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Topic: HyperStake Development Journal (HDJ) - page 4. (Read 18423 times)

legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Blockchain Developer
October 10, 2014, 02:45:19 PM
#50
Thank you for the mention david Cheesy.  I want to toss in one idea i had.  Right now HYP is 750% flat.  What about a degrading interest rate according to balance?

For example 1000 - 30,000 = 800%
30k - 60k = 750%
61K - 90k = 650%

etc until annual interest rate 1Mill HYP = 350/400%

I think this would help keep whales from dumping because of consistent competition from the people with lower balances.  I think that could help stem the balance of power.

One problem I can see arising from this is people owning multiple wallets with balances of 30K.  A VM could be setup to run multiple wallet instances at the expense of system resources.

Impossible really. Nothing can keep someone from holding multiple addresses.
hero member
Activity: 530
Merit: 500
October 10, 2014, 02:35:22 PM
#49
Thank you for the mention david Cheesy.  I want to toss in one idea i had.  Right now HYP is 750% flat.  What about a degrading interest rate according to balance?

For example 1000 - 30,000 = 800%
30k - 60k = 750%
61K - 90k = 650%

etc until annual interest rate 1Mill HYP = 350/400%

I think this would help keep whales from dumping because of consistent competition from the people with lower balances.  I think that could help stem the balance of power.

One problem I can see arising from this is people owning multiple wallets with balances of 30K.  A VM could be setup to run multiple wallet instances at the expense of system resources.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Blockchain Developer
October 10, 2014, 02:20:32 PM
#48
Inflation is bad. Bad™. BAD. Why? Err... because. Voilà, c'est comme ça. This is bad because this is bad, period.
Oh well, this is bad because my errands list is more expensive every passing year, even though I buy the same thing. A coffee used to cost X cents, now it costs me X+Y% cents. Bad.
Oh! and the whole money creation thing too. This is bad, because QE, banksters and my grandmother. Gold rulez (gold = limited supply = deflation).

Well, maybe, maybe not. Deflation has one dire consequence: early adopters have it all. The problem is not about taking risk (risk/reward is good), the problem is about not having the opportunity. What about people who did not hear about it? What about those too young to invest? Heck, what about those who are not even born yet?
I also don't hold the harsh views against moderate fiat inflation. If low 2-3% inflation targeting creates stable value storage, then I think that is something worth trading off, a bit of value loss for more stability.  Whether the CPI or whichever government tracked index is accurately modeled is a different conversation, from the underlying point. (and yes this theory isn't really much to do with HYP).

Quote
Bitcoin may be considered premined after two extra years (who cares about the first years if new entrants can only get a bit of the money?).

Thats a really good point. Most crypto-extremist trolls will hold alts to a much different standard than they do bitcoin. Did bitcoin have a POD (proof of devlopment/proof of bribe)?  Did bitcoin have a dev that released his identity public?  Bitcoin was essentially insta-mined as well. Sometimes it is hard to put everything into perspective with all of the required crypto expectations.

Quote
Another option is inflation. Provided inflation is constant (linear, not logarithmic, curve) and unlimited in time, then there is no premine accusation possible

One thing to keep in mind is that even with linear emission, the reward becomes less % of the coin supply overtime.  This does give more reward to early adopters. But it could also be said that early adopters have more risk and uncertainty of the direction of the coin, and thus should in fact have more reward. Any thoughts on this?
legendary
Activity: 1450
Merit: 1013
Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952
October 10, 2014, 02:08:17 PM
#47
Deflation has one dire consequence: early adopters have it all. The problem is not about taking risk (risk/reward is good), the problem is about not having the opportunity. What about people who did not hear about it? What about those too young to invest? Heck, what about those who are not even born yet?

Interesting point. I think the universal human condition of mortality takes care of this, albeit not elegantly. "Shrouds have no pockets". I don't mean this to seem flippant - a structural slow churn is hard-wired into our situation. Whenever anyone is born, other people hold all the goodies. After that, some win and some lose - some overcome dire odds, others squander a head-start. Most of us say or think "if only" from time to time - the wheel turns, and then it is somebody else's world. (Geezers think like this, I guess. I wasn't always a geezer).

Put more starkly - it really doesn't matter much if person X "has it all" to start with. They will keep some/all or lose some/all over time, as is their nature and their luck in life, and then their turn will end. Gates and Buffett worked for what they got. Some guy digging holes in the ground arguably worked harder and has nothing much to show for it. Some other guy found a lucky lottery ticket on the sidewalk. Yet another guy - written up in People Magazine as the Next Bill Gates - gets run over by a beer truck. Churn happens.

