Topic: I want law and order back (Read 507 times)

Trump includes making righteous police stronger, and even getting rid of the thugs among them. Who cares if the thugs are gone? As long as their thuggery is gone for fear of prison, mission accomplished.

It is worthless making the "police stronger" when there are some thugs among them. Remove the thugs and stop militarising the civilian police force and remove ALL automatic/semi automatic weapons from civilians. There is NO reason why a civilian should have an automatic weapon unless they are licenced to carry such weapons in the course of some related duty and are on such duty actively when they are carrying such weapons.  Also once this is done remove ALL the same types of weapons from the police. A civilian police force should always police by consent and never be a militarised force.

The police are in a catch 22 situation due to the increasing levels of violence and if you have only a solution to make the police "stronger" then violence begets even more violence.

The root of the problem needs to be addressed and that is removing the will for violence from people as best you can through fair policies that help to give opportunities for all to thrive and prosper in a peaceful society and stop glorifying violence while educatating society from a young age that it is not okay to infringe upon anothers rights. Bullying starts in the playground and continues right up into the workplace and bullying is the root of most evils causing the bullied to seek vengeance and the bully to poison the well once they climb the social ladder as an adult.

Trump promised to make American police stronger.

Well, thank for the explanation. That makes more sense.
And indeed I agree that based on the new calculation of risks versus reward, more people will feel compeled to try to get into shoplifting. I dont know why, but it would seem to me that instead of going tough on crime, many liberal cities and states seem to be going in the contrary direction and allowing more opportunities for small crimes to take place and indirectly hurt businesses, instead of individuals.

It is almost as if they (the local government) is aware there are not enough federal funds for them to take care and offer actual opportunities to minorities and inmigrants to become a positive part of society, so they decide big corporations like Apple or big retailers like Waltmar are supposed to be the ones targeted by people desperate enough to steal to feed themselves and their families. It si quite a wacky situation if you think about it for a second: they would rather to have petty crime to rise and become generalized among the less fortunate people than increasing taxes from the rich to give to the poor.

Regardless what the alternative is, it is still controversial.

That sign was only a gag based upon a reaction to Prop 47 which "reclassifies certain theft and drug possession offenses from felonies to misdemeanors." Thanks to Prop 47, shoplifting offenses involving property valued at less than $950 are prosecuted as misdemeanors, not felonies, but they are still prosecuted. Such offenses are punishable by up to six months in county jail which due to it being a misdemeanor is highly unlikely unless you are a repeat offender meaning the better the shoplifter you are then the more likely you will keep taking risks until you are eventually caught because if it is your firt time to be caught then it is only a misdemeanor and if a first offence will at worst see you do community service but hey you can recruit plenty of others who "haven't been caught yet" to do some shoplifiting after you write the shopping list and do the recon for them. Win win for enterprising shoplifters. Lose lose for the retailer and their hard working staff if the shop goes bust.It is not a black and white situation here but a slightly more complex one like most issues. Prop 47 does not "legalise" shoplifiting but it certainly gives a better incentive to those who calculate risk versus reward based on their shoplifting strategy more so their risk tolerance once all factors are considered.

Is not every thing you guys blame blame politicians,  law and order is a collective efforts, government will make law and citizens will not obey it, sanity in our society is a collective effort starting from the political actors respecting the constitution of the nation and abide by the rule of law that guide it. Citizens have their part to play too , citizens must respect constituted authority and work with any government in power, rebel when the government is doing part not for selfish interests.  Then would have our society free from breaking laws and order. The school and parents has a role to play too for us to return to society where people respect law and order,  every behaviour starts from home,  our parents must teach good moral at home, while the school should guide the proper norms and value of the society to the child. With these would return to the society where citizens and government respect rules and other.

Sorry but that is quite wacky if true. I knew San Francisco was one of the most progressive and strange places in California, in which laws can contradict common sense, that is for sure... however, I would be help you if you shared the source of that first news about the minimum amount for the first theft offense under 950$. I don't doubt San Francisco could pull off something like that for the sake of "social inequality" among people of color and people who happen to be inmigrants, but it does not makes sense to me they also set some signs like that in your picture. To me, the sign could be rather a manifestation of protest against someone who is not in favor of such non-sense going on in their city.

because of this statement i am going to immediately assume you have never experienced discrimination in your life 

it is well known that a lot of police are dirty they sometimes arrest people due to biases (i.e profiling) meanwhile some police favor the rich so if you’re poor they are most likely to arrest you and hold you longer compared to if you were richer

so no, police is not always our friend

Shoplifting in San Francisco is illegal, however stealing less than 950 USD of value during business hours is only punishable as a misdemeanor for the first offense only. Stealing after business hours, or more than 950 USD is burglary and automatically a felony.




.....meanwhile in europe

You will be jailed if you insult r×pists, but they will walk free, even after being convicted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRTXY7gW8AAa9CB.jpg

Politics stops the progress of the country, because politicians always give priority to their own interests. Because of this, it hinders the development of the country because the political situation around the world has changed and the influence of dirty politics is spreading.  They have taken away the rights of the people to grab power.

You have mentioned before why you think Canada is doing things wrong, and your criticism is understandable, however you also need to keep in mind the context in which someone would look Canada and take it as an example to follow.
Anyone living in an actual third world country would like to see some of the security and law/order a country like Canada has to offer.
By the way, I have seen some news and videos out of the cities in California and the State in New York, certainly the situation is concerning, but you also need  to zoom out and not only to see the concentration of migrants and homeless people in those places, they happen to be the cities in which there is a high concentration of wealth. California itself could run as a country because of the money they generate.

