Topic: I think it's time to leave Binance, any alternatives? (Read 1010 times)

You've done the exact same thing in your post again. It's not what's in my little brain, it's what's visual to anyone viewing how you're creating your posts. You don't address where you're wrong, you misconstrue very particular parts of the post to make it look like you've debunked one of my comments...until I come back and response.


You're clearly looking through a hateful lens, this reply made 0 sense and shows you aren't reading my posts and/or doing what I described above.

Excerpt:

^ What I was referring to were the exchanges you highlighted (Bisq, Peach bitcoin, Agoradesk, Hodlhodl etc)...They're P2P exchanges/marketplaces. Bisq probably being the most decentralized of p2p marketplaces/exchanges - Though the point was, they're not the kind of exchanges I was referring to - I was referring to EVM DEXs/decentralized crypto exchanges - being ones that are built for position management (not decentralized fiat<>crypto exchanging). Reading back on my post, that was pretty clear (when you read the whole sentence(s) and not the 6 words you snipped out of it.


You're acting as if I said "Top" like they are on top of every single exchange. The context I was referring to was that they are the top in their ecosystem. For example, GMX is one of the top EVM DEXs in the Arbitrum ecosystem (and, in the Layer 2 space). That's pretty clear when you read the full post.

Here's two posts where I mentioned "TOP" referring to Arbirtrum being the layer 2 ecosystem with the most TVL (fact) and most EVM DEXs only supporting top 10-50 currencies (fact)



I'm not pretending to be dumb, nor am I. From a third party perspective who has blockchain knowledge, I'm really not concerned and not at all insecure about who looks dumb and who doesn't in this chain of posts.


Telling you to kindly fuck off for trying to be a moderator is really does not render me as "true shit-face of an asshole". Telling you to "stfu lol" after some shitpostin such as telling me that Bitcoin has no likelihood of scam even when you aren't doing any due diligence:


Also doesn't render me that (in my eyes anyway, felt warranted to both laugh and tell you to stfu after that post)

but I can understand your feelings considering how burned you've gotten throughout this entire chain and the strategies that you're resorting to in order to not be seen as unintelligent, argumentative, irrational and not at all knowledgeable outside of the sphere of Bitcoin.

At no point in this thread, or any other thread where I've talked about EVMs and Layer 2s, have I ever promoted a shitcoin (according to my definition). Since your definition is that everything other than BTC is a shitcoin, then sure. I, and many others who aren't in your bubble, are considered shitcoin promoters (to you, which is very very far from majority/consensus).


It is based on facts. Bridging, web3, Ethereum, layer2's and their volume, usage and development on open-source platforms like Github, are the proof. If you're really trying to trick people into thinking that these ecosystems simply don't exist, who are you actually trying to fool at this point?


It really does not take a genius to run an Ethereum, polygon, arbitrum, or any layer 2 node. It's pretty much elementary to use your own full node if you're using these chains as well, for the sake of increasing privacy and retaining your data.

The off-topic conversation was fueled by yourself and your clear lack of education about the blockchain innovations that are happening outside of Bitcoin. I'm happy to keep burning you (I'm sure outsiders who have the same/vaster knowledge of non-btc blockchains are smiling) but I'm also happy to stop wasting time here Nice talking with you and good to see your true colors!

Only in your little brain maybe, but you can think whatever you want.

You can't name a single example.

You used word TOP several times so don't pretend to be dumber than you are please.

There it is now, showing your true shit-face of an asshole  
Feel free to continue with personal insults, that is one thing shitcoiners are usually good at, and yes you are promoting shitcoins with your posts.

Another shitcoin promotion that is not based on actual facts.

Yeah sure, you run nodes  
I won't continue this oftopic conversation, so do don't expect me to answer anything on all of your future posts.
Adios.

The funniest thing about your post is that you've picked out very little of what I said to try and invalidate what I'm saying, and still managed to fail miserably  

They're P2P exchanges that are decentralized. They aren't built for position trading. They're built for infrequent trading. Fees do not allow you to trade at high frequency.

I never called any of the exchanges I'm talking about top gun, so I don't know why you put that in quotes. I called them innovative, because in comparison to CEXs, they are innovative.


