Topic: I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously - page 12. (Read 5717 times)

I don't know what you would do in case you lost your seed words, but I sure won't carry them with me in my pocket or wallet everywhere I go.
Even if I somehow I lose them I would notice this and use backup option to recover and send my coins to wallet I control, but I would do this the same day or few days after.
It's not like I would wait weeks or months to recover my coins, and it's always possible he never created any additional backup, that is expected from someone who carries seed words with them.

Government parasites can't charge you any tax for something they don't know you (temporary) own... just sayin, I am not your tax advisor.

I think many of the laws are not working in real life, especially stuff coming out recently.
I mean they are trying to legalize taking away land from farmers, and if that is not some new communism I don't know what is, all done legaly.
Pay taxes, obey the law, and don't think with your head... government is taking ''care'' of you.

In Spain you should give it to the Mayor of the city where you found the paper wallet and, after two years, if nobody claims it, it would be returned to you so it would be yours. In the case you don't do it, it would suppose a crime of "misappropriation". (This figure is 133 years old )

There is also the figure of "theft by finding" in Spain, but they are different: "misappropriation" means that you don't give the found object back, while "theft by finding" means that you materially displace the found object from the owner's domain to the domain of the appropriator. To be charged with "theft by finding", you should move the Bitcoins to a different wallet whose keys you own; at least in my country it works that way, and maybe there too. So check the law or hire a lawyer to advise you before taking the advise of another member with no legal experience.

We have similar laws: it just means that when you find something, it's not automatically yours. I think there's a 1 year time limit here for the owner to show up.

I think that you are overly confident in others' knowledge. The transaction to itself is a clever solution, I won't deny that, but I do expect some will only notice something is wrong if their funds are missing.
On the other hand, I also expect most people don't keep duplicates of the paper wallet, maybe not even duplicate of the address for watching its content online. The truth is that the chances of finding the real owner are not great.

Wow, that's one hell of a law--in a silly, brainless way I mean.  I'm not dissing Australia, mind you, because there are just too many laws worldwide and way too many that don't make sense.

What's been said is true.  Nobody could verify ownership unless they produced an identical seed word list/private key without first seeing yours, and if they knew what they were doing they would have already imported that key into a wallet and transferred the funds, thereby making the paper wallet you found useless.

I've read the suggestions about trying to return the funds and find the owner of the wallet...but personally I wouldn't even bother.  You'd be opening yourself up to all kinds of security risks and hassles from who knows how many people.  IMO it'd be better to just quietly move those coins to your own wallet (after learning a little more about bitcoin).

I doubt the cops would ever find out if you just used the funds on the wallet you found.  In crypto, it's basically finders-keepers in situations like this.  But man, I do admire your honesty!

OP frankly speaking, your story is technical and confusing me. You said, you did not know or have no idea on bitcoin or Wallet but from your discovery of the paper wallet, you noticed that it contained 0.6 BTC which you confirmed that it is bitcoin from the first sight, as for only that statement indicate that you have an idea on BTC because someone that does not know BTC would recognized it unless he or she asked someone that knows Cryptocurrencies or if you don't Know it, you would have left it behind as other passerbys did. But you were fully aware that it was BTC that is why you picked it.
That is not withstanding, there is no way you can see the owner of the wallet. Because probably the owner had been looking for it all this while but no avail. And the only way the owner of the wallet can found it is for you to go the local Radio Station and make the announcement for the lost wallet. And I don't think you have money to pay the media unless the media will not take money from you. Since you have brought it here, I advise you to do that. I do not think, the wallet was stolen but was lost from the owner.

Disagree. By far the most likely way that these coins will be recovered is simply by the owner realizing their paper wallet is missing and accessing a different back up to move the coins. If you move them to a new address, then you completely prevent this from happening.

If you want to move the coins so the owner notices something is wrong, then sending them back to the same address is the best option. Add in an OP_RETURN output as mentioned above if you feel life it.

If easternklaas is unsure about how to do that, then he can simply share the address here and someone else can create the necessary transaction (send all coins back to the same address and add an OP_RETURN output which directs to this thread) which would just require him to sign and broadcast.

+1
If OP can properly set up a cold storage (maybe with Tails?) it would be much better to move the coins to a new address, so the owner has a better chance to notice something is wrong.
And after some more months, if no "proper owner" emerges (who can sign a new message, we all know the drill), the OP can see what he will do, even donate those bitcoins.

You can always ask for more information or more detailed instructions (after first web-searching the matter - let me sneak in a recommendation not to use Google, since it gives you more scam, spam and sponsored results than privacy-oriented search engines).
This (sub-)board especially, is full of knowledgeable people who would most definitely be held accountable for giving you misleading or even malicious instructions. Do keep in mind to keep as much as possible about this topic in this thread and not moving stuff to DMs; that's where things can go sketchy due to them simply not being transparent.

