Topic: I don't like this stable price! - page 4. (Read 991 times)

it's even worse because consumers have incentives to use credit cards over bitcoin: credit cards protect them. bitcoin doesn't.

with credit cards, if a merchant even hints they're going to screw you on damaged or defective goods or services not rendered, you can just charge back and easily recover your money.

then there's cash back, frequent flyer miles, etc. it's tough to compete with that.

I actually can see it happen at some point in the future. It will however come down to how well the lightning network functions, and how the current routing problems will be taken care of.

Bitcoin as decentralized protocol will never be able to overtake the usability and convenience that fiat offers, but we can definitely expect a tremendous improvement making it catch up on fiat more than central banks are comfortable with.

At the end of the day, people should be using that what gets the job done in the most efficient way. For some that will be fiat, and others really need that what Bitcoin has to offer, especially in third world countries.

Neither do I, didnt really see a reason to spend out my BTC just for a thing that i can easily purchase with fiat since we do have in mind that BTC is more worth to be hold on.

Anything is possible with bitcoins price even its already unbelievable to got below into that price points there would be always a tendency yet theres no such bottom price when it comes to it.
We can somehow conclude some stuffs because we have seen theres a strong support on 6k but that isnt a guaranteed thing.

This is a good signs that we need to focus on for now, and for those have the proper understanding on zero risk its time to build a confident ways to handle your trading motivations. Even though stable price doesn't actually raising faster increase in the market value, still we see progress between digital and fiat exchanges eventually synced in and out. That's merely a good signs to visualize for further profitable changes.

ha no $3k or $1500 is not gonna happen. I don't know why anyone would think that would happen. The market has been very clear all year that $6000 is the bottom and any price below that is unacceptable to the market. $6000 is the firmly established bottom of the market, if you want $3000 or $1500 you should have bought the first half of last year.

The price of Bitcoin isn't stable, it is just in the relatively stable phase as it transitions between bear and bull market. This is normal and to be expected. The bear market has ended, the bull market won't begin for a bit longer (maybe by end of this year), so in between the bear and bull forces are cancelling each other out and we get a fairly stable price at the bottom of the market before the next long incoming bull run begins.

I don't know if that's true or not.  If a merchant is using a payment processor like Bitpay, the processor converts the bitcoin payment into fiat immediately so that the merchant never has to deal with the volatility risk.  Merchants don't particularly want to own bitcoin; they want fiat, and understandably so.  For one thing, I would imagine it makes doing the bookkeeping a lot easier than it would be if they held onto crypto.

You said it better than I did.  The point is that bitcoin doesn't really need to be stable for it to function as a currency, at least not from a merchant's standpoint.  But for the customer who owns it, there's always a potential opportunity cost associated with spending bitcoin--you risk spending a currency that could dramatically increase in value the minute you spend it, and you lose out on the profits you could have made.  I think that's what's keeping a lot of folks from spending crypto.

I fully agree.  I'd have a hard time convincing myself to spend bitcoin for something I could just as easily buy with fiat.  For me, bitcoin has always been for keeping.  Cash is for spending.

Most retailers that sell in Bitcoins automatically exchange BTC fro fiat money. There are plenty of such services. So they carry zero risk.

Interesting. I see your point, but I was considering the case in which retailers have to deal with customer returns on the daily. For example, Amazon. It's nowhere near their interest to use Bitcoin in my opinion because they'll need to deal with returns as well as selling small items. When it comes to small items, the profits can be so tiny that even the fluctuations in BTC can end up being a devastating loss for them in the long run. When profit margins are so small, isn't there a caution to be taken with accepting Bitcoin?

I might be looking at too much of a narrow subset of retailers, but in general, when companies deal with returns, it's in their best interest in giving the customer a reason to come back to shop with them again. In this case, if a retailer takes the motto of "the customer is always right," then I could see a decent amount of people trying to exploit this for their own good, using the fluctuations in prices of BTC to their advantage.

I do see the issues that customers would have with it, but in general, I don't think customers worry about larger retailers and stores scamming them of their money -- that only really happens with smaller one-to-one exchanges.

Again, I may be thinking of a completely different scenario, so thanks for bringing your point to light for clarity again!

It's absolutely superb for retailers - no chargebacks, permanent settlement within an hour or so and can be accepted worldwide. It's consumers who have no incentive to use it at all. Retailers would have to heavily discount to entice non believers and the margins aren't there in most areas.

If you think Bitcoin is ever at a stable price, you're in for a surprise. Take a look at the stock market. In comparison to Bitcoin's growth and falls, the stock market is as sturdy as a rock even through a majority of the recent gains and drops. I think retailers and wholesalers are smart. They understand that Bitcoin will never be truly stable, and that's why they're nervous about getting into it. Most people who accept Bitcoin are probably individual's self-made businesses. 



I mean, I expected it to become an every-day currency for the things I did, and to an extent it worked well for that (buying/selling goods and services online, on steam, etc.). However, for the general public, I doubt it would work out. I agree that there will always be something about BTC that retailers will find to deny working with it.

The plain truth is we are not even close to the point where we will get to have any serious stability yet and maybe after mainstream adoption, we may begin to start seeing the possibility of it. We are still in the early phase, and even though the market has been moving sideways for a while, that just shows a market that is trying to find a direction.