Bottom line: I wouldn't agonize too much over starting points. There will always be a starting point of some kind - and somebody will complain that it is not fair. They will be right, but that is not what matters.






hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 10, 2014, 01:37:55 PM
#46
Thanks. Yes, I got my first few thousand yesterday - only 190 hours to stake, he says, looking at his watch.  Wink
People get commited with the HYP, this is part of the community involvement. The "Age" column helps tremendously on this.

Looking at the wikia now. Everything seems very new, lots of stubs - early days - that's a good thing.
Since HYP is an inflationary coin, you are still an early adopter :-) See my previous post.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 10, 2014, 01:35:42 PM
#45
Inflation is bad. Bad™. BAD. Why? Err... because. Voilà, c'est comme ça. This is bad because this is bad, period.
Oh well, this is bad because my errands list is more expensive every passing year, even though I buy the same thing. A coffee used to cost X cents, now it costs me X+Y% cents. Bad.
Oh! and the whole money creation thing too. This is bad, because QE, banksters and my grandmother. Gold rulez (gold = limited supply = deflation).

Well, maybe, maybe not. Deflation has one dire consequence: early adopters have it all. The problem is not about taking risk (risk/reward is good), the problem is about not having the opportunity. What about people who did not hear about it? What about those too young to invest? Heck, what about those who are not even born yet?

People who say you can't slow down emission because it looks like a scam... well in a few years 99% of all the currency will be emitted, how will that look like to newcomers (a scam?)

The instamine period is all relative. Even 4 years will look like an instamine in the context of 50 years.

Bitcoin may be considered premined after two extra years (who cares about the first years if new entrants can only get a bit of the money?).
One answer is redistribution, which requires merchant (and regulator) adoption. This is a race (and one that Monero is actually running and the minimal inflation at the end of the mining phase for incentivizing security of the network is not the same thing). If you cannot achieve to become mainstream enough before a substantial amount of the coin is mined, then you may face rejection because of perceived unfairness (and because the next coin is one click away - the reason why gold was not rejected despite being centralised is that there was no real competition). This whole "Bitcoin is premined" story might be a large incentive for the coming rise of cryptofiat.

Another option is inflation. Provided inflation is constant (linear, not logarithmic, curve) and unlimited in time, then there is no premine accusation possible (there would still be the "early adopters got it cheaper and I was not born yet" issue but then then price could also have lowered so it cancels out).
Now, inflation is not the only thing to take into consideration. The proof algorithm matters too. Here, proof-of-stake raises a significant concern, as mentionned by a redditer: since PoS is both mining power and reward (whereas for PoW, it is two different things, mining rig on one hand, token on the other hand), it is much easier to keep its wealth rank ("richlist"). The only way for someone to get richer than you is that either you sell or the other person buys. This encourages hoarding more than PoW does, which in turn reduces liquidity and thus increases volatility (in other words: people don't want to "kill the golden goose", so they don't sell, so there is less to buy, so when someone wants to buy at sell price, he raises the price significantly and the opposite when someone sells at buy prices).

Quote from: tokyoghetto link=topic=406112.msg6601689#msg6601689
the higher the interest, the less liquid the asset is, resulting in high volatility.

So, inflation with proof-of-work (like Dogecoin) prevents accusation of premine. Inflation with proof-of-stake (like HyperStake) does also, but reduces the chance of getting richer or poorer (except if you buy or sell, which are externalities).

Morale of the story? No "premine scam!" accusation with (linear emission curve and unlimited) inflation. Maybe inflation is not that bad. Opinions?
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 10, 2014, 12:08:18 PM
#44
on HyperLoan

can the loaner split the 10000 into two 5000 blocks?

10000 * 7.5 / 365 * 8.8 = 1,808.22 HYP
800 HYP over the 1000 cap

5000 * 7.5 / 365 * 8.8 = 904.11 HYP
but will gain weight so assume after a day
5000 * 7.5 / 365 * 9.8 = 1,006.85 HYP

or maybe loan to two persons 5000 HYP each instead

just sharing ideas  Smiley
The loaner should just loan. It's the borrower's responsability to do the rest.
Why?
  • Less work for the loaner. This may seem negligible if there is only one borrower, but it the experiment is successful, we will have several borrowers and then workload will increased significantly
  • The loaner shall not decide for the borrower
  • The borrower would learn how to optimise. Learning by doing. It would in turn encourage people to create tutorial, share hints... (which increased the community activity)
legendary
Activity: 1450
Merit: 1013
Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952
October 10, 2014, 06:59:54 AM
#43
I accidentally forgot that cycoinminer is not only the initiator of HyperLoan, he is also the initiation of HyperBank! I corrected the article according, quoting his proposal. I also addedd some extra pictures for a cartoonesque tardigrade.

