I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously - page 4.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 12, 2022, 08:04:09 AM

No, it isn't. Shamir's is poorly implemented and has a number of problems which makes it a bad solution, as detailed here and here.

Hadn't read the risks. Thanks.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 12, 2022, 08:04:09 AM

Plus multi-sig brings all the advantages of a standard implementation with no single point of failure.

Right. SSS requires to reconstruct the secrets in one device. Multi-sig, on the other hand, on [up to] m devices. Would it be a bad idea to represent a master public key as a phrase? To overcome the problem more properly, without SD cards or USBs that contain the n-m master public keys, and without writing down the base58-ed master public keys (as they're prune to human errors and takes more time).

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 12, 2022, 07:35:36 AM

The most proper way to do this is with Shamir Secret Sharing Scheme.

No, it isn't. Shamir's is poorly implemented and has a number of problems which makes it a bad solution, as detailed here and here. A better solution is to either use one or more complex passphrases, or use multi-sig.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 12, 2022, 07:35:36 AM

This is better than Multi-Sig, because you don't need every seed's master public key.

Which is a trivial problem to overcome in an m-of-n multi-sig simply by backing up n minus m of the other master public keys along with each seed phrase/master private key. Plus multi-sig brings all the advantages of a standard implementation with no single point of failure.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Inwestour on September 12, 2022, 07:11:49 AM

By the way, it's a very good idea to divide the backup in such a way, that no one can use it if somehow it is found. I will definitely fix this point soon.

The most proper way to do this is with Shamir Secret Sharing Scheme. For example, you can choose to split your money into 5 seed phrases, 3 of which are enough to recover the money, and hide them all in different places. This is better than Multi-Sig, because you don't need every seed's master public key.

In any case, don't divide one seed phrase in multiple parts, you're most likely going to lose money.

Inwestour

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Quote from: Pmalek on August 21, 2022, 02:10:58 AM

We agree on all points in this particular case, however the thing with this particular private key found on the beach by the OP is that it is a physical object represented in a paper wallet form. Whoever the original owner is or who their successors are, they have lost a physical object that used to be in their possession somewhere and somehow. Hopefully, that's not their only backup, they will discover sooner or later that it's missing and move the coins elsewhere.

I also have backups and I think they are in a safe place and I confess I have not checked if they are in place for a very long time. I just rule out the possibility that they could disappear from there, because it's not easy to get to them and therefore I hope that they are stored there safely.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 21, 2022, 04:01:50 AM

Yeah, that's a good point. I also have a number of back ups stored off site, as everyone should. These backs ups are obviously highly secured and incredibly unlikely to end up on a beach somewhere (not to mention that no single back up is enough to compromise any of my wallets), but at the same time, I obviously don't check on these back ups every day. It is possible, however unlikely, that I would lose one of my back ups and not realize for a period of weeks. There is no telling how diligent or otherwise the true owner of these coins might be, and it could very well be months or even years before they realize that their paper wallet is lost.

By the way, it's a very good idea to divide the backup in such a way, that no one can use it if somehow it is found. I will definitely fix this point soon.

Pmalek

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 03, 2022, 01:59:07 PM

Can you remember by any chance who was the first guy in this topic to say this fake paper wallet is a scam?

Nope, no idea. I can't remember. Grin

Quote from: dkbit98 on September 03, 2022, 01:59:07 PM

I would suggest that you take this fake paper wallet to your local police station in Australia, so they can take fingerprints and see who is really planting this ''seeds'' in your area.
He made a bunch of them, and there is no chance someone is doing this by chance, this is most likely deliberate scam attempt.

He can try but I don't see it going anywhere. The police surely has a very limited knowledge about bitcoin and trying to get them to understand that this is a scam where the goal is to trick people into depositing on a fake website isn't going to be easy. One of the things they will ask is were you scammed and did you lose money? OP wasn't. Is someone out to scam you or do you have reasons to believe it's an attempt to steal from you? Do you have proof of anyone being scammed? And the answers are again negative.

easternklaas

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Quote from: LoyceV on September 03, 2022, 10:24:57 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Yep I'm happy for you to post the photos i took of the wallets I found.