If you really want to give to charities (but do your research and ask here if in doubt); a bunch of them accept Bitcoin donations by now. That way there would be no need to cash out and potentially pay taxes on it out of your pocket.

But as others said before, there's not really any rush to spend those coins. You can do a few copies of it just to be safe, and keep them for years.

Honestly, it's not as unreliable as you may think.

I remember this thread by Loyce:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/test-writing-mistakes-please-write-down-these-private-keys-for-me-5363240

You could try creating ads about having found a paper wallet on social media and maybe some online communities that are popular in Victoria, Australia. I assume that many cities have online communities where you can find local news, events happening in your community, local sales threads, ads for local businesses, and things like that. I know several such places where I live and it's not uncommon for people to post they found a wallet, a pair of sunglasses, ID cards, credit cards, and many other physical items. If you are lucky, the person who lost it could be browsing the same sites.   

OK, I understand that, but it's not common for probably the majority of people to dedicate a computer to be permanently offline. A TAILS boot media is safe and trustworthy enough for me for such a task and more practical. YMMV...

OK, while doable, manual handwriting to copy such data is quite error prone. You'd have to verify very thoroughly no error has been introduced in the manual copy. As I think about it, I likely would copy it by hand, too.

There's no easy answer to your dilemma and there's a lot to debate. A Private Key gives you technically the ability to move the coins that are "controlled" by that particular Private Key. Does this automatically grant you ownership of those coins. I doubt that. Think of the analogy if you find a key of a foreign house. I believe the majority of legal systems won't allow you to use the key to legally enter the house and take possession of values therein.
You have almost no verifiable way to determine if the legit owner of the paper wallet is still in possession of the Private Key that you found, except if he or someone else who has a copy of the Private Key moves the coins or signs a message with the Private Key (the latter is possible but wouldn't make much sense in this context). If I were the legit owner of the paper wallet, I would move the coins immediatelly should I discover that I lost the paper wallet or someone else has it, as long as I can do it.

If I were you and with the mindset of an honest finder, I would do the following (I am in the comfortable position to have enough Bitcoin knowledge to do all by myself):

• Publish the Public Address of the paper wallet at places like here, no further details that might be suitable to identify a legit owner of it; pay attention not to expose details to compromise your identity
• Make a verifiably correct manual copy of the Private Key to prevent degradation of the original paper wallet (store safely!)
• Make a transaction of the paper wallet's coins to the same Public Address of the paper wallet and add an output to the transaction like this:
  OP_RETURN "See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408263.40"
  (A move by someone else, not by the owner, should alarm the legit owner enough if he cares to look for it. But it's no guarantee to trigger the owner to check in a reasonable time frame.)
• HODL... and save a story for my children or grandchildren, it will be a good one, anyway how the outcome will be!
• If I've done necessary steps to comply with rules for a finder and those rules grant me partly or in total ownership of my finding should no legit owner show up usually within some defined time frame governed by law, I would claim the coins after enough time has passed.
  (I wouldn't hand over the Private Key to others as they could steal the coins should they be corrupt, not honest, underpaid, whatever the dark side offers for them. My faith in officials is partly deteriorated...
• You do you!

Yeah, I know, that sounds too good to be true. Don't tempt me, haha. As we hope for rising Bitcoin exchange rates, there'll be enough temptations in the future... stay humble!

Didn't really think about that.. might be a cool souvenir and a cool story to tell my grandkids ... of the day I found something that sparked an educational sojourn down a rabbit hole I've not been down before,... to be rediscovered in my old age......

... or do I tell them a different story?

I should have been more clear.: When I use the word airgapped, without exception I mean permanently airgapped. A computer without an internet connection temporarily is not airgapped.

I wouldn't make a digital copy. I'd simply copy the private key to a second piece of paper in case something happens to the original.

In that case, I would do nothing. As suchmoon says, the real owner might try to move the coins at any point between now and decades in to the future. You cannot assume the coins are lost just because that paper wallet goes unclaimed.

As far as I remember eg. in my country you don't inherit ownership of something that you found. You are obliged to make it at least possible for the legit owner to get his stuff back, e.g. bring it to the police or lost and found offices. At those lost and found offices you can get your finding registered and if no legit owner collects his stuff after a year of waiting time you can claim it and become a legit owner of your finding. If you find money or stuff of value you can claim a certain percentage of the value even if the legit owner shows up. But I don't know the specific terms and rules for that. I guess it's kind of an incentive for finders to comply and bring lost stuff into the lost and found offices.

That's at least what more or less is expressed in law. Of course people can choose not to oblige. As long as there's no witness or officials or judge, there's not much that can or will happen if you don't comply.
You collect bad karma... You decide if you go to the dark side or the light side of life. Remember your choice when you have lost something yourself which you'd like to get back.

