Topic: "I don't vote"... "it's beneath me"?? - page 2. (Read 2740 times)

It is crucially important to understand that modern electoral democracy has nothing to do with freedom.  Instead, all this "voting" stuff is actually guaranteed to be limiting people's freedom more and more over time.

The government-controlled media and education are trying to brainwash you into believing that democracy is all about freedom, but that's only because the government simply tries to legitimize itself through this illusion of being controlled by the people.


This might sound strange coming from an anarchist, but authoritarian monarchy can provide much more freedom than electoral democracy (subject to fair competition, which includes unlimited migration AND right to secede), simply because the Supreme Leader wouldn't have to bribe the average public.


Our protest is going far beyond avoiding elections.  It also includes avoiding many other government-imposed bullshit, such as taxes, military service, licensing, censorship, prohibition, etc.


Of course they should, but it would not look exactly like you imagine it.  Certainly, they would not vote, but rather act in order to spend their worth on influencing status quo as much as possible.


Oh really?  Then I am happy enough to be a serious business person, if I am able to choose most of these things for myself.  But some years ago my older neighbors couldn't do so, because USSR decided virtually everything for them.  I guess it's still pretty much this way in North Korea, you can go and see yourself how many serious businesses are there.  Let me guess exactly one.


You, on the other hand, seem to underestimate the importance of a person deciding himself what he (and only he) thinks.


I'd say we can't, as nobody can.  There is no such things moral high-ground, for all morals are derived from practical necessity, which is for our species to survive and adapt to the environment through evolution, which in turn implies variation and natural selection. Variation is anarchy, natural selection is capitalism.  See now?  It all derives from biology.  It's not a matter of opinion, it's fact.

so basically what you're saying is that all the special interest lobby groups and their funding of congressmen and presidential candidates... that's the right way to do it?

Will

A lot of people don't vote, but instead spend their time and energy educating and influencing others how to vote. There's only so much time and energy out there, and sometimes it's more effective used one way vs. another.

I believe we've already been over this; around the same time I asked if you believed it was moral for the state to kill and rob and you'd said, "Yes," to which I called you a sociopathic proxy killer but you didn't understand how someone who believed killing the innocent was moral through supporting the institution which enacts on that force could possibly be a sociopath

I don't know who believes in the things you mentioned personally, but I'm sure the logic follows as two choices for the same thing is not a real vote.  At some point in time, you realize that a voiced vote is meaningless without someone to hear it, whereas a monetary vote (that is, denying money to a service you disagree with) means THE ENTIRE WORLD to that which you're 'voting' for.  Keep this in mind.

Now, let's look at an issue that does not necessarily pertain to government: lets say you really don't like Walmart.  You hate Walmart so much that you decide you will vote against it.  To accomplish this, you voice your opinion to Walmart and pray to your respective deity that they listen to your request--you can even get a coalition to send Walmart voiced opinions about their practices, you could get half the nation on your side--but ultimately, it is up to Walmart to say, "Yeah okay we'll act on your decision," or "No thanks but we'll keep doing what we're doing."  They have the ability to do this because votes of this kind make no change in the physical world; if people continue to buy from Walmart, they will continue to thrive.  A vote of this sort changes nothing.

However: lets say, instead of voting against Walmart by expressing your complaints to them, you instead decide you will no longer fund their actions.  Lets say you convince half of Walmart's entire user base to stop buying from Walmart.  Walmart, unable to keep its doors open, is forced to close down at least some of its stores.  The change you wanted in the world came to fruition, not because your vote was a measly opinion up for consideration, but because you physically altered the existence of the entity for which you sought an end.  Here, we clearly see the difference between a voiced opinion (e.g., a vote), and an action.

Which is all fine and dandy, you might say.  Except when it comes to government, for the second method I mentioned is, literally, illegal.