Yes you are correct and to add this is also the reason foolish masses can be easily lockstepped into police state mentality or worse still bringing some dictatorial demagogue to power to "do something about this".

If it wasnt for the law breaker then the tyrant would be powerless. Because there are those who break G_Ds commandments there became a need for kings and judges.

Knee jerk reactions are dangerous and moderate political discourse should never overpowered by fanatics and extremists.

There are many underlying conditions for criminal behaviour from destitution to mental illness but the majority of criminals are simply dishonest and violent.

It is up to the courts to decide who deserves the most serious sentences and to ensure each type sentence gives justice for the victim and incentive for the law breaker to reform while also ensuring there is incentive for someone carrying out their heinous crime to not go from say rape to murder to leave no witnesses. For this reason the heinous crime of rape gets less sentence than murder to give the rapist the incentive not to kill his/her victim.

Experts in the field should decide the best directives but those experts should be not only intelligent but more importantly WISE.

Serious criminals should not be allowed to fraternise in prison EVER. It is laughable that criminals from the same gang or fraternity or violent criminals can associate freely within prisons. It is a mockery to their victims. At best they should be allowed to exercise alone or given the opportunity to attend classes teaching them remorse and be given a copy of the Bible,Torah,Koran or whatever faith they belong to or all of the former and left to theior silence to reflect over time. Then once they have made an honest attempt to atone for their crimes they should be afforded the opportunity of education and work.

They then should be placed in a work programme that actually is gainful providing a service or product for the society or markets and 100% of their earnings goes to their victims in compensation. If they refuse to make atonement then let the maximum sentence apply.

Am sorry to say but am not trying to go against you only clarification is what I want to make. The earlier we know this the better we are. "For the fact that monkey and gorilla claims to be in one family , while monkey is monkey and gorilla is gorilla " Africa is Africa and Canada is Canada. They are very two different countries with everything different and I don't think they can ever be the same. I said this because of what is happening in my society where the law makers are even law breakers. Our leaders here that will even struggle for us to make sure we have law and order in our society are the ones that are the most corrupt people. this police that you are even talking about is number one bribery collector. Infact, if a person becomes a police officer, even most of his family and friends don't want to be close to him anymore due to their behavior. If mistakenly fall into their trouble as little as the problem is, they will just start looking for a way to get the problem bigger so that they will have chance to collect bribe from you irrespective of who you are to them. The exception is just few out of them.

While I disagree that anyone should look to Canada as an example of anything except what not to do, I do agree that people want law and order back. California and New York are basically 3rd world countries when you’re out in public. It terrifies me that these places are the liberal blueprint of what they want our society to be…

After reading the OP I couldn't help but wonder why anyone should be scared of the police when the police is our friend. Why armed forces should be stationed at every nooks and crannies of the state, is OP advocating for a state of emergency in disguise or is he encouraging the the armed forces to intimidate civilians all in the name of maintaining peace and order?? This is obviously not the right way to maintain peace and order in a country. The people should be taught instead to cooperate with the arm forces to maintain peace and order in their environment. Obeying laws and order is the duty of every responsible citizen, offenders should be reported to the police to serve their punishment.

I doubt anyone agrees with someone getting robbed on the street or anywhere else.
But if you're actually looking for armed forces stationed on the streets with dogs ready to pop anyone that walks funny, you could always sell your shit and permanently relocate to some police state where your rights are given and taken at the whim of the "government" in power.

We a have a similar thing here in my country going on, corruption here had become so embedded in society to the point in which the police force does not even feel the shame to ask for bribery before performing their basic duties
I have not read about scientifical studies about corruption reduction, and techniques which could be applied to decrease the degree of perceived corruption within society, but if I was in charge of the police force of my city or region, they first thing I would do could have something to do with the increase of the salaries of those agents of the law, so they have little to no excuse to continue to ask for bribes to do their basic job. The second thing to do would be to enforce extreme punishments for those found to be guilty of corruption, I would go even to the extreme of get people posing as normal citizens and try to bribe or suggest bribery to the police people, as soon as the first ones start to fall and face extreme consequences for their behavior, the rest of the police teams will take note. In cases of institutional corruption, the punishments need to send a message to those even considering to break the law.

Smile 😊 from your tone of writing, you look like an an African. And if you want the African police to behave like the Canadian Police 🚨 then our police force should stop collecting bribe on the streets, roads and even in their offices. How can a police officer stand on the road and collecting money from market people, and transport and private vehicles on the road. In the advanced countries they have standard police force and not like the once we have in the African countries that full with corruption.

Op the government can't set a standard police force in your country because they are all corrupt leaders.

Government are trying their best in making law and order enforcement, this is to help have everything happening in the society under a coordinate environment and well regulated by them, we also have to join in support of all these by giving the government the required help needed by making things works out, this start with how we live and behave in the society, what we do and the responsibility we take for ourself in seeing things work out for everyone in the society living together.

I think the problem depends on many factors, and I fully support the law's intervention in social problems, but it is not enough to deter people regardless of their wrongdoing. Raise everyone's awareness from the beginning, don't let things appear and create new problems looking for excuses from some solution, but that's easy to say because by nature we inherently have all different personalities. So society from ancient times until now is still the same. Not everyone is born with the fullness they need, so different lessons in life always appear. I myself also had my phone stolen while on the way home, but I could only blame myself and think about how pitiful those thieves were. Anyway, each different life situation has many things that we cannot have a general template for.