Topic: If Bitcoin ever did go completely mainstream... (Read 4375 times)

we can be rich111

sorry for a stereotype i might next say, but in countries like russia. vodka has a value to use as trade between individuals, it has done for years. if you wanted your car fixed, you could go to a garage and give the mechanic a bottle of vodka to cover his labor and it would work.

that being said russian government still have not lost control of their FIAT holding, even when vodka is deemed more valuable and useful then fiat.

i do not think fiat will disappear, just that a new government will be voted in with new laws and new promises, they may even reprint a new banknote worded differently. but the government will not just give up.

the thing to think about is trying to fight government to drop their control of FIAT is flawed and futile. its basically their intellectual property licenced for public use. we do not own FIAT we are just allowed to use it.

what we can do though is highlight that FIAT is not the only choice. many people do not know better and think that FIAT is the only way to trade for goods and services. so instead of trying to fight control of FIAT from our armchair army. we need to make bitcoin as consumer friendly, reliable and robust far beyond what FIAT is. So that it can compete WITH fiat, and not against.

we need to get to a point where if employers wanted to pay their staff in satoshi's, they can. but the struggle is not government power that is to blame, its real world opinions of what bitcoin is used for that needs to change. that is the true first hurdle.

the government blame is at the 3rd or 4th hurdle. so lets not let the government be an excuse to not get bitcoin some positive notoriety.

we want a professional currency that stand up against FIAT and exceeds it in every way imaginable. so help get bitcoin to have a more positive image, for merchants and consumers. dont worry about government control just yet.

and if you are going to go on any news reports or make some real world press highlighting bitcoin. DO NOT use max keisers PR guy.. Max Keiser is currently losing his reputation with his sheep noises sounding like a loonytoon on a international news station. that is not what we want.

that being said, i personally hold the opinion that anonymous illecit traders out number the legitimate traders so getting bitcoins bad press swept under the rug is a big first hurdle. instead im considering litecoin as viable option. so far it is clean and has no bad press.

When giving this some good thought, government may seem to control fiat currency (issue, taxes etc), but it is not in charge of the most important element: trust. In fact, when approached differently, fiat is controlled by the people and the people alone. If trust ever leaves fiat, it is game over for fiat, regardless of the 'control' of government.

Of course, the same applies to Bitcoin.

ok so i put some numbers together..
based on the american national minimum wage, working 40 hours gives an income of $290 a week.
so i see this as a fair minimum weekly income.
i have used this to calculate using the FIAT commodity prices to show what the price would be if it equated to 'labor time'.



so imagine you quit your real life job, and your only income was from bitcoin mining. you would still want to know that the percentage of time you put in eachweek in your old job, still roughly gets you the same products and lifestyle you get purely on bitcoin.

for example GOLD works out as just over 6 weeks worth of income for a guy on minimum wage to buy a troy ounce, and silver works out as just 4.64 hours (roughly) to buy a troy ounce.

now the next step is to figure out the 'international' average income of bitcoins. but for now whether you own a rig-farm or just a couple GPU's, ask yourself this question.

how many coins do you get rewarded in a week. divide that number by 100. then multiply it by the numbers in the column %weekly income. so you can work out how many bitcoins it would cost in a non FIAT world to get these commodities. im still working on a website so you just put in your weekly bitcoin reward and it converts it into commodity prices.

so lets make it simple, u solo mine and u only solve 2 blocks a week giving you 100BTC.

well it would cost you just over 11 BTC for a silver ounce and 606 BTC for a gold ounce.

Thanks for the correction.

It's not another halving, or a special one, it's just the first (regular) halving. Block number 210,000 is expected to be mined sometime in December of this year (which is just under four years after the Bitcoin network became operational).

Taxes would change for one.

Obscure taxes would be impossible to claim in a BTC world as it is too easy to hide.

Instead things easily controlled like property and personal permits/IDs would be taxed with flat taxes. If you can not pay those things will be claimed by the government.
The tax level would then be determined in such a way that government take-overs become rare enough that it does not cause public dissent.

Tall office buildings and stores would be taxed more than farmland.

Income and VAT taxes might disappear or be levied only on those who don't hide well enough.