I took the liberty of cropping them a bit (there were other thumbnails visible on the screenshot. This is what I received:

https://loyce.club/other/easternklaas1.jpg

https://loyce.club/other/easternklaas2.jpg
(click for larger size, or click right > Open Image in New Tab" to view the full size through Bitcointalk's image proxy)

This is the address:

Quote from: LoyceV on August 22, 2022, 11:41:15 AM

1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

Funds moved out of this address on August 29, 2022.
I'd like to know if those funds came from victims who fell for this scam. If it actually works for the scammer, we may see many more scams like this!

Thanks for cropping LoyceV Roll Eyes

DireWolfM14

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Quote from: Cricktor on September 03, 2022, 03:39:44 PM

Not sure if it's only today, but I seem not to be the brightest candle on the cake right now. The paperwallet creator apparently used a metal paper clip for every instance of his fraudulent paperwallet. I still don't get the purpose of it. The zip bag isn't quite waterproof and the paper clip tends to rust with time and moisture exposure. Could this be deliberate to fake long exposure to elements of nature?

I think you're putting way too much thought into it. It was probably done by a couple of adolescent rascals who stole all the materials from their parents, and just used what ever they had on hand to make it look legitimate. I mean, it seems rather obvious that it's a phishing trip but it looks like a real amateur attempt to me.

Cricktor

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 03, 2022, 01:59:07 PM

Quote from: Cricktor on September 03, 2022, 01:58:37 PM

BTW, what's the purpose of the metal paper clip. Leaving rusty marks?

He probably printed bunch of same copies and used paper clip to hold them together.
I can't find any records of that .com domain, so he probably invented something that doesn't exist to make it look more legit.

This is how they look when they are freshly printed and planted, no water or rust yet:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

Not sure if it's only today, but I seem not to be the brightest candle on the cake right now. The paperwallet creator apparently used a metal paper clip for every instance of his fraudulent paperwallet. I still don't get the purpose of it. The zip bag isn't quite waterproof and the paper clip tends to rust with time and moisture exposure. Could this be deliberate to fake long exposure to elements of nature?

DireWolfM14

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 03, 2022, 02:39:38 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on September 03, 2022, 02:19:34 PM

I just don't think this is worth the attention compared to other risks.

How do we know all the risks of this scam, when we don't even know the full story yet?
Scammers could actually create new website with that domain and lure people do send them bitcoin (in fake exchange), to be eligible for withdrawing fake 0.6 BTC.
I said before that similar tactics was used in fake discord giveaways in last few years.

Police won't just start looking for some one based potential risk, at least that's how it would work in my country (or it did until a few weeks ago.) Unless someone reports being defrauded, and it's specifically linked to that address, nothing is likely to happen. Then there's the amount of the fraud; if only one person reports being defrauded for a small amount then the police won't give it much resources. Also, it appears this scam has only netted about $2500 of bitcoin, that's probably not enough to warrant a high degree of concern. And that's assuming the funds that moved through the wallet were scammed, they could have been put there as bait.

Besides, most police departments have much bigger priorities, and far more dangerous individuals to pursue.

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on September 03, 2022, 02:19:34 PM

I just don't think this is worth the attention compared to other risks.

How do we know all the risks of this scam, when we don't even know the full story yet?
Scammers could actually create new website with that domain and lure people do send them bitcoin (in fake exchange), to be eligible for withdrawing fake 0.6 BTC.
I said before that similar tactics was used in fake discord giveaways in last few years.

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 03, 2022, 02:13:46 PM

at least they can warn people someone is trying to scam them like this with fake bitcoin wallets.

I just don't think this is worth the attention compared to other risks.

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on September 03, 2022, 02:10:41 PM

I don't think they search fingerprints for littering, nor for a scam attempt without a known victim.

easternklaas could be a potential victim of scam attempt, and other people as well.
What are the chances that he finds the same wallet two times, and other people to report exact same thing on reddit?
If they don't take fingerprint evidence, at least they can warn people someone is trying to scam them like this with fake bitcoin wallets.

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 03, 2022, 01:59:07 PM

I would suggest that you take this fake paper wallet to your local police station in Australia, so they can take fingerprints and see who is really planting this ''seeds'' in your area.

I don't think they search fingerprints for littering, nor for a scam attempt without a known victim.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Pmalek on September 03, 2022, 02:16:11 AM

I am now pretty certain that it's a scam.

