I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously - page 3.

m2017

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 29, 2023, 02:50:20 AM

Quote from: gunhell16 on January 29, 2023, 01:03:14 AM

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario?

It wasn't theft because there were no bitcoins at all. It's a scam attempt in disguise designed to make you lose your money instead.

It's a question of what is the moral thing to do if such a thing happened for real. That's where the community has different opinions. Some wouldn't do a thing because it's not their coins. Others would "give" the original owner some time and then sweep the coins to one of their addresses. But the owner doesn't even know that the clock is ticking. Some users would try to warn the owner that their keys are compromised by depositing a small sum and then withdrawing it showing they have access to the private keys...

The answer to the question from a moral point of view, the person who found paper wallet will have a difference depending on whether he has morality or not. Some will take bitcoin for themselves (immediately or after a while), others will try to tell the owner to move it. It seems to me that on this forum, most of the users will lean towards the second, because, as I think, the majority here are decent and highly moral people. I have such an opinion.

A small inconsistency. The method by which people who have gained access to the wallet may not work if the wallet owner doesn't check the balance of his wallet or does so very rarely. I mean, he just might not know about the messages sent to him. Of course, it's worth trying and you can sign the bitcoin transaction with a message for this.

Pmalek

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Quote from: gunhell16 on January 29, 2023, 01:03:14 AM

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario?

It wasn't theft because there were no bitcoins at all. It's a scam attempt in disguise designed to make you lose your money instead.

It's a question of what is the moral thing to do if such a thing happened for real. That's where the community has different opinions. Some wouldn't do a thing because it's not their coins. Others would "give" the original owner some time and then sweep the coins to one of their addresses. But the owner doesn't even know that the clock is ticking. Some users would try to warn the owner that their keys are compromised by depositing a small sum and then withdrawing it showing they have access to the private keys...

Cryptogames999

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Quote from: gunhell16 on January 29, 2023, 01:03:14 AM

Quote from: Welsh on December 22, 2022, 11:52:05 AM

Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on December 15, 2022, 01:32:26 AM

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

Another thing; unfortunately on social medias Bitcoin thefts tend to be treated as a joke, as we're still trying to escape the idea of cryptocurrencies, and therefore Bitcoin being fake money. We're still sort of combating against that stigma.

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

This is already 6 months old thread so the real owner may be moved money or changed password, if this doenst happen then he can use that money since approaching to police is a waste of time.
I don't know whether the OP has reasearched about the wallet or not. Some exchanges had people adress for owning a wallet with them. I hope the OP will have a positive reply.

gunhell16

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Quote from: Welsh on December 22, 2022, 11:52:05 AM

Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on December 15, 2022, 01:32:26 AM

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

Another thing; unfortunately on social medias Bitcoin thefts tend to be treated as a joke, as we're still trying to escape the idea of cryptocurrencies, and therefore Bitcoin being fake money. We're still sort of combating against that stigma.

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

Welsh

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 24, 2023, 12:43:06 PM

That's the right attitude and message. Bitcoin and crypto have enough scams on their plate already to turn away many people from trying it out of fear. On top of that, if the community is lurking and waiting to strike the moment they see a mistake, we don't really deserve the good that comes with Bitcoin. Then we shouldn't be surprised if bitcoiners are talked about in a bad light.

Unfortunately, when people are anonymous it clouds their judgement. It's similar to herd mentality, in that people don't think about the consequences when they're in a group, and therefore their identity doesn't necessarily stick out as much. I'm not just talking about the consequence that they might face, but how their actions will hurt someone else, and the extent of it. So, finding a wallet on the beach or anywhere that might not have much attention drawn to it, people can sometimes become a little more greedy, but when they've found it in the public eye they're more likely to do the right thing.

This is ultimately why Bitcoin gets a bad wrap, it's easier to be anonymous, and the authorities haven't really caught up in terms of investigating like they would with fiat. So, there's a lot more scams around. Hopefully, that changes in the near future, and we get a better reputation, once there's more consequences for those that look to scam.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Welsh on January 19, 2023, 01:37:24 PM

People make mistakes, and I'm certainly not expecting everyone to be a security expert. When I make a mistake in life, which is inevitable, I hope someone will be willing to help rather than to exploit that for personal gain.