Aigeezer, thank you for the suggestion. I'll ask presstab what he thinks of it. If you are new to HyperStake, I suggest you read http://hyperstake.wikia.com/ for further information.

Thanks. Yes, I got my first few thousand yesterday - only 190 hours to stake, he says, looking at his watch.    Wink

Looking at the wikia now. Everything seems very new, lots of stubs - early days - that's a good thing.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
October 10, 2014, 06:51:25 AM
#42
on HyperLoan

can the loaner split the 10000 into two 5000 blocks?

10000 * 7.5 / 365 * 8.8 = 1,808.22 HYP
800 HYP over the 1000 cap

5000 * 7.5 / 365 * 8.8 = 904.11 HYP
but will gain weight so assume after a day
5000 * 7.5 / 365 * 9.8 = 1,006.85 HYP

or maybe loan to two persons 5000 HYP each instead

just sharing ideas  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 09, 2014, 09:01:30 PM
#41
I accidentally forgot that cycoinminer is not only the initiator of HyperLoan, he is also the initiation of HyperBank! I corrected the article according, quoting his proposal. I also addedd some extra pictures for a cartoonesque tardigrade.

Aigeezer, thank you for the suggestion. I'll ask presstab what he thinks of it. If you are new to HyperStake, I suggest you read http://hyperstake.wikia.com/ for further information.
legendary
Activity: 1450
Merit: 1013
Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952
October 09, 2014, 08:50:23 PM
#40
Re the Barrier to Entry issue (potential large commitment needed to have a chance at staking) - would this be useful, perhaps in addition to other approaches? Tweak the algo to randomly allow staking at any/all levels, adjusting probability as desired, so that, for example, there is a tiny but finite chance of staking with a hoard of 1 HYP up to a close-to-certain chance of staking with a hoard of n (1500?) HYP or above.

Forgive me if this is an old idea - I didn't see it in my reading, but I'm new to HYP and may not be properly up to speed.

full member
Activity: 192
Merit: 100
October 09, 2014, 08:42:28 PM
#39
Hey can you please quit posting pictures of my mother? Thank you.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
October 09, 2014, 06:42:10 PM
#38
Very good post David. As is Hyperstake an experiment we can approach the HYPbank as one too. Perform a limited test run to see if even possible on a small scale and go from there.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 09, 2014, 05:46:58 PM
#37
Nice Cartonnish mascotte Smiley

PS: I know Cor2 from the SYNC thread, lets hope the Hyperbank turns into something good
This picture is not actually a cartoon. This is a real tardigrade under the microscope. A cartoon version would (blue or not) would be a nice exercise.

I don't know how I must understand this, since I don't know how SYNC performs or is handled.

Update: some cartoonish tardigrade in the middle of this video Tardigrades: Adorable Extremophiles. Now imagine them in blue.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
October 09, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
#36
Nice Cartonnish mascotte Smiley

PS: I know Cor2 from the SYNC thread, lets hope the Hyperbank turns into something good
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 09, 2014, 05:22:52 PM
#35
HyperStake continues expanding (##hyp-poker released, Hypberry on the way...) and climbing the marketcap ladder. One can rejoice, relax and enjoy, or can be proactive about the consequences. I prefer the latter.

HYP to the moon considered harmful
locohammerhead raised the first issue: barrier to entry
In turn, having a themable wallet make it easier to have a theme for children - remember what I said about learning? financial illiteracy is plaguing the modern world. Piggycoin was the first coin to try to address this topic and we believe that HyperStake with HyperSend could help raising awareness on sharing and saving - plus the ease of keeping track of spending thanks to the blockchain technology.

HyperBank would itself kill several birds with one stone. It would partially address the problem of “too big to stake” that I mentionned on the first section of this post and would help unwealthy adopters to step in - as well as, as a part of the HyperShield initiative, help securing HyperStake by increasing visibility, hence volume.
It is the combination of four ideas:
  • HyperBank proper (cycoinminer, iantunc and Cor2)
  • HyperLoan (cycoinminer)
  • Hypiggy, the children-friendly educative wallet (me)
  • Hyppi the tardi, a proposal for a mascot, both cute and resilient (me for the name, Crazyloaf for the tardigrade)

HyperBank
HyperBank helps to widen adoption and to increase the bounty wallet ("all benefits go to the community wallet", a not-for-profit bank, ^^).
I will just copy verbatim cycoinminer, iantunc and Cor2.
cycoinminer:
So, whilst I’ve been away on holiday for a few days, I’ve been thinking about HyperStake, and how we could build some more services around it.
One which came to mind would be HyperBank.