I guess from the break out we just had, we would not need a soothsayer to tell you afterwards, which one way or the other, the market will always tends to pick a direction. At this point, I do not think there would be a possibility of a pull back to that extent, at least, getting the market to close weekly above $7k should be a good sign and if we peradventure scale through $8500 to $8800, then we may see the possibility of attaining something higher before the end of the year.

Bitcoin price isn't always stable since it's inception. Until there is a hype now way it can become stable.

Since that is the scenario, we are the one who have to adjust for it. Why there are merchants accepts crypto even the price is volatile? Why there are people who are into crypto that still use crypto in some of the service? Why other countries legalized bitcoin? These kind of question is enough for you to understand that even with the volatile price of bitcoin, an increase in adoption can always take place as there are lots of reasons why people used bitcoin even how volatile it was.

You just have to trust the process.

I don't know who are these people who're speculating absurd things about bitcoins touching such low levels, these people I feel have associated bitcoins with those shit alt coins which experiences such dumps. I don't think bitcoins and stability to hand in hand, and even a novice trading in bitcoins knows it can never be stable, I don't think anyone cares whether the wholesale people come in or no, as you cannot expect bitcoins to be a subsitute for your daily currency, it's prices are never going to be stable enough for that. Also it's pertinent to note that adoption in bitcoins has always been high irrespective of the stability, network fees or the fud, it's value has kept on increasing.

tired of stability eh?

12 hours after the OP: price spikes 20% on bitfinex in less than 2 hours.

we broke out past $7430, so that's the first higher high we've seen since the crash last year. i know there's some weird stuff happening fundamentally with bitfinex, but in my experience, these technical breakouts don't get ignored.

if bitcoin was only for "speculation and trading" then its price would have declined down to that $100 by now because in that decline there is a lot of profit to be made by "speculators and traders". but as you can see that is not happening, why? because bitcoin has another usage and that is being a decentralized, boarder-less, censorship resistance currency and that gives it its value.

you can check the market reaction last year (for example prior to August) when fees were rising ridiculously high, scaling solutions were being rejected and bitcoin was losing its "currency" aspect because of that. price was declining and couldn't rise. and as soon as scaling solution moved ahead and there was hope for bitcoin staying a currency and having a better future as a currency with things like LN the price started rising up again and we saw ATH.

Because they really didn't understand that when bitcoin's price goes from $0.1-$100 it has become more of a store of value and a speculative asset and now its pretty obvious as the price literally goes to the roof specially in 2017. There's a whole lot of debate whether bitcoin is a currency or store of value, but I'm leaning towards the latter because just because this is what I'm been witnessing in the last 2-3 years. Well I'm been using bitcoin as medium of exchange for quite some time but its becoming more appealing to those investors as it provides a viable instrument to get away from hyperinflation or even capital controls.

anybody who has been speculating this, has no idea how a market works. and many of them have confused bitcoin with pump and dump shitcoins. they look at them and see they are pumping from $100 to $1500 then fall back down to $100 and think bitcoin should do the same missing out on the biggest difference which is utilities that bitcoin is providing and the "real" adoption that it has versus the only usage of those shitcoins which is speculation and pump and dump.

wrong.
the reason why it will never happen is the "real demand" that bitcoin has.
the stability right now is only showing the accumulation phase https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/accumulationphase.asp

wrong again. we have seen adoption growth both during the most volatile times and the most stable times alike. in fact one of the main reasons why bitcoin price shoots up fast and big is exactly because of that adoption!
as an example you can take a look at the large scale merchant adoption in Japan last year when they accepted bitcoin as a "legal way of payment" and then removed taxes on it too. that led to a huge price rise and the rise led to more adoption and more rises.

All these guys saying all the time how "we need a stable price to increase adoption" get exposed when the price is actually stable, but guess what, people keep using bitcoin mostly as a gold alternative, which means we must put store of value as number one priority.

I haven't studied this data deeply but I would like to see some correlation charts of periods of time of stable price and % increase of use in retail. I would guess that there's no correlation at all because as I said, people will hoard bitcoin regardless and keep using fiat which is the deprecating asset.

For bitcoin to replace fiat it needs to become everything, people must think in terms of bitcoin and not dollars, euros or whatnot. We are still far from that, but we don't really need to get there to see massive price increases.

Sorry but if somebody changes from BTC to USD because of 2% Profit generated by banks he never understood the intention of bitcoin.
Bitcoin is a POW coin not a proof of stake, where you get reward. The "reward" is that its getting harder to find some so its more expensive to create new BTC. So there always will be a price for hash and indirectly for bitcoin.

Price stability sounds good. Waiting for the next mass adoption.
We are just at the beginning. Its 10years now.
WWW was invented in 1989 by CERN so we are in 1999 now.
Just imagine you are online with a 56k modem paying per kb Data. Thats where we are now. 

"The price is unpredictable, there's an active disincentive for people to spend it, it's hard to secure."
-Sounds like surfing the www in 1999 

" I just can't see them buying their tampons with it. "
-Yeah not really possible buying tampons online in 1999. But today you have amazon. So in future they will use a payment channel to buy their tampons if needed. 

Looked at entirely unemotionally, Bitcoin is basically a really crappy idea for any kind of commerce. The price is unpredictable, there's an active disincentive for people to spend it, it's hard to secure.

The use case that can't be matched by anything else is its incorruptible nature, portability and fixed supply. That's more than enough for a significant chunk of the world's population to want to sink some money into it. I just can't see them buying their tampons with it.