupon and let part of it float, based on Mh/s.
Make it even more serious, add a fixed price and the date, when your bonds mature aka date and price you buy back all the bonds.
This is how bonds are usually issued. This perpetual garbage, with floating call price and what not, has to die

If you really want to issue a proper perpetual bond, fix the call price and set a reasonable call protection (date before bonds can not be called).

Let me ask this. Will you lend me money on similar terms like this perpetual garbage that floats around in GLBSE? Something like this: I'll pay you a part of what ever I can earn from the money you gave me and I'll pay you back the loan when it has become worthless (coupon payments are close to 0 an nobody wants to hold the bond any more)? Pay pack the loan when? Oh, when ever I feel like

Will you lend me money on those terms?

BTW, In case of liquidation, bond owners come fist and you have to pay them before stock holders get anything. This also means you have to buy back all the bonds. Debt (bond, perpetual or not) must be taken care of first.

cuz0882

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

I have made a update regarding the ASIC announcement. I set the bond price at 1.73 btc.

cuz0882

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 05, 2012, 06:28:50 PM

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on June 05, 2012, 02:12:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Right now I have 20gh of personal mining rigs and singles. I have more 10 singles ordered, most should be here when they ship out the next batch. I will only sell bonds that can be covered by what I'm currently running. All bonds will go towards singles until something better comes out.

Can the equipment be commercially insured against theft (& fire)?

This may add cost, but I think that it would increase investor confidence, so you should do it.

I've been meaning to do it for myself as well. It's not very much to cover against that. I will see about getting it done before I sell any bonds.

Vernon715

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on June 05, 2012, 02:12:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Right now I have 20gh of personal mining rigs and singles. I have more 10 singles ordered, most should be here when they ship out the next batch. I will only sell bonds that can be covered by what I'm currently running. All bonds will go towards singles until something better comes out.

Can the equipment be commercially insured against theft (& fire)?

This may add cost, but I think that it would increase investor confidence, so you should do it.

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Right now I have 20gh of personal mining rigs and singles. I have more 10 singles ordered, most should be here when they ship out the next batch. I will only sell bonds that can be covered by what I'm currently running. All bonds will go towards singles until something better comes out.

Can the equipment be commercially insured against theft (& fire)?

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 11:06:14 AM

It is a bond like stated above. The power costs may not seem to matter, but if I could no longer afford to mine because of high power costs it would matter. I would not invest with someone who had low profit margins with the block reward dropping to 25 soon.

Exactly! A bond is essentially a loan. Even if you trust the issuer to continue paying even if the venture is losing money, there is much less default risk if the venture is profiting well.

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 08:49:22 AM

my power cost at .0208/Kwh.

How? Is that a commercial rate?

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 08:49:22 AM

Comments are welcome.

Will this be a corporation, LLC, or sole proprietorship?

Looking forward to the details, like how much capacity, what type of mining equipment and facility, your qualifications, etc.

cuz0882

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Quote from: ?? on ??

That is an inaccurate assessment. Garr255 is not setting up an account for an anonymous person, he is housing and managing the hardware while the anonymous person has provided the financial liquidity. A synergy bond will be = to 1mhash while a hydro bond = 10mhashs. A synergy bonds hash rate is 10 times less so the price must be about 10 times less ending up very near your price/mhash ratio.
Synergy is being run by the same guy who runs cognitive. So I do not see any more risk than hydro.
Hydro does offer a much higher buy back rate of 1.3 compared to synergies 1.05. That is a more competitive stance.

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"If operation is ceased at any time, during the same week the Investor, not the Manager, will repurchase all bonds at 105% the 744 hour average price."

I got the impression the anonymous investor is responsible for buying back bonds in liquidation, which would take responsibility off the manager..

punningclan

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Making a better tomorrow, tomorrow.

Low power mining operations are definitely lower risk and you have a cool name, I'm in!

cuz0882

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 03:54:00 PM

read the forum thread

The forums thread doesn't state a price and it hasn't been released onto glbse yet so no ticker yet.
Birds tell me that its price will make it very competitive in price. I am not just going off the thread.

It sounds like a person who is trusted is setting up a account for someone anonymous, but taking no responsibility for the account. The anonymous person claims to have enough liquid cash to cover all the bonds. Instead of using his money, he's paying to borrow it. The only price listed, was the same as me charging 2.5-3.0 btc. If they do default on the bonds the only person you can go after is the anonymous guy. If hes already risking his money, why borrow it at all?

Vernon715

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read the forum thread

cuz0882

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Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 03:50:55 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

How do you plan to compete with synergy.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-most-competitive-mining-bond-synergy-25ghs-glbse-84993

Good question, I want to hear (read) the answer.

What's their Ticker symbol on GLBSE? or price?

Vernon715

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Quote from: ?? on ??

How do you plan to compete with synergy.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-most-competitive-mining-bond-synergy-25ghs-glbse-84993

Good question, I want to hear (read) the answer.

Sukrim

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Please give 2 example payout calculations, one with a week without difficulty changes and another one with a difficulty change during the week.

I'm currently evaluating mining bonds to conformity to their claimed payout rate and these things can become interesting to say the least...

Blazr

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Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 03:03:26 PM

I thought I already had listed the buyback price earlier. It's up there now. Most bonds can be repurchased buy the issuer. I don't see how they could guarantee a price at liquidation though.

Most mining bonds are perpetual mining bonds (they last forever). The only way the bond can be cancelled is by the issuer buying back, there is no liquidation as the bond holders don't own any assets, so it is a guaranteed price.

cuz0882

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Activity: 392

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 02:04:31 PM

I guess we can agree to disagree on that. I've looked at a lot of the mining bonds. I have not seen anyone with a guaranteed buyback price.

You didn't look hard enough then. All of the mining bonds have a buyback clause, those selling shares of a mining company don't have a buyback clause.

YABMC:

Quote from: https://glbse.com/asset/view/YABMC

THE ISSUER can buy back the bond at any time at a price equivalent to 105% of the highest price the bond was last traded on GLBSE over the previous 15 days (360 hours).

Bitbond:

Quote from: https://glbse.com/asset/view/BITBOND

The bond issues reserves the right purchase back coupons at 110% of the 15 day average trading price on GLBSE.

So just to clear things up, are you selling a bond, or shares in your mining company?

Not trying to argue with you or find fault in your operation, just want to get this clear as I'd like to invest. I don't think many people would invest in a bond without a buyback clause as it wouldn't make sense, you would be promising to pay us the mining proceeds forever and would have no way of cancelling the bond.

I thought I already had listed the buyback price earlier. It's up there now. Most bonds can be repurchased buy the issuer. I don't see how they could guarantee a price at liquidation though.

Vernon715

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sounds good

cuz0882

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Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 02:34:28 PM

Quote from: tgmarks on June 04, 2012, 02:27:53 PM

I'm very interested. Will keep an eye out for the IPO.

Same here. However, I think that there are a couple of rough spots in your presentation.

Ya, I was filling out the GLBSE forms this morning and needed a link for bitcointalk. Figured I would get a chance to work on it before anyone posted..

Vernon715

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Quote from: tgmarks on June 04, 2012, 02:27:53 PM

I'm very interested. Will keep an eye out for the IPO.

Same here. However, I think that there are a couple of rough spots in your presentation.

tgmarks

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I'm very interested. Will keep an eye out for the IPO.

Topic: HydroMining - page 2. (Read 8268 times)