ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE - page 46.

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on July 26, 2012, 09:50:41 PM

Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 02:35:39 PM

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on July 20, 2012, 02:00:25 PM

So after 20:00 GMT each day, I lose any record that shows my actual cost basis? Not even in Logs?

It's all logged of course, and I'm going to deploy a more advanced Logs page which would show your trades history, executed orders, etc.

Are those logs misreporting the transaction type? It looks like it is reporting "sell" as the type when a "buy" is what occurred, and vice-versa.

Hmm ... now it is reporting it correctly for new trades. That got fixed then, or am I misreading the log?

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 02:35:39 PM

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on July 20, 2012, 02:00:25 PM

So after 20:00 GMT each day, I lose any record that shows my actual cost basis? Not even in Logs?

It's all logged of course, and I'm going to deploy a more advanced Logs page which would show your trades history, executed orders, etc.

Are those logs misreporting the transaction type? It looks like it is reporting "sell" as the type when a "buy" is what occurred, and vice-versa.

Fireball

hero member

Activity: 674

Merit: 500

Quote from: FreeMoney on July 20, 2012, 01:34:32 PM

Either way 5% is way too tight for bitcoin in december right now.

5% during one trading session relative to the closing price of the previous session. Even that seems to be too tight considering recent volatility.

Fireball

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Activity: 674

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on July 20, 2012, 02:00:25 PM

So after 20:00 GMT each day, I lose any record that shows my actual cost basis? Not even in Logs?

It's all logged of course, and I'm going to deploy a more advanced Logs page which would show your trades history, executed orders, etc.

Stephen Gornick

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1010

Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 12:26:54 PM

Also, after clearing at 20:00 GMT everyday, if you have open positions, a variation margin is transferred depending on the market price to your account, and "execution price" for this position will be set to the price of the last clearing.

So after 20:00 GMT each day, I lose any record that shows my actual cost basis? Not even in Logs?

Ichthyo

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Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 12:30:18 PM

The trading range limitation is part of the marginal system which prevents market crashes due to margin calls. By limiting the price movement to a certain price range, a maximum loss could be estimated and protective measures added *before* the market crashes due to margin call sell off.

Quote from: FreeMoney on July 20, 2012, 01:34:32 PM

So the theory is that people will make a bid inside of the range instead of just making no bid at all?

Because forcing it to stay in a range where no one wants to bid won't help you cash people out at all. When you run out of liquidity inside the range that's it, 0 way to force close anyone out.

Either way 5% is way too tight for bitcoin in december right now.

take for example the situation yesterday: the price dipped, and my short position became profiable. But no one really expects the price to stay down for a long time. The whole reason I'd like to open such a short position in that situation is to be able to (partially) hedge my BTC positions, without needing to sell off. Thus, obviouisly, I really want to take the gains when I think the trend will turn around.

But, since you state that feature is mainly in place as a protective means to prevent an avalanche of margin calls, why not allowing to lift that limitation manually, given an account has enough margin (or even can make additional gains right now)?

Just a proposal...

Ichthyo

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Quote from: Ichthyo on July 19, 2012, 09:08:30 PM

Now, I've issued a "buy market" for 1 contract. But, surprisingly I got the following execution, according to the "orders" pane at the bottom

Quote

5136 07/20 03:38 BUZ2 Buy MKT Filled 9.5863 1 0

Thus I got an execution a the worst possible price, while there are lots of matching sell orders with a way better price. For example, why isn't my buy order matched with one of the sells at 8.67?

Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 12:26:54 PM

This is often confusing, and I should perhaps just hide the order "price" if the type of that order is "market", because this is not the price at which your order was executed. It is price "up to which" you agree to buy. Market orders will always start matching from the best order in the orderbook.

OK thanks for the clarification!

Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 12:26:54 PM

The resulting price is written in your "Balances" window, and that's what matters.

for a single order that might be ok, but it doesn't help when increasing / or decresing an allready opened position. Of course then the value in the "Balances" window will be the effective average, yet still I'd appreciate to be able to see what executions I got.

