Idea: Investing in rental properties as a group using bitcoins?

Lorenzo

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Quote from: ShetKid on April 15, 2015, 04:33:17 AM

Like others pointed out, this won't actually work with BTC. However one solution might be to convert the BTC into fiat, and go with the legal way, and then convert the fiat to btc while sending the revenue.

This is still a good use of bitcoin, just that you might still have a little legal problem. ANd the investors, will have to lock on to the current price of the btc for a few years .

Yup, that was pretty much what I had in mind:

Quote from: Lorenzo on April 11, 2015, 03:05:52 AM

The transactions would be done in Bitcoin but they would need to be converted to fiat since not many people accept BTC for buying/selling homes. Rent payments would also be paid in fiat of course so the biggest potential downside would be the risk that the BTC price shoots up. Since everything is done in fiat, you would have gained less money than you would have if you had just held onto your coins. Conversely, if the BTC price continues falling then you would have gained more money.

By "transactions", I was specifically referring to the initial investment and returns. It probably wasn't the best word to describe it since the real-world transactions in the middle (i.e. buying the house and rent payments) would all be done in fiat.

ShetKid

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Like others pointed out, this won't actually work with BTC. However one solution might be to convert the BTC into fiat, and go with the legal way, and then convert the fiat to btc while sending the revenue.

This is still a good use of bitcoin, just that you might still have a little legal problem. ANd the investors, will have to lock on to the current price of the btc for a few years .

Lorenzo

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitbets on April 11, 2015, 06:50:09 AM

I think I remember someone on these forums was promoting some kind of group land purchase,

with the idea that investors could all move to the land and live in peace and harmony in the

country in mexico, I think it was, where people could continue mining bitcoins too,

and make eco-houses or mud-huts or whatever.

Not certain of what I just wrote, I will try to find that thread(s) and give a link here.

update: found an old thread about someone thinking of creating a Bitcoin Country
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-nation-serious-a-new-country-about-bitcoin-269059
I know it isn't quite what op was discussing, but it is land purchasing of sorts

And a few threads here wanted to create a Bitcoin Town
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-build-a-town-bitcoin-town-224478
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-town-lets-make-the-future-come-to-us-216139
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mason-town-a-town-for-bitcoin-the-future-235081

Bitcoin Island thread
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-island-82060

Real estate investment thread
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rentalstarter-a-midwest-real-estate-investment-company-215230

Smart Property Trust
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regulated-smart-property-trust-spt-252474

REIcoin - The asset backed, income producing crypto
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-rei-reicoin-the-asset-backed-income-producing-crypto-409703

Most of the above are from 2013, some from 2014 or 2012.
There are likely other ones I didnt mention.
It would be nice to have a bigger list of them I was thinking, so I put them here in your thread

Interesting threads. The last three are the most similar to what I originally had in mind. Out of those three, the first two were posted in mid 2013 so I'm guessing that any investments made back then would have lost value compared to simply holding onto your coins.

Other than the issue of trust which others here have already mentioned, the biggest obstacles would probably be legal in nature.

Quote from: crazyivan on April 11, 2015, 12:25:56 PM

Quote from: Lorenzo on April 11, 2015, 03:05:52 AM

Would there be any interest in a collective fund that invests in real estate as a rental investment? Where I'm from, a typical real estate investment yields a profit of 10-15% per annum. Take away things like taxes, property management fees, insurance, and percentage of time where the property (or collection of properties) remains vacant, then you're probably looking at the lower end of that range.

The transactions would be done in Bitcoin but they would need to be converted to fiat since not many people accept BTC for buying/selling homes. Rent payments would also be paid in fiat of course so the biggest potential downside would be the risk that the BTC price shoots up. Since everything is done in fiat, you would have gained less money than you would have if you had just held onto your coins. Conversely, if the BTC price continues falling then you would have gained more money.

Does a service like this already exist? Would there be any interest in the community for something like this?

EDIT: Not sure where to post this thread. I did a search for some search terms that might bring up similar topics but the only results that came up where people selling their homes.

This is a nice idea but you do have one major issue, consumer protection. We are talking about a lot of BTC here and who s going to guarantee your clients you simply do not run away with the money.

Quote from: ajareselde on April 11, 2015, 10:24:53 PM

Quote from: crazyivan on April 11, 2015, 12:25:56 PM

This is a nice idea but you do have one major issue, consumer protection. We are talking about a lot of BTC here and who s going to guarantee your clients you simply do not run away with the money.

