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Topic: I think Ethereum will be finished after this attack - page 13. (Read 15605 times)

legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1055
Ethereum's platform has done nothing wrong. It is the issule of the DAO's codes. Traders are not thinking rationally.

Exactly. its not ETH's fault. It shoulld be an easy money for you if you buy more ETH this time. it has proven to be a great system and will be back sooner.
its cheaper now so it must be a good time to buy.
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
Ethereum's platform has done nothing wrong. It is the issule of the DAO's codes. Traders are not thinking rationally.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
Well the price is 0.015 at Yobit, which is what, $11.25?  That's not bad.  True, it's dropped from 0.028 but it's not dead by a long shot.  I'm watching it for entertainment though.

What can't die, must live.
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 7011
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Well the price is 0.015 at Yobit, which is what, $11.25?  That's not bad.  True, it's dropped from 0.028 but it's not dead by a long shot.  I'm watching it for entertainment though.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
No matter outcome Ethereum is dead. If they fork, the smart contracts are worthless, if they don't the hacker owns enough coins to destroy the coin. GG, no re.
full member
Activity: 122
Merit: 100
I think its impossible right now ethereum will recover their loses.. the price of ethereum still reducing and more investors are selling their ethereum.. because of dao issue.. If there's a new update from ethereum that they will  fix the problem about the hacking issue.. maybe its the best to buy ethereum right now.. we will wait for new update.. and i think we have a chance again to make a profit with ether...
I agree with the mean about the attack, now, we should wait the team to fix the problem about the hacking issue, this will be a best chance to buy ETH. now,i will use BTC to buy some ETH.
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
Holy cow, almost every altcoin has a chart like that, it means nothing...

Yes, but the key difference is the tinning(immediately after) and the degree of immediate drop off which is unique.

It is very naive to assume there is no correlation , especially when Vericoin users themselves expressed many grievances by this rollback.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1014
Holy cow, almost every altcoin has a chart like that, it means nothing...
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I think Ethereum will be no more among us after this attack, the issues to it will be fixed sooner but i don't think that it will survive for longer , it will die in this year.

Vitalik Buterin did the mistake of his life by pannicking about people panic selling and demanding that exchanges froze the ETH markets... I mean what the FUCK? Think about this for a moment. This is terrible and sets a scary precedent. This would never happen with BTC because everyone knows it would be a disaster.
First time I read about this! Freezing markets happened after the 9/11. It seems a bit excessive to freeze markets for something this unimportant!

A fork takes away all trust. Satoshi's assumption is that miners are rational, so they won't do things that hurt them. If miners can fork for this, they can also do it to take funds from someone else.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I think its impossible right now ethereum will recover their loses.. the price of ethereum still reducing and more investors are selling their ethereum.. because of dao issue.. If there's a new update from ethereum that they will  fix the problem about the hacking issue.. maybe its the best to buy ethereum right now.. we will wait for new update.. and i think we have a chance again to make a profit with ether...
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
you sir do not understand why eth coin has value and will survive this.   Eth coin still mines at a profit and is the cheapest way to mine BTC via simple sell  your mined eth for btc.

please  sir remember that intel, nvidia ,amd all desktop mining industry wants a good gpu mined coin that allows for discounts on your gaming gear.

The only thing I would concede is any gpu coin that turns a mining profit works for the above major companies so if a gpu coin comes out that is better then eth so be it miners will switch.

Is GPU mining the main reason that ETH has more value than Monero (which is more CPU mining friendly)  Huh
legendary
Activity: 4326
Merit: 8950
'The right to privacy matters'
I think Ethereum will be no more among us after this attack, the issues to it will be fixed sooner but i don't think that it will survive for longer , it will die in this year.

Vitalik Buterin did the mistake of his life by pannicking about people panic selling and demanding that exchanges froze the ETH markets... I mean what the FUCK? Think about this for a moment. This is terrible and sets a scary precedent. This would never happen with BTC because everyone knows it would be a disaster.

Wasn't there a bitcoin snafu where it went to 1c briefly because there was a major code problem in early days, like 2011 or 2012?
Yes and this is consistently overlooked by Spoetniktards.

Not the same at all. BTC had a PROTOCOL problem, and BTC was tiny back then, no one even cared. ETH problem is just money being "stolen" (not really since "hacker" just used the contract's code), and marketcap is on the millions of dollars.
When was the last time satoshi told exchanges to freeze all funds? Get real, ETH is fucked, BTC as solid as ever.

you sir do not understand why eth coin has value and will survive this.   Eth coin still mines at a profit and is the cheapest way to mine BTC via simple sell  your mined eth for btc.

please  sir remember that intel, nvidia ,amd all desktop mining industry wants a good gpu mined coin that allows for discounts on your gaming gear.


The only thing I would concede is any gpu coin that turns a mining profit works for the above major companies so if a gpu coin comes out that is better then eth so be it miners will switch.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.