Governments could still improve as such taxes would create a lot of political pressure on what the taxes are spent on - as opposed to inflation which is invisible and flies more under the public radar.
Massive bailouts and debt would simply become impossible.

On the other hand rich people may selfishly benefit from a flat tax rate and the ease with which they could hide wealth - this however may turn out fine if governments in turn are pressured into spending more on the poor and middle class to justify taxes, instead of rich men's subsidies.

It does greatly matter....
In case of online games the ingame currency is more broadly used than dollars. The scenario I was proposing is one where bitcoin would be more broadly used than dollars for some niche market, at least within the community it is used for.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Blocks


Also:



I heard another "halving" will start in December.

yeah but this list is bullshit, it consists of the people the elite want us to think control the wealth. If you don't think Putin and HW Bush have way more money than Bill Gates, you are nuts.

that's my 0.02 BTC anyway.

i might make a website that is like a bitcoin commodity listing. im right now trying to find live data on how many new coins / rewards are made a hour/day /week or whatever. searching the pool stats pages for average income seems to be the starting stage of working out a minimum wage to then get some prices rolling from that.

e.g time to reward found / active users = average user income.

still doing some maths to find a fair income calculation

I think the same thinking could be passed along to the world. If you want, make a site that reflects your idea. Make a directory with a voting system for every part of the world.

It would show what people in their part of the world would pay in bitcoin for anything, just like you said, a banana for "X" or rent for "YYY".

Let me know if you do it, please.

subjective theory. is about supply and demand which is what a retailer would work out as the value.. EG reccommended retail price which can be anything from my 500th of BTC commodity price to a GUESSSSSSSSSS i made of the retail price of 50th.

that 50th (0.02btc) could be any number.

but to get to the first step of globalising BTC u need to get commodity prices sorted.

as for the labor theory.. thats based on setting wage based on how much production can be done..

which is where slavery started.. but in modern days a minimum wage needs to be set to avoid the slavery days of distant decades we have tried to forget about. and then base product price on those costs. note i said theories. not rules

thus making the world a fairer place.

but hey everyone has their own opinion.. i personally dont want to be the slave lord whipping people so i can be rich at the expense of others. i want an equal world where if im in control of my money i can help other people out.. others have the wannabe rich mentality..

money in the pocket is not as valuable as the happiness in your face.

why use rules and theories already in existance, which have resulted in the current epic failure of current economic status of FIAT. we can set our own theories on how to create value

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

At least read Subjective theory of value and Labor theory of value, then come back.

i look forward to the day u can buy a banana for X bitcoin and pay ur rent with YYY bitcoin. with no mention of FIAT in the trade talk at all..

bitcoin would need to develop a commodity pricing index to use as a comparison for true btc value to be able to go main stream.
the first step is setting a minimum/average wage and look at how much product can be made in that time to get a cost value.

EG how much banana was picked from the tree in a day divided by a days worth of minimum wage = banana costs

EG if u can mine 1BTC a day thats ur daily wage.. if someone can pick 500 banana's in a day then a single banana would be worth 500th of a bitcoin(0.002) for that banana picker.

which by the time food distributors get all the banana's to shops and all the profit/expenses are calculated in bitcoins a banana might end up being worth 50th of a bitcoin..(0.02) based on each level of the production/delivery/retailer getting a profit which would still be value.

which if using those same maths in FIAT terms
US average minimum wage $7.25 =15c banana
UK average minimum wage £6.19 =12p banana

I dont half look forward to that "I told you so" day - the amount of stick I get for being into "magic internet money" is stupid lol - be nice to say "I told you it was awesome".

It does't matter, if it happened as you said (game items for bitcoin), then you can know the exchange rate between dollars and bitcoin by knowing the price in dollars of the game items. Dollars, and currency in general are used as the common denominator because it is a more widespread commodity than game items. That's the function of money, to serve as a means of comparison.

Its not just potentially. Its the "the law of diffusion of innovation". That is how it works.

I just wrote that because I can't think of any.
I'm open to suggestions... and I mean it.

BTW, the libertarian party in the US is polling at about 10%, so potentially - assuming Bitcoin can become widespread among libertarians - Bitcoin is not that far away from mass adoption.