It sounds perfectly logical to display the limit price, as long as an order isn't filled. But when it got filled, why not simply changing that value to the actual price accieved?

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

Quote from: Fireball on July 20, 2012, 12:30:18 PM

Quote from: Ichthyo on July 19, 2012, 09:22:35 PM

please excuse my uneducated question... but what is the reasoning behind imposing a range limitation on the orders I can place. Again, in the situation showed above, the range is 8.6733 - 9.5863

Meanwhile the BTC rate has dropped significantly, and the futures market has adjusted. So, why preventing me from placing a buy offer at, say, 7.81 My position is profitable right now, and i'd like to close out partially and take some of the gains right now. Can someone please explain how this is supposed to work?

It is fine, it is obvious to me because I have many years of trading experience, however it might not be trivial for those who never dealt with exchanges.

The trading range limitation is part of the marginal system which prevents market crashes due to margin calls. By limiting the price movement to a certain price range, a maximum loss could be estimated and protective measures added *before* the market crashes due to margin call sell off.

So the theory is that people will make a bid inside of the range instead of just making no bid at all?

Because forcing it to stay in a range where no one wants to bid won't help you cash people out at all. When you run out of liquidity inside the range that's it, 0 way to force close anyone out.

Either way 5% is way too tight for bitcoin in december right now.

EnergyVampire

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Fireball

The trading range limitation is part of the marginal system which prevents market crashes due to margin calls. By limiting the price movement to a certain price range, a maximum loss could be estimated and protective measures added *before* the market crashes due to margin call sell off.

Oh, bummer! I didn't see this very important detail on your site: "Maximum change within one trading session: 5% in both directions."

I can see the new thread titles already: "WTF? Why do I get a Limit Down error at ICBit.se?! I need to GTFO now..." Cheesy

Edit: Yes, I'm against circuit breakers.

ThePok

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and he makes more monney this way Grin

Or is the swap feefree?

Fireball

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Activity: 674

Merit: 500

Quote from: Ichthyo on July 19, 2012, 09:22:35 PM

please excuse my uneducated question... but what is the reasoning behind imposing a range limitation on the orders I can place. Again, in the situation showed above, the range is 8.6733 - 9.5863

Meanwhile the BTC rate has dropped significantly, and the futures market has adjusted. So, why preventing me from placing a buy offer at, say, 7.81 My position is profitable right now, and i'd like to close out partially and take some of the gains right now. Can someone please explain how this is supposed to work?

It is fine, it is obvious to me because I have many years of trading experience, however it might not be trivial for those who never dealt with exchanges.

The trading range limitation is part of the marginal system which prevents market crashes due to margin calls. By limiting the price movement to a certain price range, a maximum loss could be estimated and protective measures added *before* the market crashes due to margin call sell off.

Fireball

hero member

Activity: 674

Merit: 500

Quote from: Ichthyo on July 19, 2012, 09:15:09 PM

....in continuation of the above:

next thing I tried to issue a "sell market" for 1 contract.
I noticed that seemingly my order got added to the orderbook position at 8.6733, since there are now 22 sells offered at that rate. But I can't find my order anywhere in the "your orders" pane. It is not filled yet, correct? For example, when I now wanted to cancel that order, how can this be achieved without that order being visible?

Sometimes there is a connection issue, so please just refresh the whole page if you suspect something didn't update as it should.

Fireball

hero member

Activity: 674

Merit: 500

Quote from: Ichthyo on July 19, 2012, 09:08:30 PM

can someone please help me understand why my trade got executed this way?
I'm still fighting in order to understand how the trading works exactly.
Range 8.6733 - 9.5863

Now, I've issued a "buy market" for 1 contract. But, surprisingly I got the following execution, according to the "orders" pane at the bottom

Quote

5136 07/20 03:38 BUZ2 Buy MKT Filled 9.5863 1 0

Thus I got an execution a the worst possible price, while there are lots of matching sell orders with a way better price. For example, why isn't my buy order matched with one of the sells at 8.67?