51% attack taking control of the protocol is not a hazard  Huh

They could decide to increase the number of coins issued, install the ChainAnchor KYC on all transactions, etc..
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 507
It has dropped to $11's again. Yes, I also think that ethereum is dead, but this is not a good news even for those that have always rejected this altcoin, because this will become a great reference for uncertainty and fragility on this relatively new digital economy.
full member
Activity: 203
Merit: 100
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So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
If the "attacker" offers to give back majority of the coins back, and he keeps a very small amount, I will oppose the fork.

So you might as well fork then, because this means for those future attackers that don't comply, you will support a fork. So if you represent the decision of majority hash rate, then no one can trust Ethereum to not 51% attack itself to fork the protocol.
sr. member
Activity: 357
Merit: 250
If the "attacker" offers to give back majority of the coins back, and he keeps a very small amount, I will oppose the fork.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
I think Ethereum will be no more among us after this attack, the issues to it will be fixed sooner but i don't think that it will survive for longer , it will die in this year.

Vitalik Buterin did the mistake of his life by pannicking about people panic selling and demanding that exchanges froze the ETH markets... I mean what the FUCK? Think about this for a moment. This is terrible and sets a scary precedent. This would never happen with BTC because everyone knows it would be a disaster.

Wasn't there a bitcoin snafu where it went to 1c briefly because there was a major code problem in early days, like 2011 or 2012?
Yes and this is consistently overlooked by Spoetniktards.

Not the same at all. BTC had a PROTOCOL problem, and BTC was tiny back then, no one even cared. ETH problem is just money being "stolen" (not really since "hacker" just used the contract's code), and marketcap is on the millions of dollars.
When was the last time satoshi told exchanges to freeze all funds? Get real, ETH is fucked, BTC as solid as ever.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
Why do they fail if they fork?

Seems to me the fanboys who buy anything that sounds good, don't really care about whether it is decentralized, because we were writing for months in the Ethereum Paradox thread that Casper would be moving it towards centralization. They only believe what they want to believe.

So why would recovering the funds for the fanboys be worse than not from the perspective of sustaining Ethereum?

They can state that the rules weren't well elucidated and that in the future, all users must understand that contracts are not warranted to perform as advertised.

Tual has potentially a big problem if they didn't do adequate disclosure. This can end up in lawsuits and he can end up prosecuted under securities regulations. If they did make very clear and conspicuous disclosure about risks, then they definitely shouldn't fork because no one will ever again know what the rules are (as they will be open to change at-will).

All about fungibility and centralization. It sucks, and I don't think anyone could honestly argue that the attacker deserves the coins, but intervening would be disastrous to the long term prospects of ETH. There's plenty of precedent to suggest that intervention like this would be a death sentence. The "fanboys" wouldn't care, but as far as long term adoption and all that goes, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. Those in it for the quick money are no doubt pissed off, but anyone in it for the long haul should be staunchly against a fork.

I think the "attacker" deserves the funds, because and assuming he did nothing illegal (but I am not even sure if he didn't violate some obscure law). But we are discussing about perceptions of what the risks are. Please re-read my prior post as I added to it. For me, it hinges on whether they had adequately explained/disclosed the risks to the DAO and ETH investors. I suspect not (otherwise why $168m invested[1]). Thus I argue they can fork and then make the conspicuous and repeated disclosure so that it is clear they will be consistent from here on. And they pretty much have to fork in that case, else they throw themselves under the legal liability bus (but due to the decline in the ETH price they are fucked legally no matter what they do). As for the threats of lawsuits from the "attacker", these can be ignored because they can claim that the majority has the Byzantine power to fork and everyone who uses CC knows that.

Or they can take the stance that all CC investors should know the risks and that they are the owners, because it is decentralized. In that case, they shouldn't fork, but I think they will lose this argument in court perhaps. The DAO investors can file a class action lawsuit for example (which btw supercedes every international jurisdiction!) and claim to be n00bs who trusted Vitalik and Tual their idols.

I believe this clusterfuck is going to lead to securities regulation of CC.  Cry

Vitalik is growing up very fast I think right about now.


[1] Where are the statements about how participants could lose everything if there is a bug? They should have scared away some of the money. I read 18,000 investors for $168 million, so several $1000s each.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Why do they fail if they fork?

Seems to me the fanboys who buy anything that sounds good, don't really care about whether it is decentralized, because we were writing for months in the Ethereum Paradox thread that Casper would be moving it towards centralization. They only believe what they want to believe.

So why would recovering the funds for the fanboys be worse than not from the perspective of sustaining Ethereum?
All about fungibility and centralization. It sucks, and I don't think anyone could honestly argue that the attacker deserves the coins, but intervening would be disastrous to the long term prospects of ETH. There's plenty of precedent to suggest that intervention like this would be a death sentence. The "fanboys" wouldn't care, but as far as long term adoption and all that goes, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. Those in it for the quick money are no doubt pissed off, but anyone in it for the long haul should be staunchly against a fork.
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