But returning to the point: to vote with one's voice, or one's ballot, is a pointless practice, which can serve only as an admission, consciously or not, that the voter is indeed in support of an immoral system, in which we are expected to be controlled and to control others, except--and here's the kicker--it is not us who enacts on that control, but a central entity, who is above the very law it creates (of course, based, or not based, on our opinions on how they should run.)  If we acknowledge the idea that the only thing limiting the government is a piece of paper (which is ignored quite often, especially in recent years, thus showing how a constitution, just like a vote, can make no physical change in the real world,) then not only do we see just how rigged the game is (see: Obama and Romney's campaigning budget), but to participate is to acknowledge that one's right to make an actual change in the world is forfeit for one's ability to convince someone else to make an actual change in the world.  A true vote is made with one's dollar.  When the government has guaranteed your vote through force, why bother pretending your opinion matters?

And I'm certain there are several other reasons not to vote but this seems like it gets to the heart of the matter.

If your government is as incompetent as you say, i'm surprised you haven't overthrown it already -- sound like it would be child's play to you.  BTW, learn how magnetz work.  Though spinning HDs indeed use magnetic recording, it's pretty safe to say that putting a magnet next to your 'puter box won't even corrupt the data, much less destroy it.  Don't listen to stupid people spreading silly lies.  If you need to decommission a HD, do it with a nailgun through the HD platters -- that's relatively secure.

The point of dying in a revolution is twofold:  It causes damage to your enemy & galvanized your supporters.  But only if you do it right.  I'm obviously not suggesting you do it -- it's unlikely that you will & i'll probably miss out on the drama anyhow.  

And one person saying "go fuck yourself" is simply cause for more finger-pointin' & lulz if said person gets his wheeener chopped off 'coz he took a stand & didn't vote

having the majority decide the rules for everyone?  No thanks.  DD is imo a worse idea than what we currently have.

So many reasons why it's pointless, I'm not sure where to start.   My one vote wouldn't have made a difference where I live, politicians just want to start debt bubbles whichever side they are on, they all want to make property more expensive, they both increase the size and scope of the state to increase their power, I could go on and on...

They all lie to me and my life hasn't been appreciably different under one party than another.  

It's all too much like voting for which cult leader I want to have rule me.  They don't wear all the robes and shit that rulers in the past did but it's still downright creepy cult behaviour.  I just prefer not to have anything to do with it.

EDIT:  oh and I don't want to endorse all the killing they do in other countries.

The problem isn't when you don't choose, you either believe in freedom of choice and expression or you don't, go complaining to me about voting when they've got some choices I actually want, even if I knew the odds I'd still vote for a Libertarian or Pirate MP but the system isn't going to let me. As for being a hopeless optimist you really haven't considered the scenario of a Bitcoin crackdown have you? The knowledge politicians and government employees have about computers and technology is so pathetic that they can't even text without fucking it up completely so seeing them try to attack Bitcoin is going to be hilarious. So what if they try and storm my house to get at the Bitcoins? By the time they even get through the door I'll have put a magnet to it or torched it. Even if they were quick enough to get to my computer and confiscate everything they'd still need my password and I could put all sorts in there to mess with them. Better yet, to piss them off even further, you could organise beforehand having a server in a country that isn't politically friendly to whichever government wants to confiscate the worthless and volatile bits of data and just transfer it to that if you're forewarned of them coming.

As for dying in a revolution? What's the point in that? If you can beat an enemy without even fighting them that's a far bigger victory and you get to enjoy the spoils, you need to go and read some Sun Tzu, so yeah, I'm feeling pretty confident and happy about where I'm going in life right now. if I prefer not to take part in a rigged democratic election then that shouldn't bother you if it's as wonderful as people like you make it out to be shouldn't it? Why does one person saying "go fuck yourself" matter?

The problem is when you don't choose, one of the two is certain to happen nonetheless.  Placed in your unfortunate situation, i'd vote for surprise butsecs.


For such a cynic, you're a hopeless optimist.  If there's one thing that governments know how to do, it's collecting taxes.  They had millennia in which to sharpen their skilz, they're god level.  UR a noob.  Wake up, it's morning.


...and since it's not important enough for you to move, you don't, and things go on just as they are.  In the past, revolutionaries did more than pick up and move -- they gave their lives for their ideals.  You don't even  want to load a truck.


I dunno.  How's holding your breath & pouting working out for you?  New freedomz any time soon?