Can you remember by any chance who was the first guy in this topic to say this fake paper wallet is a scam?

Quote from: easternklaas on September 02, 2022, 08:23:05 PM

So you won't believe it,.. I was walking my dog yesterday,. I came across another paper wallet! This time I took a photo after I pulled it from the seagrass. What are the chances? Have I come across some secret BTC honey hole? What if this one has more than 0.6BTC in it?

I would suggest that you take this fake paper wallet to your local police station in Australia, so they can take fingerprints and see who is really planting this ''seeds'' in your area.
He made a bunch of them, and there is no chance someone is doing this by chance, this is most likely deliberate scam attempt.

Quote from: easternklaas on September 02, 2022, 08:23:05 PM

Rewind about 2wks,.. I did some basic research on the .com site printed on the wallet and noticed it was only a new website and that it has been given a 99.6% chance of it being a phishing website and extremely unlikely to be authentic.

Can you please share the full domain name of that .com website?
EDIT: Never mind, I found it.

Quote from: Cricktor on September 03, 2022, 01:58:37 PM

BTW, what's the purpose of the metal paper clip. Leaving rusty marks?

He probably printed bunch of same copies and used paper clip to hold them together.
I can't find any records of that .com domain, so he probably invented something that doesn't exist to make it look more legit.

This is how they look when they are freshly printed and planted, no water or rust yet:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

Cricktor

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Well, as of now the address 1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE had 46 incoming transaction with a total of 0.10656742BTC. By end of August all remaining funds have been withdrawn.
Bloody scammer of noobs or greed benighted folks...

BTW, what's the purpose of the metal paper clip. Leaving rusty marks?

LoyceV

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Quote from: Agbe on September 03, 2022, 10:49:11 AM

This two stories, easternklaas and dkbit98, which of them is the real story?

Probably both.

My take:

Someone setup a scam site
They dropped printed access to the site on several beaches
I didn't check the site, but I expect it to ask people to deposit
Once deposited, their money is gone
The same address was funded and emptied several times
I don't think this ended yet, so the same address might get more funds from victims.

@Agbe: Please shrink your quote.

Agbe

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Quote from: LoyceV on September 03, 2022, 10:24:57 AM

(~)

This two stories, easternklaas and dkbit98, which of them is the real story? And if the fund was moved on the 29th of August then the wallet found in the seashore or beach is useless because the owner has transferred the coins to another Wallet and thrown the old wallet, or the founder of the wallet did it. Then another question might be asked. When did he found the wallet? I am not an expert on this issue but I am learning to Know it. Mostly how the case is handled.

LoyceV

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Yep I'm happy for you to post the photos i took of the wallets I found.

I took the liberty of cropping them a bit (there were other thumbnails visible on the screenshot). This is what I received:

Image loading...

(click for larger size, or click right > "Open Image in New Tab" to view the full size through Bitcointalk's image proxy)

This is the address:

Quote from: LoyceV on August 22, 2022, 11:41:15 AM

1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

Funds moved out of this address on August 29, 2022.
I'd like to know if those funds came from victims who fell for this scam. If it actually works for the scammer, we may see many more scams like this!

Pmalek

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I am now pretty certain that it's a scam. Whoever keeps leaving those wallets around surely expects that someone who knows about bitcoin will find them. Once they do, they will get curious, scan the QR codes, and be redirected to some sort of fake exchange that will welcome them with a decent-looking balance. Once that happens, the site will ask them to make a deposit for whatever reason. Security deposit, tax payments, etc.

Finding one paper wallet seems odd but finding the same wallet twice is surely a scam in the making. The fact that the site where the QR code takes you is brand new just confirms that theory.

Full disclosure: OP PMed me to send photos of the paper wallets via email. I declined and suggested that photos can be posted on Imgur and the links can be posted in the thread or he can PM me them if he wants to. Now that LoyceV has shown an interest in taking a look, that's even better. I am sure the wallet contains no private keys so it's safe to post them publicly.

LoyceV

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Quote from: easternklaas on September 02, 2022, 08:23:05 PM

I have photo's of the two paper wallets and will try send them to someone on here as I can't seem to be able to attach the pics to this post.

Feel free to email me: [email protected]. With your permission, I'll upload the images to my site, and post them here.

Topic: I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously - page 4. (Read 5844 times)