I'm not promoting them, and you're not a mod, so kindly fuck off
These tokens aren't claiming to be Bitcoin. They provide a peg to Bitcoin, so that you can use EVM capability/utility, as you can't do the same things with Bitcoin. They are not garbage, they are legitimate, they are liquid. That's factual, not opinion...the blockchain proves that.



I said some EVM DEXs have card gateways to buy crypto as well. I never said anything about withdrawing to bank - that's not what decentralized exchange protocols on EVMs are for. They're to provide an alternative to things like Binance trading.

Quote me where I said absolutely anything about being able to sell to bank or fiat at any point in regards to the DEXs I'm talking about.

And I mentioned P2P exchanges because if you want to sell, that's where you go. Not an EVM DEX.


I run nodes for both lol. It's a little bit more difficult than BTC to setup, but not so much harder that it would create some sort of exclusivity barrier.

So I can trust everything in the bitcoin ecosystem with no chance of loss?
Stfu lol.

This is not true!
All decentralized exchanges I mentioned all have real volume, not like your ''top gun'' exchanges  

They are all centralized garbage, and please STOP promoting shitcoin and shitcoin services in this forum section.
All tokens claiming to be Bitcoin are NOT bitcoin, that is a fact, but go ahead and use them if you want.

No, use your shitcoin exchanges for selling, you said they work with fiat, so use them if you can... don't mix P2P exchanges here.

Hahaha what a bunch of fantasy dreams.
Try running a node on those shitcoins, it's almost impossible to do it for regular person and I don't know a single person who runs shitereum and polyscam nodes.

No it's not.

I could say the same thing as I never once mentioned that DEXs provided the ability to sell crypto for fiat. No dex does, because it can't be a DEX otherwise.

The wrapped assets are not garbage if they're entirely liquid and made liquid in a decentralized manner. Wrapped assets have been around for a long time and they exist on all EVM chains to enable decentralized usage. They will only become garbage if decentralized protocols on Bitcoin beat utility and capability of EVM chains, which at this point is extremely unlikely anytime soon.

I AM NOT talking about true shitcoins. Like pump and dump memecoin crap or scam/hyped projects. I am talking about wrapped assets like WBTC, WETH, etc. Which are perfectly viable and liquid on the top chains, and will be for as long as use cases on EVMs are wider than BTC.

They have card gateways for buying. Swapping them back into BTC is easy, requires no slippage and is a liquid process. The purpose of DEXs are not to liquidate BTC for fiat, it's to decentralize trading of blockchain assets.

If you want to sell for fiat, use P2P. If you're still using CEXs for withdrawing, you're a pleb.


You're not bursting any dream bubble, as the dream bubble doesn't exist. It's already reality. I see and use these protocols on a daily basis and am talking from experience.

If you honestly think all layer2/EVM ecosystems are controlled by few people and the protocols within them are fake, you are the one in the bubble. There are tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of contributors who are building web3 via EVMs.

Yes, I agree, no due diligence = likelihood of scam. Is that not the case in Bitcoin too? So when there's bad actors in an ecosystem, the entire ecosystem should be considered scam? How is that mentality any better than the bankers and the media when they were calling bitcoin a criminal network, a scam, a ponzi, etc? It's exactly the same mentality...

The real semi-scam created by a creator and a few of his buddies are Binance and Tron. Decentralized protocols that are true, open source and liquid are for the betterment of finance, just like Bitcoin.


Being a maxi was fine til 2020. Before that; "everything else is a shitcoin" was a perfectly reasonable outlook. 2021/2022 that same outlook was appropriate for the sake of skepticism but reality is that you were losing touch. 2023 you're just unaware. 2024 onwards you'll just be sounding more and more repetitive and factually inaccurate, and eventually people will not only get sick of correcting you, but sick of reading what you have to say.

Innovation does not only legitimately reside within the Bitcoin ecosystem. If you believe that, right now you're just unaware...soon you'll start hurting your own credibility through shortsightedness...Just like banks, politicians and media did when they acted like money couldn't be innovated and every money system other than fiat was a form of scam.

Yea, you are maybe right.

What annoys me the most is not necessarily the fact that Binance may have handed over user data to the German authorities (that's also crap ofc, but if they want to operate in the EU, they have to comply with the law). But rather that this may have happened on a large scale and without a German court order.