We all know that HyperStake offers us around 18% interest every 9 days, and looking over the statistics of late, HYP is keeping a pretty reasonably steady price.

What I’m proposing is to open HyperBank, offering owners of BTC the chance to share some of the high interest gains, without any of the risk.
HyperBank would operate a guaranteed return on investment of 2% every 10 days, for BTC deposited in the “bank”. With their investment, the Bank can invest this in HYP, and make a tidy profit from staking.

So, if you were to invest 1BTC in HyperBank today, then in 10 days time, you’d be paid back 1.02 BTC.

It could also open up the “Richlist” hoarders an opportunity to sell to the market, without flooding the market and causing a price crash.
iantunc:
Let's model the idea of HyperBank. It surely will increase visibility, at least at Poloniex. Every time an investor will try to allocate, for example, 5 BTC, a correlated buy order will drive the price and volume up. But after 10 days this investor will wait for his interest given back, e.g. 2%, or 5.1 BTC. At this moment the price will fall back to the mean, and an attempt to sell 5.1 BTC worth of HYP can fill all orders down the floor and even more. It will show up like pump & dump. It's very attractive for traders, but not so appreciated by investors. We need to find an equilibrium to satisfy both.
Cor2:
What I see at this moment is that even an order of 0.5 BTC causes a major price move (on Allcoin) although Polo has a bit more traffic but won't be able to sustain multiple-BTC orders without large price swings either.
What I feel is that such a bank should be similar to a savings account - you can deposit and start earning but not pull out unlimited at any time, so the bank has time to prepare for your withdrawal and does not need to emergency-sell positions.
Alternative would be that the bank is not transferring every incoming BTC to HYP and back, but there is a buffer, an investor group if you will
that has holds the HYP and gets funded from the BTC in the bank but they buffer the BTC, so the amount of HYP stays the same even though the amount of BTC fluctuates.
It would even be viable to keep half the BTC untouched as buffer while the other half gets converted to HYP as the market can absorb the changes, so that immediately withdrawal of BTC is possible up to half the total balance at any point, any more and the HYP first needs to get whittled down without crashing the market. Likewise with investment in BTC: the amount of HYP can slowly grow to half the amount of the extra BTC deposited. That means of the 18% staking rewards, virtually half is used, the other half is sitting unused in BTC buffer. But it could be an attractive bank anyway.
I am occasionally borrowing some BTC to an investor that makes 10% but can't buy BTC fast enough, so he gives me 5% to borrow my BTC for up to a week. That is a very attractive deal and very similar to this banking idea.
I readily recognize I did not understand everything here. Being a leader means recognizing when you need help from someone else, so I contacted Cor2, who is willing to help in setting this up. He and presstab understand better these aspects of finance than I do, so I will mainly be the “cheerleader” here (look for the mention of Larry Wall earlier in the HDJ for the side effect of this).

HyperLoan
This is cycoinminer’s idea, before HyperBank was even considered and I felt it would fit nicely in HyperBank.
Quote from: cycoinminer
The HyperLoan Experiment

Here a HyperStake, we’re looking to build community participation amongst our followers, so we’ve put together an opportunity for people to take part in what we’re calling the HyperLoan Experiment.

We’re offering to Loan one member of the community, 10,000 HYP, for the duration of 1 staking period (approximately 10-14 days)

Once the HYP has staked, we ask that you return the initial 10,000 HYP to us – YOU keep the interest!
What’s the catch? Well, to be eligible, there are a few things you’ll need to do for us.

We’d like you to at least do 2 or more of the following:

1.   Like the HyperStake Facebook page, and share it with your friends
https://www.facebook.com/hyperstake
2.   Come up with 5 HYP slogans, and periodically write them on Poloniex TrollBox
for example: “HYP – it’s hotter than my girlfriend”.....
3.   Help re-tweet the Twitter page https://twitter.com/HyperStake
4.   Actively visit and contribute to the IRC page - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=##hyperstake

We’ll also have specific promotions we’d like you, the community, to help us with over the coming weeks.
The HyperLoan Experiment is based totally on TRUST between followers. We’re well aware that one rogue member could walk away with the 10k HYP and never be seen again, but we’re hoping that won’t happen. To that extent, we’ll also have a “Wall of Fame” on the ANN showing which members have successfully taken part in the HyperLoan Experiment!