That's the right attitude and message. Bitcoin and crypto have enough scams on their plate already to turn away many people from trying it out of fear. On top of that, if the community is lurking and waiting to strike the moment they see a mistake, we don't really deserve the good that comes with Bitcoin. Then we shouldn't be surprised if bitcoiners are talked about in a bad light.

Welsh

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Quote from: virasog on December 23, 2022, 06:53:04 PM

In most cases, it may be the fault of the person owing bitcoin to lose his coins by not being serious in storing his private keys. Yes, people know that they must use hardware wallets, personal wallets and paper wallets to secure their wealth, but no one emphasizes them that storing and securing your keys is the most important thing after owing the wallet.

I tend to not share the same view. I've found fiat filled wallets in the past, and have usually handed them into the organisation they've been left too or someone with a little more authority than myself. Same goes with private keys or seeds. If I found one, I wouldn't claim that money for myself, however there's definitely a concern on how to handle it due to the moral implications. I probably, wouldn't even check the balance, as that would have the same moral implications.

People make mistakes, and I'm certainly not expecting everyone to be a security expert. When I make a mistake in life, which is inevitable, I hope someone will be willing to help rather than to exploit that for personal gain.

nc50lc

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: easternklaas on July 31, 2022, 05:32:44 PM

-snip-

- There is no way for you to return it to the rightful owner because addresses are anonymous in Bitcoin. Now, if the owner of that paper wallet has another backup, and he knows it's lost, he probably moved the contents of that paper wallet to another bitcoin wallet address.

This thread is essentially "solved" after a few replies starting Page10 (here's the link | then OP's reply)
The paper wallet he found is nothing but a scam and it's one of the hundreds of thousands paper wallets scattered near OP's vicinity.

Pmalek

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Quote from: virasog on December 23, 2022, 06:53:04 PM

I am just surprised on the people who keep their private keys on oline cloud-based solutions. Think for a moment, that you move your funds out of centralized wallets and keep them in your personal wallets, but you are still happy to store the keys in online centralized cloud solutions. How ridiculous is that? Roll Eyes

It's a combination of ignorance and inexperience. They see services such as clouds or their personal emails as safe and un-hackable environments not knowing that the data there is not stored in their local storage, but a server somewhere (encrypted or not) that multiple people have access to and many more could in case of hacks or data leaks.

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Quote from: Welsh on December 22, 2022, 11:52:05 AM

Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on December 15, 2022, 01:32:26 AM

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

In most cases, it may be the fault of the person owing bitcoin to lose his coins by not being serious in storing his private keys. Yes, people know that they must use hardware wallets, personal wallets and paper wallets to secure their wealth, but no one emphasizes them that storing and securing your keys is the most important thing after owing the wallet.

Quote from: Pmalek on October 30, 2022, 06:48:27 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on October 20, 2022, 05:40:26 AM

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

Got to love how they say that other cold wallets are vulnerable to hackers because the keys are stored online. I can already see the billboards: Online cold storage solutions with hackable private key features. Who can say no to that?
At the same time, their answer is offline key storage, but there is a web-based app that is part of the mixture somehow.

I am just surprised on the people who keep their private keys on oline cloud-based solutions. Think for a moment, that you move your funds out of centralized wallets and keep them in your personal wallets, but you are still happy to store the keys in online centralized cloud solutions. How ridiculous is that? Roll Eyes

Welsh

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Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on December 15, 2022, 01:32:26 AM

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

Another thing; unfortunately on social medias Bitcoin thefts tend to be treated as a joke, as we're still trying to escape the idea of cryptocurrencies, and therefore Bitcoin being fake money. We're still sort of combating against that stigma.

Woodie

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Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on December 15, 2022, 01:32:26 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 29, 2022, 03:34:59 PM

This was posted by zasad@ in Scam Accusations topic, but we see that Austalian police finally had to react about this scam!
I would like to think that someone listened my advice about police that I wrote several months ago about this, and I hope scammers will end up in prison for doing this.
They even mentioned Bitcointalk forum and our topic in this article written by Przemysław Ćwik

https://coinpaper.com/710/scam-alert-police-warn-of-fake-paper-crypto-wallets

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Like they say, "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is" great save there mate.

Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on December 15, 2022, 01:32:26 AM

Glad police made this public as well.

Looking at the laughing emojis of the the post, clearly people never take these police reports seriously not until you a a victim to such a scam. If only we all understood that the police act on public knowledge and in this case the forum was of help in declaring this as a scam.

AHOYBRAUSE

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 29, 2022, 03:34:59 PM

This was posted by zasad@ in Scam Accusations topic, but we see that Austalian police finally had to react about this scam!
I would like to think that someone listened my advice about police that I wrote several months ago about this, and I hope scammers will end up in prison for doing this.
They even mentioned Bitcointalk forum and our topic in this article written by Przemysław Ćwik

https://coinpaper.com/710/scam-alert-police-warn-of-fake-paper-crypto-wallets

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

dkbit98

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This was posted by zasad@ in Scam Accusations topic, but we see that Austalian police finally had to react about this scam!
I would like to think that someone listened my advice about police that I wrote several months ago about this, and I hope scammers will end up in prison for doing this.
They even mentioned Bitcointalk forum and our topic in this article written by Przemysław Ćwik

https://coinpaper.com/710/scam-alert-police-warn-of-fake-paper-crypto-wallets

easternklaas

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Quote from: UnfortunateSon on October 20, 2022, 05:26:03 AM

Well if you're wondering how the scam works like @Cryptosize, I can explain it as I fell for it.

Like the OP I'm a crypto-noob living in Melbourne. A little less nooby as I did open a Binance account last year to help my son retrieve profits from some staking he'd done late 2021 when we were in what retired futures traders like moi call a dead cat bounce.

Anyway, after I'd retrieved his $140 I decided to tip in c.$1000 in BNB, ETH, IOTA and one other (can't remember - ADA? Cardano? Matic?)

So yesterday I was walking along Bell St Coburg and after seeing the third of these 'bright shiny objects', thought I'd investigate.

Brought it home, logged into https://paymetic.online/ with the requisite credentials, transferred the required USD92.55 in ETH and waited for my 0.62BTCBTC to land in my Binance account.

A couple of asides for those still following:

I obviously don't have the high moral standards of the OP who sought the wallet's owner. I figured if you store your moolah on a paper wallet with no traceable contact channel, you have taken a risk that lets opportunists like me in. I've done sums of money with similar levels of laxity. Comme si, comme ça
Getting to this point in the process had taken me nearly two hours [I said I was a noob, okay?]. I considered USD12k reasonable reward for my effort and risk.

Anyhoo, the upshot is I end up with this message on the Paymetic transaction page:

Good to hear you came out relatively unscathed.
Not sure some of my moral standards could be called high...
A learning experience for me. I'm glad I found bitcointalk..

Pmalek

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 20, 2022, 05:40:26 AM

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

Got to love how they say that other cold wallets are vulnerable to hackers because the keys are stored online. I can already see the billboards: Online cold storage solutions with hackable private key features. Who can say no to that?
At the same time, their answer is offline key storage, but there is a web-based app that is part of the mixture somehow.

dkbit98

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Quote from: UnfortunateSon on October 20, 2022, 05:26:03 AM

Like the OP I'm a crypto-noob living in Melbourne. A little less nooby as I did open a Binance account last year to help my son retrieve profits from some staking he'd done late 2021 when we were in what retired futures traders like moi call a dead cat bounce.

I said before and I will say it again, but first time to you, report this case to police investigators or at least contact some newspaper and tell them to write a story about this.
Maybe you will connect with all the people and look security cameras for idiots who are putting this paper crap around your area.
If this scammers are not stopped they are going to scam more people, and they will again blame Bitcoin for being scammed. Tongue

You didn't lose a lot of money, but someone can probably send them much more.

Quote from: UnfortunateSon on October 20, 2022, 05:26:03 AM

Anyhoo, the upshot is I end up with this message on the Paymetic transaction page:

I knew it scammers are using this stupid system they used to scam people in discord for years, and I said the same thing in this topic.
Cheap looking website that imitates exchange and wallet, and domain registered not so long ago, this are all red alerts.