Gotcha. Thx LoyceV




I'm leaning toward this idea, thx NotATether



m2017 I agree,.. I will give it until the end of the month

---

Should I be unable to locate the original owner after having exhausted all efforts to do so, within my capabilities....
* I don't know/trust anyone in my friend circle who can assist in such endeavor's, nor would I be confident enough undertaking many of the processes identified by the knowledgeable folk here who have offered their advice.

Wouldn't burn it or give to the police. Give it to some poor people? I have a number of charities that I know could use the coin better than I would.  My main concern would be how to monetise the btc without having to give 30% to the tax man.

---

Mod note: Merged posts, cleaned up quoting

The point is that we don't know for sure if the original owner lost the keys completely or just one copy thereof. It's not like physical cash, which if unclaimed can be reasonably assumed to be lost after a certain period of time.

For example the original owner may not be aware that one copy of their key is missing, or may think that it was destroyed. Sloppy, yes, but they might still be hodling another copy of the key thinking to cash out when Bitcoin hits $1m. So I don't think there is any time limit as to when this wallet can be assumed to be lost.

First time I heard of term theft by finding, and it's not like you find some identification documents or picture of a person, but I guess you could put an ad and say you found a plastic card with words and you are looking for original owner.
If someone calls you back, they should identify at least five or ten words from this cards in reasonable amount of time, without looking at card image, but don't go in any meetings alone.
Don't mention anything about Bitcoin, or you will get a bunch of fake owners and scammers calling you.

Let's say few weeks and months pass and nothing happens.
Would you simply burn the words, give it to police, or maybe give it to some poor people?
There is always possible scenario of someone finding private keys of satoshi coins, any many other keys for inactive coins could be find by other people, so I don't see any difference with lost coins.
Lost keys = Lost keys.

To further increase the chances of owner noticing the thread, I'd spend the output to the same address with a proper OP_RETURN note saying:

It'd come as an instant notification to their wallet whenever they decided to open it. If they have a backup, they will immediately send the funds back to one of their wallets. If they don't, they'll try to convince they're those who owned it.

However, if there isn't sufficient evidence, such as a writing style or possible lack of color, which are things you haven't revealed to us (and should not!), the real owner won't be able to convince you. If I were you, after all, I'd keep it in the same way I'd keep cash found on the street.

In order to check the 'balance' of this paper wallet; no matter whether it's a 24- or 12-word seed phrase or a single private key with a public key next to it, you can check it in a secure way using Tails OS.
If I was you, I'd boot a computer using a Tails live USB stick, import the seed or private key (whatever it is) into the preinstalled Electrum wallet and get its actual addresses.

In case of a seed phrase, it can deterministically generate private keys and derive public keys or addresses from those. In that case, generate like 100 of them and write them down.
If it's just a single-key paper wallet with just one private key, it's easier since there will be just one address (actually 3; one of each address type).

Then shut it down, boot into your regular, internet-enabled OS, install Tor Browser, visit a blockchain explorer of your choice and enter those addresses you noted down.

If it is bitcoinpaperwallet(dot)com it depends when the paper wallet was created. This site used and still uses a clever folding scheme for their paper wallet print templates.

After the original creator Canton Becker of this website sold it approx. by the end of 2018, the new owner(s) now scam you. Any paper wallet created on this current scam website uses predeterministic private keys known to the website owner even when the site pretends that you generate some sort of entropy (you don't!). Any more or less decent amount of coins will vanish from recently created paper wallets from this scam website! DO NOT USE IT, if that's not yet clear enough!

@easternklaas: you should check if the public address of the paper wallet which should also be printed on the paper wallet does still hold any coins. If it doesn't there's not much left to discuss here, except for the interesting ethical topic. As block explorers I recommend mempool.space or bitcoinexplorer.org, but others like btc.bitaps.com or blockchair.com are OK, too.

Not entirely sure if you did that already...
BTW, nice to see that you do your own research.

---

Airgapped is not enough, it should stay airgapped forever until erased. Use TAILS in offline-mode as it forgets any data, unless you use persistant storage. An offline copy of bitaddress.org script in TAILS should be OK to check everything needed (use Walletdetails on that page, works offline).

A safe usually digital copy is not an easy task. Smartphones are not appropriate for this. If the paper wallet is still readable why bother. If you can't 100% trust any device used for the copy process, you put the paper wallet to risk of theft by others.

Yep, I would post the public address, too.

Indeed, it's not uncommon there's some handwriting on the paper wallet, hopefully it wasn't with water soluble ink and some or all of it is still preserved and visible.

@easternklaas should not post any physical details of this paper wallet anymore for that reason as already said by others.