And it feels more like this: Hey authorities, take everything you want and much more, as long as you let us continue to do business in your country.

If Binance, in anticipatory obedience, really passes on my data to any authority without my knowledge and without being legally obliged to do so, I find that more than questionable. To be honest, there can be no greater red flag.

And the case around the German exchange Bitcoin.de is in fact completely different. Until the data was handed over to the German authorities, there was a long legal dispute, because Bitcoin.de was initially not willing to hand over the user data. Only when they were obliged to do so by a German court ruling they handed over the data. They at least tried to protect the privacy of their users. Binance, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about the privacy of its users at all.

Either you can't read what I wrote or you are pretending you don't understand.
I am not interested in any wrap shit and I was talking mostly about fiat currencies.
Liquidity for most shitcoins is fake and everyone knows that, well maybe except you.

Go ahead and try to sell Bitcoin for fiat currencies on those ''top'' shitcoin exchanges, and tell me how it goes for you.
Good luck.

It's all semi-scam shitcoins controlled by creator of that centralized chains, and few of his buddies.
This is a fact, sorry for bursting your dream bubble, and do more research about this.

Since dkbit98 is essentially a bitcoin maxi, everything else is shitcoin including all those "top ones" (except maybe Monero?) no matter how liquid they are, hence his stance.

LOL. Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

As for fiat on ramps, some of the DEXs do have card gateways because they are established technology companies. Obviously you're just being one sided with your outdated opinion and haven't actually looked into Arbitrum and how powerful it actually is...and, how liquid it is.

You may have been right to call WBTC and other tokens shitcoins 3 years ago when they first came about' however the liquidity of Arbitrum and the wrapped tokens in the Ethereum ecosystem are as liquid, if not more liquid, than some of the centralized exchanges that people still use.

So far I haven't gotten anything so I guess Croatia is not included yet, but since they started enforcing this in some EU countries its just a matter of time when it becomes mandatory for users in all EU countries.


Even if its just a rumour, sooner or later it will become reality as that will be the only way Binance will get license to operate in EU.

This is only available for shitcoins and they don't support fiat currencies, so this is more or less all worthless crap.

I am not supporting Binance at all, but I don't think they are the first exchange who is doing this, so they are probably pushed by some regulations from those European countries.
This is unacceptable for anyone who want's to have more privacy, but I guess they wouldn't be on Binance after they announced strict kyc rules.
Luckily there are solid decentralized alternatives like Bisq, Peach Bitcoin, Robosats, Agora desk, etc. for exchanging Bitcoin to fiat and vice versa.

It looks like Binance is currently pushing Source of Wealth Declarations in several European countries.



Source: https://twitter.com/heartereum/status/1679152137182257152/photo/1

In addition, there have been rumours in Germany for some time that Binance has passed on transaction histories and user data to the authorities on a large scale (but there is no direct source for this). However, the authorities have announced in the Bitcoin.de court case in which 4000 data sets were handed to the NRW authorities, that other exchanges could follow soon. In this case, suspicion falls on Binance again.

If you have to use a CEX as a FIAT gateway, think twice if you still want to use Binance.

I do fear that when I talk about decentralized exchanges, people tend to think of Uniswap only and don't explore further than that. If you are looking only at decentralized exchanges like Uniswap, then you are right. The position management features (like stops and take profits) are not available. However it should be noted that Uniswap is better described as a decentralized swap platform, not really an exchange.

I highly recommend checking out Arbitrum One, an Ethereum layer 2 solution which has many decentralized exchange projects that are reliable, liquid, and some of which have stood the test of time. One of these are GMX.io, which has the features you are looking for. I only suggest GMX over other solutions as this DEX has definitely stood the time test to date.

If you're worried about liquidity of Arbitrum, it is the top layer 2 solution in terms of TVL (total value locked). In other words, it has more liquidity than all Ethereum-based solutions other than Ethereum itself. If you're worried about fees per trade, transaction fees are less than $0.01 generally and trading fees are generally more competitive than centralized exchanges. In terms of volume and trade data, most decentralized exchanges use Oracle data and AMMs (automated market makers) to ensure prices have no slippage (just like Binance do, by the way. What you see is AMMs not 100℅ real trading volume by real traders).