Code:

Domain Name: PAYMETIC.ONLINE
Registry Domain ID: D326122348-CNIC
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.hostinger.com
Registrar URL: https://www.hostinger.com/
Updated Date: 2022-10-10T07:17:11.0Z
Creation Date: 2022-10-05T07:12:54.0Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2023-10-05T23:59:59.0Z
Registrar: Hostinger, UAB

Website archived:
https://archive.ph/xZoSU

Quote from: LoyceV on October 20, 2022, 05:40:26 AM

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

100% open source, but you can't find the source anywhere Cheesy

Don't trust, verify.

LoyceV

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Quote from: UnfortunateSon on October 20, 2022, 05:26:03 AM

Brought it home, logged into https://paymeticSCAM.online/ with the requisite credentials, transferred the required USD92.55 in ETH and waited for my 0.62BTCBTC to land in my Binance account.

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:
Image loading...

Quote

and the 0.08044ETH/92.55USD gone from my Binance account, but surprise!!, no 0.62BTC deposited.

Oh, well, I've escaped many other scams in my 40 years on the internet... pretty good considering.

A lesson in greed for only 92.55USD, you're lucky, some people pay much more for the same lesson. But still, funding scammers only encourages them to continue Sad

Rule of thumb: if you have to pay to get paid, you're getting scammed.

UnfortunateSon

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Well if you're wondering how the scam works like @Cryptosize, I can explain it as I fell for it.

Like the OP I'm a crypto-noob living in Melbourne. A little less nooby as I did open a Binance account last year to help my son retrieve profits from some staking he'd done late 2021 when we were in what retired futures traders like moi call a dead cat bounce.

Anyway, after I'd retrieved his $140 I decided to tip in c.$1000 in BNB, ETH, IOTA and one other (can't remember - ADA? Cardano? Matic?)

So yesterday I was walking along Bell St Coburg and after seeing the third of these 'bright shiny objects', thought I'd investigate.

Brought it home, logged into https://paymetic.online/ with the requisite credentials, transferred the required USD92.55 in ETH and waited for my 0.62BTCBTC to land in my Binance account.

A couple of asides for those still following:

I obviously don't have the high moral standards of the OP who sought the wallet's owner. I figured if you store your moolah on a paper wallet with no traceable contact channel, you have taken a risk that lets opportunists like me in. I've done sums of money with similar levels of laxity. Comme si, comme ça
Getting to this point in the process had taken me nearly two hours [I said I was a noob, okay?]. I considered USD12k reasonable reward for my effort and risk.

Anyhoo, the upshot is I end up with this message on the Paymetic transaction page:

Quote

Transaction Status:

PENDING (Awaiting Payment)

Your withdrawal will be ready for completion as soon as payment is received. And upon completion, your funds will arrive into your destination wallet within 15-30 minutes.

Please ensure you send enough funds to cover any additional network fees, as incomplete payment may result in a failed or expired transaction.

Please note: At least 10 blockchain confirmations are required for your transaction status to be updated from "Pending" to "Ready

".

and the 0.08044ETH/92.55USD gone from my Binance account, but surprise!!, no 0.62BTC deposited.

Oh, well, I've escaped many other scams in my 40 years on the internet... pretty good considering.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 12, 2022, 08:17:32 AM

Multi-sig, on the other hand, on m devices.

Well, not necessarily. You can reconstruct a multi-sig wallet on anywhere between 1 and m devices; it's just safer not to do it all on a single device.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 12, 2022, 08:17:32 AM

Would it be a bad idea to represent a master public key as a phrase?

There's certainly nothing stopping you, but I guess you would have to weigh the risks of making a mistake writing down a Base58 master public key, versus the risks of incorrectly transcribing your Base58 key to a phrase and doing something non-standard which would be more difficult to recover from. I prefer the first option with meticulous double checking - write it down in Base58, double check it, and then recover from your written down key and check it all matches up.

Topic: I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously - page 3. (Read 5820 times)