We have a couple of criteria that you MUST have met in order to be eligible:
1.   Your Bitcointalk activity must be 50 or higher
2.   You must have positively posted on the HyperStake ANN on, or before 15th September.

Each time we have the 10,000 HYP available for loaning, we will take the top 5 followers who we believe, in our opinion have been actively promoting Hyperstake the most, and from these 5, we will randomly pick someone to loan the HYP to.

In order to comply with Bitcointalk rules, anyone who posts their HYP address on the thread will automatically be excluded for consideration for the HyperLoan. In fact, we don’t need anyone’s address until we’ve chosen the initial receiver of the loan – so if you’re chosen, we’ll ask you for your HYP address.

To have yourself considered for the HyperLoan, send a private message to my username, Cycoinminer, along with examples of your promotions, and between myself and Presstab / David Latapie, we’ll judge who’s helped promote Hyperstake the most during the time period.

We will give out our first HyperLoan on Wednesday 1st October.

Be our first participant – get promoting HyperStake NOW!
With an additional Wall of Shame for rogue members.

Hypiggy
Hypiggy, the child/educational version of HyperStake
Hypiggy is really “Piggycoin, HyperStake edition”, thanks to a themable wallet and hopefully a simpler interface. At the time of writing, this is particularly speculative, because I have no idea if it is possible to hide certain features and to automate coin control. Even if it is not possible to automate it, it is not much of an issue: staking performance will be lower than the full experience, that’s all. Performance is not the goal of Hypiggy; education and adoption is.

Hyppi the tardi
The blue cartonnish mascotte
Crazyloaf was the first to propose a tardigrade. The water bear is a tiny animal which is both cute (looks like puffy baby/walking duvet), alien-looking and incredibly resilient when in cryptobiosis mode. Cuteness matters for a mascot, alien-looking definitely qualify for SF-themed HyperStake and one can say that HyperStake price is incredibly resilient!
Now imagine it in blue (like the 5th Element’s Diva).




As you can see, we are continuing to innovate with HyperStake but now with a focus on preparing a possibly more challenging future.
Commander DavidLatapie, over!
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 03, 2014, 03:39:53 PM
#34
I believe that a sizeable part of my readership here is in HyperStake for more than "just more BTC". I hope you will like this short essay of mine.

United we stand, divided we fall - the coming rise of cryptofiat

I just wrote it straight in one hour so there is probably room for improvement. Anyway, inputs appreciated.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 02, 2014, 04:41:09 AM
#33
HYP has two protections against dumps:
- (very) high-stake
- PoS-only, which prevents instadump

Granted, if Cryptsy accepts HYP, their autosell feature could lend people to instadump thanks to HyperSend/S4C. One more reason why I don't like Craptsy.

So I am completely happy having HYP PoS only, and would have it no other way. Not only is it safer, but it also gets rid of the ability to mine and instadump. For HYP, you need to either buy and dump, or buy-stake-dump. I like that model quite a lot, it seems to have good traction in the market so far on the supply side.

Also, as Presstab mentioned it on the CrazySteak Journal, "HYP has about 6 devs working on it at the moment [...] not to mention the friendly exchange of new code between HBN and HYP." Having several devs, and spread over several timezones, helps a lot.

(my, this one was short!)
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
October 02, 2014, 03:33:00 AM
#32
social high PoS coin
http://www.cryptoclubz.com/ Although much help is needed in appearance and promotion, or maybe even business plan.

Tipping with DOGE is a one time affair, but tipping with HYP will allow the gift to compound just like the ideas Smiley
Particularly if the bot can stake (so far, only Unik has a staking bot).
hero member
Activity: 763
Merit: 534
September 30, 2014, 09:12:00 PM
#31
Feeling tHYPsy?

Oooooooo. I like it! Grin I think HYP can lead the way as the social high PoS coin of choice since it's larger number of coins and low-ish price can allow for a real sense of numerical growth. It also is a good representation of the enduring value of good online content and ideas. Content may only be posted once, but the value grows from that single bit of effort in creation as more and more people read, learn, share, and enjoy the content. Tipping with DOGE is a one time affair, but tipping with HYP will allow the gift to compound just like the ideas Smiley
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