Arbitrum have a directory of Dex's on their website. I recommend you go check it out, give them a try and report back your results so others can take note of this alternative.

It might seem like centralization is where we are headed to those who aren't fully aware of the alternatives like Arbitrum and other solutions...though the reality is we are splitting. The unaware will KYC on CEXs while the wise will move to decentralized solutions (since they are already liquid and available).

I'll talk about my case for example, I also don't like and don't trust exchanges, but I do day trade, so for that I need to keep following the price, looking at the chart and when I see that there is a good buying opportunity I buy right away, so far there is nothing complex and it could be done on decentralized exchanges, but the problem arises that when I buy bitcoin at $30,500 for example, I need to protect myself from the risk of the price falling too much, so for that I use the stop-loss, and if I left bitcoin in my wallet, I wouldn't have this stop-loss feature and I don't know if decentralized exchanges have this feature

another point has to do with volume, binance has good volume in the btc - usdt pair for me to day trade, not to mention that it has a good interface, obviously I don't put a lot of money there and I don't put all my capital, I put a part of the money destined for me to day trade. I believe that centralized exchanges will always be superior to decentralized ones for several reasons, I myself have already mentioned these various reasons in this post. also, we can't forget that in this cryptocurrency market lately everything asks for kyc, so centralization is the way we are going

Actually there are some decentralized solutions that do provide the tools that pro traders can use, without the need to use centralized exchanges. One of these tools are GMX.io. There are also similar layer 2 solutions which offer a suite of trading tools that are just as good, if not better than CEXs. I'll build a list in Altcoin discussion and bring it here when it's done.

I agree, CEXs retain popularity for now. Though I am sure there will be a polar shift quite soon. The functionality isn't as limited as 1 year ago when it comes to high frequency DEX trading vs. High frequency CEX trading.


There are other options, trust me. They just need to be looked for.

I'll post the layer2 dex thread this week and come back when it's done

Well, you are the one who asked why use centralized exchanges and I told you that there is a certain group of people (mainly pro traders) who simply have no options if they want to do their job as efficiently as possible.

Hopefully that changes in the future and DEX will be able to offer to those type of users everything CEX can, but until then I don't see them losing popularity.

Ohhh how inconvenient, you have to wait (usually less than 15 minutes, up to an hour) for a trader to accept the trade! This makes centralized exchanges so much more superior!
/sarcasm
If you are selecting traders who have a more than established reputation, it's extremely unlikely you'll be subject to the kinds of fraud that you've mentioned. Reputable traders make a lot more from trading legitimately via their fees in comparison to a quick score. If you're choosing new users with low reputation, then of course you'll be subject to issues.

Sure, be vigilant...though it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Once you do a few P2P trades, I've found that you usually find a few traders which you know are reliable from experience, then having to be vigilant is less of a concern.


Unless you are trading more than $1-$10m, liquidity on dexes and bridges isn not an issue for the average user.


Once you establish relationships with traders, you can generally get better rates if the trade is still profitable for them. You can also go offsite if you trust them. Before that, the rates aren't that bad if you do reasonable amounts. Limitations of payment options, personally never experienced that issue though maybe it's different globally. I'm sure cash is available everywhere though.

In addition to this, P2P is not instant since there's a waiting for the other party to process the transaction before you received your exchange currency unlike CEX and DEX that offers on the spo trading that user can benefit during a price fluctuation to have a better price entry. I'm a P2P user and the only time I'm using P2P is when I need to convert fiat since that's the only way. There's a lot of danger on P2P since you need to be vigilant on who is you are dealing because they can send fake screenshot for receipt to mislead user that doesn't check actual accoutn balance.

I prefer to see the other side of the mirror - I refuse to accept to pay the price that bitcoin has on CEX's (such as Binance or Coinbase). The price that you're paying is almost the same as spot rates because you're giving away something that is priceless - your privacy. When put into perspective, I would much rather pay a premium regarding the current price of bitcoin just for the sake of preserving my privacy (while, at the same time, supporting P2P market). Do remember the title of Bitcoin Whitepaper[1] and you'll see what I'm referring to.

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[1]https://bitcoinwhitepaper.co/

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). And also the limited choices of currency lists, local banks offered by existing traders.