This is often confusing, and I should perhaps just hide the order "price" if the type of that order is "market", because this is not the price at which your order was executed. It is price "up to which" you agree to buy. Market orders will always start matching from the best order in the orderbook.

The resulting price is written in your "Balances" window, and that's what matters. Also, after clearing at 20:00 GMT everyday, if you have open positions, a variation margin is transferred depending on the market price to your account, and "execution price" for this position will be set to the price of the last clearing.

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

further questions -- hopefully someone can explain that

how is the "initial margin" calculated?
in this column (initial margin), there is an entry in each row. What does that mean?
so what is my actual margin available for trading? Is it the value in the "bitcoins" row or in the "BUZ2" row?
and what is the maintenance level, at which level do I get a margin call, and what exactly happens then?

thanks for any clarification

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

please excuse my uneducated question... but what is the reasoning behind imposing a range limitation on the orders I can place. Again, in the situation showed above, the range is 8.6733 - 9.5863

Meanwhile the BTC rate has dropped significantly, and the futures market has adjusted. So, why preventing me from placing a buy offer at, say, 7.81 My position is profitable right now, and i'd like to close out partially and take some of the gains right now. Can someone please explain how this is supposed to work?

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

....in continuation of the above:

next thing I tried to issue a "sell market" for 1 contract.
I noticed that seemingly my order got added to the orderbook position at 8.6733, since there are now 22 sells offered at that rate. But I can't find my order anywhere in the "your orders" pane. It is not filled yet, correct? For example, when I now wanted to cancel that order, how can this be achieved without that order being visible?

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Hello

can someone please help me understand why my trade got executed this way?
I'm still fighting in order to understand how the trading works exactly.

Right now, the orderbook is as follows

Quote

Order book (BUZ2)
Sell    Price    Buy
2   9.58
25   9.1958
25   9.1775
25   9.1592
21   8.6733
   7.8   1
   7.05   1
   7   1
   6.9   1
   6.8312   1
Range 8.6733 - 9.5863

Now, I've issued a "buy market" for 1 contract. But, surprisingly I got the following execution, according to the "orders" pane at the bottom

Quote

5136 07/20 03:38 BUZ2 Buy MKT Filled 9.5863 1 0

Thus I got an execution a the worst possible price, while there are lots of matching sell orders with a way better price. For example, why isn't my buy order matched with one of the sells at 8.67?

EnergyVampire

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: randomguy7

Do you use Windows XP and haven't done any updates for quite some time? Then you need to update to get the root keys of the CA which signed the used certificate. Or go to startssl.com and install the CA root key manually into FF or whatever you use.

I am not using Windows but Intersango.com, Bitmit.net and a couple other sites I visit also have StartCom as CA and I don't get the warnings.

Well, the certificate expires in 10 days or so, maybe the warnings will go away when it's renewed. *shrugs*

randomguy7

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Activity: 527

Merit: 500

Quote from: EnergyVampire on July 19, 2012, 09:04:02 AM

Quote from: Fireball on July 18, 2012, 05:33:53 PM

Quote from: EnergyVampire on July 18, 2012, 12:37:16 PM

I'm getting an "Insecure Connection" warning when visiting https://icbit.se , what's up?

That's strange, certificate details are correct, and I am not getting the warning. What's your browser?

I tried IceWeasel, FireFox, and Opera. I get warnings from all 3 of them.

Do you use Windows XP and haven't done any updates for quite some time? Then you need to update to get the root keys of the CA which signed the used certificate. Or go to startssl.com and install the CA root key manually into FF or whatever you use.

EnergyVampire

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Fireball on July 18, 2012, 05:33:53 PM

Quote from: EnergyVampire on July 18, 2012, 12:37:16 PM

I'm getting an "Insecure Connection" warning when visiting https://icbit.se , what's up?

That's strange, certificate details are correct, and I am not getting the warning. What's your browser?

I tried IceWeasel, FireFox, and Opera. I get warnings from all 3 of them.

Topic: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE - page 46. (Read 97703 times)