My thoughts exactly, where ever there is an "investment opportunity" there will be a pack of scammer waiting for their scheme, and if you try to be honest
and go revealing everyones identity, then you have a legal trouble, since every "fund" that is to make a profit needs to also pay taxes...
Its definetly not a bad idea, but its sure will be hard to make something like this work for a longer period of time.

cheers

Good point. Usually the solution would be to use an escrow. However, since one of the conditions is to actually purchase the property and doing that requires control over the funds, I don't see how an escrow would work unless the funds are released beforehand (which would defeat the purpose of using an escrow).

ajareselde

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Quote from: crazyivan on April 11, 2015, 12:25:56 PM

This is a nice idea but you do have one major issue, consumer protection. We are talking about a lot of BTC here and who s going to guarantee your clients you simply do not run away with the money.

My thoughts exactly, where ever there is an "investment opportunity" there will be a pack of scammer waiting for their scheme, and if you try to be honest
and go revealing everyones identity, then you have a legal trouble, since every "fund" that is to make a profit needs to also pay taxes...
Its definetly not a bad idea, but its sure will be hard to make something like this work for a longer period of time.

cheers

crazyivan

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Merit: 1007

DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!

Quote from: Lorenzo on April 11, 2015, 03:05:52 AM

Would there be any interest in a collective fund that invests in real estate as a rental investment? Where I'm from, a typical real estate investment yields a profit of 10-15% per annum. Take away things like taxes, property management fees, insurance, and percentage of time where the property (or collection of properties) remains vacant, then you're probably looking at the lower end of that range.

The transactions would be done in Bitcoin but they would need to be converted to fiat since not many people accept BTC for buying/selling homes. Rent payments would also be paid in fiat of course so the biggest potential downside would be the risk that the BTC price shoots up. Since everything is done in fiat, you would have gained less money than you would have if you had just held onto your coins. Conversely, if the BTC price continues falling then you would have gained more money.

Does a service like this already exist? Would there be any interest in the community for something like this?

EDIT: Not sure where to post this thread. I did a search for some search terms that might bring up similar topics but the only results that came up where people selling their homes.

This is a nice idea but you do have one major issue, consumer protection. We are talking about a lot of BTC here and who s going to guarantee your clients you simply do not run away with the money.

bitbets

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

I think I remember someone on these forums was promoting some kind of group land purchase,

with the idea that investors could all move to the land and live in peace and harmony in the

country in mexico, I think it was, where people could continue mining bitcoins too,

and make eco-houses or mud-huts or whatever.

Not certain of what I just wrote, I will try to find that thread(s) and give a link here.

update: found an old thread about someone thinking of creating a Bitcoin Country
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-nation-serious-a-new-country-about-bitcoin-269059
I know it isn't quite what op was discussing, but it is land purchasing of sorts

And a few threads here wanted to create a Bitcoin Town
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-build-a-town-bitcoin-town-224478
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-town-lets-make-the-future-come-to-us-216139
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mason-town-a-town-for-bitcoin-the-future-235081

Bitcoin Island thread
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-island-82060

Real estate investment thread
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rentalstarter-a-midwest-real-estate-investment-company-215230

Smart Property Trust
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regulated-smart-property-trust-spt-252474

REIcoin - The asset backed, income producing crypto
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-rei-reicoin-the-asset-backed-income-producing-crypto-409703

Most of the above are from 2013, some from 2014 or 2012.
There are likely other ones I didnt mention.
It would be nice to have a bigger list of them I was thinking, so I put them here in your thread

Lorenzo

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Would there be any interest in a collective fund that invests in real estate as a rental investment? Where I'm from, a typical real estate investment yields a profit of 10-15% per annum. Take away things like taxes, property management fees, insurance, and percentage of time where the property (or collection of properties) remains vacant, then you're probably looking at the lower end of that range.

The transactions would be done in Bitcoin but they would need to be converted to fiat since not many people accept BTC for buying/selling homes. Rent payments would also be paid in fiat of course so the biggest potential downside would be the risk that the BTC price shoots up. Since everything is done in fiat, you would have gained less money than you would have if you had just held onto your coins. Conversely, if the BTC price continues falling then you would have gained more money.

Does a service like this already exist? Would there be any interest in the community for something like this?

EDIT: Not sure where to post this thread. I did a search for some search terms that might bring up similar topics but the only results that came up where people selling their homes.

Topic: Idea: Investing in rental properties as a group using bitcoins? (Read 430 times)